I am considering Pattern 99 blades, but there's one thing that might sway my decision. I believe that they have a shorter stanchion that helps stability with jump landings.
I'd like to know HOW tall the stanchions are in real life. If you own a set of Pattern 99 blades, could you measure the stanchion height at both the front and at the rear stanchions?
Even a simple ruler can be used for this rough measurement. No need for expensive measuring devices. Place one end on the bottom of the boot at center of the stanchion locations, and view level with the blade edge to see how high it is.
This shows the rear stanchion being measured...
(http://www.afterness.com/skating/images/stanchion_measurement-1-800px.jpg)
Thanks in advance!
p.s. Please add what length your blade is if you know that. It's probably stamped somewhere on the blade.
I have 10" Patt 99's and Gold Seals, but they've been sharpened many times. Won't the measurement from sole to blade edge be affected by how much sharpening has been done?
Both 10" Patt 99 stanchions are 1-5/8" high.
The 10" Gold Seals are 1-3/4" high at both stanchions.
Just an FYI: I never liked the Patt 99's because the blade tail felt shorter than the Gold Seals. I rocked off the back of the blade any number of times.
I just measured both blades and, sure enough, the Patt 99 drag-pick-to-blade-tail measure is a a full 1/4" shorter than the Gold Seals.
The Patt 99 stanchions themselves aren't as wide (front to back) as the Gold Seals but the plates are the same size and the stanchions are centered in the same spot.
The Gold Seal plates are solid at the front, whereas the Patt 99's have a cutout in the middle.
The toe picks on the Patt 99 are huge at the top and bottom, much bigger than the Gold Seals' profile.
Thanks for taking time for the measurements.
Sharpening WILL have an effect, but the max it can have is about 1/8". Most skaters toss blades when the chrome relief is gone, and that's about 1/8" of wear max.
I knew that this wouldn't be a precision measurement, but ballpark is all that I need. The Gold Seals look to be in the Coronation Ace range, while the P99 are about 1/8" shorter height-wise. That jives with the marketing position for these blades.
It raises some questions about how much stanchion height that I need and if these would be suitable. I'm hitting the edge of my boot now with the Aces.
My kid has been in gold seals for a few years. That extra stanchion height helps her not 'bottom out' the boot during deep edges. Her boot is extra wide up front and she needs a little extra height off the ice.
Also, her coach wants all of her skaters in gold seals once they start working on axel. I've heard the gold seal requires tighter technique for jumps because it is a little curvier and the picks are less aggressive. Not sure if that is true (because it seems like figure skating equipment holds much myth). As I understand it, the idea is that if you are learning, you can't slop or cheat through a jump as well in a gold seal. They are also great for spinning and footwork - my daughter's spins definitely improved after the initial adjustment of a new blade.
But, I do wonder if my daughter would prefer the pattern 99's over gold seals because she definitely liked the MK Pro's better than the Coro Aces - distinctly so. I would be so curious as to if the coro cce really does line up better with the gold seal or if the MK pro does. I've heard both theories - again all that myth. I'm finding your blade measurements so interesting!
Despite previously cheering you on to buy P99s, I've changed my mind, and if I were you I wouldn't do it unless you can find a good unicorn pair on ebay for cheap or something. They seem to be quite flat compared to other high level blades, and the lower stanchions would I think be a poor fit for your deep edges. They cost too much to just experiment with.
A flatter rocker is something that I have grown to prefer. My current blades measure to be an 8' main rocker because sharpenings over the years. The flatter spin radius of the MK Pro compared to the new-style Coronation Aces is something that I also prefer. In other words, I want a blade that acts like my old worn-out one because I'm used to them.
However shorter stanchions on P99 blades are something that I might not like. I might be able to add ~1/8" of shim material between each blade and the boot soles when mounting to alleviate that. That would bring them in line with what I am used to.
For me, they are still on the table.
Today I placed an order for some Pattern 99 blades to test. I'll start a new thread once they arrive.
Quote from: Bill_S on November 20, 2019, 01:28:27 PM
Today I placed an order for some Pattern 99 blades to test. I'll start a new thread once they arrive.
Is a Gold Seal lurking around the corner? Now that you have a Wissota, and are not limited by the Pro-Filer, you can complete the magic square: Coronation Ace; MK Pro; P99; Gold Seal.
I don't know. I didn't expect to go this far testing blades to replace my old ones.
Regardless, I have had fun working with them along the way.
Quote from: Bill_S on November 21, 2019, 08:03:42 AM
I don't know. I didn't expect to go this far testing blades to replace my old ones.
Regardless, I have had fun working with them along the way.
I wonder if "blade addiction" is a recognized medical disorder? :-)
Well, if there is a support group, this is it. ;)
Quote from: Bill_S on November 21, 2019, 08:26:20 AM
Well, if there is a support group, this is it. ;)
Not quite. This group is egging you on to feed your addiction, not curb it.
Quote from: tstop4me on November 21, 2019, 08:46:52 AM
Not quite. This group is egging you on to feed your addiction, not curb it.
;D ;D ;D :WS: :BS:
Quote from: tstop4me on November 21, 2019, 08:46:52 AM
Not quite. This group is egging you on to feed your addiction, not curb it.
Ha! Got me!
Tstop is right. You'll get support from us, but not the healthy kind I'm afraid. Still, there's worse addictions, we can help you justify yours, and there's a solid market for the fruits of your labor.
You're a research scientist at heart, without a grant. Just don't go all breaking bad on us.
... and so here we all are ...
<<click to enlarge>>
"...it's been 7 days..." Too funny!
Hmm, I gather that I've got a few more blades to get through before I'm done. Gold Seal gets mentioned a lot.
The house is starting to look like a pro shop.
Because of severe peer pressure on this board, I ordered some Gold Seals. ;D ;D
I found a pair on Ebay in my size that were inexpensive (as Gold Seals go).
They were sold by an individual, who claimed to have skated on them just 3 times, sharpened once. From the photos, the chrome relief height looked good, bolstering the seller's claim of light usage.
I'll put them into the ring with the Pattern 99 blades and do a comparison when I get everything in house.
My old boot soles are starting to look like Swiss cheese from all the different blade mounting holes. Old 10-1/2" Coronation Aces, new 10-1/4" Coronation Aces, MK Professionals, Jackson Ultima Protege, Eclipse Dance - did I leave anything out?
Quote from: Bill_S on November 23, 2019, 05:37:43 PM
Because of severe peer pressure on this board, I ordered some Gold Seals. ;D ;D
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Can we now request you start trying out different models of boots? I think that would be super helpful. I've been wondering lately about the physics of a particular blade on different brands/models of boots.
After this, I'm passing the baton to someone else! Who'll be the next volunteer?
I've already done the boot brigade - Klingbeil, Jackson, SP-Teri and Harlick. Each brand had its own fitting issues. I'm tempted to try Avanta next year.
Quote from: Bill_S on November 23, 2019, 05:37:43 PM
Because of severe peer pressure on this board, I ordered some Gold Seals. ;D ;D
I found a pair on Ebay in my size that were inexpensive (as Gold Seals go).
Hopefully the profile is intact! Can't wait for your feed back.
Your poor poor boots....they're being real troopers, eh?
Quote from: FigureSpins on November 25, 2019, 10:27:12 AM
I've already done the boot brigade - Klingbeil, Jackson, SP-Teri and Harlick. Each brand had its own fitting issues. I'm tempted to try Avanta next year.
Dooooo eeeeet! I need to know more about Avanta.
But what I meant was how a particular blade feels on one boot may be different from how it feels in another. For example, I have Jackson Debuts and they have a high heel (higher with wedges). And a Mark IV blade which I believe has high stanchions but a pretty flat rocker. How different would it feel to switch to Riedell and a low heel, and Coro Ace with slightly lower stanchions but rounder rocker? It would be interesting to develop something where we could recommend certain boot/blade combos or combos to avoid.
The Pattern 99 blades are in hand. The Gold Seals are scheduled for tomorrow.
Look for a comparison soon! I'll create a new thread when I get information.
BTW, the OSU Ice Rink, despite its wretched parking situation, is THE place for fantastic blade prices. They just plain KILL Kinzie's Closet on price for high-end MK and Wilson blades.
There's that pesky state sales tax to consider, but even with that you can still save $$$$$ money if you can drive to OSU in Columbus. I ordered the Pattern 99 blades over the phone on Wednesday, then picked them up from the rink today.
Too bad they don't ship.
Really hanging out for your comparison between MK Pros and Pattern99s. Have you got up close to Phantoms yet? I'm in the process of ordering new boots and currently skating on completely used up MK Pros. Wondering if Phantoms or Pattern99s might be worth springing for this time.
(And we are totally not enablers ;D)
Quote from: Bill_S on November 20, 2019, 01:28:27 PM
Today I placed an order for some Pattern 99 blades to test. I'll start a new thread once they arrive.
Hi Bill,
Any chance you posted a thread regarding your impressions of pattern 99s? I've been all over the map as a child skater but as an adult skater, I mostly did pattern 99s. Most recently I had a silly moment and purchased coronation ace profile blades and could not get used to them. The pro shop wouldn't take them back so I ended up finding an inexpensive pair of used blades from Canada, Gam G14 (cross cut pick, 8.5' Primary and 10' Complex rockers), which I like very much. Unfortunately my new pro shop said I need new blades due to a past sharpening mistake. Now I'm stuck trying to figure out if there's something in between a pattern 99 and a gam g14 while at the same time trying to stay as far away from a coronation ace profile as possible. TMI, but I would love to see what you thought of pattern 99s. And, any wisdom
you could send my way would be very appreciated!
Thank you so much in advance!
Rachael
Before I blew out my knee and had to quit skating, I was using the Pattern 99 blades as my go-to blades. I liked them more than other blades that I tested for a number of reasons. They felt good on the ice, and performed well for me. They were my pick.
BTW, I had skated on a pair of Aces for about 20 years before I started experimenting with other blades. I had hand-sharpened which greatly extended their life, but measurements showed that the profile was flattening out a bit. A new pair of Aces had an odd profile compared to the older ones, and I couldn't spin on the new ones. MK Pros were fine, Gold Seals were fine, and Pattern 99 blades were fine. I could skate and spin on all of those, but the Gold Seals had longer tails which got in the way. I removed a portion of the tail in an experiment, and I liked that modification.
I ended up using the Pattern 99 blades in the end because they had nice parallel sides that could be hand sharpened. I'd have to use my power sharpener on Gold Seals because of their tapered blade and side-honing.
In short, I loved the Pattern 99 blades.
I posted reviews of all of these when I was switching out blades every couple of weeks to try out different makes and models. I believe that you'll find a Pattern 99 review in this thread...
http://skatingforums.com/index.php?topic=8464.0 (http://skatingforums.com/index.php?topic=8464.0)
I'm not Bill, but I use Pattern 99s. Unlike you I loved parabolic Coronation Aces that I tried for just an hour or so, but it is possible the copycat sort aren't quite the same. I did not enjoy Phantoms, but I tried them earlier in my skating. My NY coach likes Phantoms for herself but 99 for me. Originally I was on the Aspire XPs that many people dislike, but I could spin just fine on those..
I found them all to work pretty well.
My input is to give my perspective even if it isn't so useful. If I didn't prefer Phantoms, then you might like them better and so on. Oh, and Gold Seal do have really long tails!
With your skills, I bet you could make your own blades! ::>)
Imagine all the experiments you could do, on length, width of working surface, profile, height, tilt, and toe pick shapes!
After all, it doesn't make sense that any one blade should work for everyone's anatomy, range of motion, and desired skills.
Your initial experiments could be done on relatively soft skill, that cuts easily. Then you use a propane torch to temper harder steel, cut it, then re-harden it. (I'm assuming it is hard to find cutting tools that will cut roughly 60+ hardness steel, but maybe it isn't?)
Or - maybe you can buy a laser cutter?
:)
Query, my grandfather was (among other notable proffessions) a welder and metalworker. I have a bit of experience with that myself although nothing like his or my father's wealth of experience. It would be very fun indeed to play around with various designs. I'm fascinated by blacksmithing and have been for many years, but I expect I could at best learn to make blades for figures like the kind a century+ ago.
At the skate camp today I asked around about blades and found Phantoms to be the most popular with MK professionals next. I wish I had my pair of Phantoms and Gold Seals here and easily available to test again now that I skate better than when I got the skates they were mounted on.
Skate Science blades intrigued me, and the newer brand I can't recall now. If I was still skating a lot I planned to buy those to try.
There is a discontinued model that had a much longer rocker I'm intrigued by too.
Oops, Alba, I was just having fun. Bill has tested so many blades, that maybe he can create a "blade of the month club". :)
Quote from: Query on July 23, 2024, 05:36:44 PM
Oops, Alba, I was just having fun. Bill has tested so many blades, that maybe he can create a "blade of the month club". :)
:D
Quote from: rachilsk8 on July 20, 2024, 05:40:42 PM
Hi Bill,
Any chance you posted a thread regarding your impressions of pattern 99s? I've been all over the map as a child skater but as an adult skater, I mostly did pattern 99s. Most recently I had a silly moment and purchased coronation ace profile blades and could not get used to them. The pro shop wouldn't take them back so I ended up finding an inexpensive pair of used blades from Canada, Gam G14 (cross cut pick, 8.5' Primary and 10' Complex rockers), which I like very much. Unfortunately my new pro shop said I need new blades due to a past sharpening mistake. Now I'm stuck trying to figure out if there's something in between a pattern 99 and a gam g14 while at the same time trying to stay as far away from a coronation ace profile as possible. TMI, but I would love to see what you thought of pattern 99s. And, any wisdom
you could send my way would be very appreciated!
Thank you so much in advance!
Rachael
Coronation Ace uses the same base rocker profile as Pattern 99, so you should never expect anyone to match that except John Wilson themselves or Paramount Blades.
Almost any other brand only really matches the pick cluster and main rocker radius - not the actual rocker profile.