Rules changes over the last couple of decades has meant that some non-listed elements have simply just disappeared from programs. I thought we should have a place where we can show videos of these.
I, for one, haven't seen piston rolls in years. Here they are, starting at 1:40.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9vOwgre7CA
There are so many things!!
Walleys
Spread Eagles? Can't remember many used as highlights these days but maybe the likes of Patrick Chan and Jeff Buttle
Russian Split Jumps?
Quote from: icedancer2 on October 15, 2012, 09:50:51 PM
Spread Eagles? Can't remember many used as highlights these days but maybe the likes of Patrick Chan and Jeff Buttle
Joshua Farris 2012 Lake Placid JGP Long Program - 2:57 (this would look better if ISU's vids were sound-sync'd)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQfOQo7qlBA
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQfOQo7qlBA)
Spreadeagles actually seem to be coming back into vogue.
Quote from: icedancer2 on October 15, 2012, 09:50:51 PMRussian Split Jumps?
Jason Brown 2012 Glacier Falls Long Program - 3:39 (the jump doesn't appear in the Junior version of this program so you'll have to wait for Nationals to see it again)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy5VUPQ3Nvs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oy5VUPQ3Nvs)
I think there are more spread eagles around than hydroblades?
Quote from: jjane45 on October 15, 2012, 11:16:32 PM
I think there are more spread eagles around than hydroblades?
Correct - hydroblades have always been more of a carnival/show move than a competition move. (RIP, Frick and Frack, Kings of the Cantilever) Before everyone jumps to search YouTube to prove I'm wrong, note that I said hydroblades were MORE RARE in competition routines. Yes, some competitors included them in their routines.
Shae-lynn Bourne performed my favorite show routine filled with hydroblades:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VrY3fPWs4_M
(I was lucky enough to see this in person at Fashion on Ice. The promotors gave tickets to one of our board members to distribute and she nicely shared the wealth.)
For the record, I think that a spreadeagle is the sexiest thing a guy can do on the ice. I'll take Boitano's spreadeagles over Plushy touching himself any day.
OMG thank you for sharing the Shae Lynn Bourne video... I am so tempted to try some of the gliding maneuvers, but they are bound to hurt something lol!!!
And I wonder why ladies almost always prefer ina bauers to spread eagles?
Oh brilliant thread! There have been quite a few moves that I've heard of but I never see anywhere, and I've never figured out what they were. Wish I remembered what their names are though...
Quote from: jjane45 on October 15, 2012, 11:39:14 PM
And I wonder why ladies almost always prefer ina bauers to spread eagles?
I prefer Ina Bauers too. I feel it's more graceful, maybe because there's always a layback with it.
Wow thanks for posting - great video links!
With the introduction of the Choreo Sequence this year, I expect we'll see more spreadeagles, bauers, hydroblades etc. Excellent news - I love watching those done well, and thought it was a real shame they weren't being done any more (they took too much time in a COP program for effectively no points, thanks to corridor marking).
Quote from: Isk8NYC on October 15, 2012, 11:22:23 PM
Shae-lynn Bourne performed my favorite show routine filled with hydroblades:
I am not much of an OMG gal, but...OMG!! The hydroblade on one knee! The spins! The cantilever! The shoot the duck that ends up laying on the ice and then GETS BACK UP AGAIN!!
I would love to try some of those but the rink would have to install a pulley system to get me back up off the ice!!
Thanks for posting.
Quote from: sk8lady on October 16, 2012, 09:04:36 AM
The cantilever!
What's that? Can you say what time she does this?
Quote from: Janie on October 16, 2012, 01:41:13 PM
What's that? Can you say what time she does this?
Frick and Frack / Cantilever Kings:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZziBe7TX61U
Oh wow, that looks insanely difficult. Thanks for sharing!!
Thanks for posting the videos. Our rink is hydroblade happy right now. At least 7 kids have them in their competition programs right now - ISI 5-6 and Pre-Pre, Preliminary levels. My coach even has me working on some like forward one right in the beginning of the Shae-lynn's program and the backward one at 2:51. The ones the kids do are more parallel to the ice.
Hydroblades rising up into jumps are very popular at my rink right now.
I miss FAST footwork.
Quote from: Isk8NYC on October 16, 2012, 02:17:02 PM
Frick and Frack / Cantilever Kings:
Ooouuuch!! My knees hurt just looking at that. How is it done without tearing something, or do you need to have knees of a certain structure (like proper outside spreadeagles need really good turnout)?
Walleys, reverse Walleys, inside edge landing Walleys are all popular at my rink right now as the steps into jumps in SP.
Hydroblades are the cool new thing at my rink, too. We got a new skater last year who did great hydroblading, and she's taught a few others.
Ina Bauer's, walleys, and cantilevers are all being taught and used extensively. Split jumps and stag jumps are too. The need for variants in the step sequences, difficult entries, and points for skating skills means that the grace moves and transitions are all necessary.
I was watching a video of Ken Shelley and Jojo Starbuck the other day and caught a glimpse of the elusive mazurka.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwAfGa4eiKE
The mazurka occurs around 1:20.
Quote from: icedancer2 on October 15, 2012, 09:50:51 PM
There are so many things!!
Walleys
Spread Eagles? Can't remember many used as highlights these days but maybe the likes of Patrick Chan and Jeff Buttle
Russian Split Jumps?
My daughter was just practicing spread eagles yesterday! I've seen them in a few programs too. Maybe it is regional?
Quote from: techskater on October 16, 2012, 08:11:52 PM
Walleys, reverse Walleys, inside edge landing Walleys are all popular at my rink right now as the steps into jumps in SP.
Why are walleys not an official jump? Because it's too hard to do multi-revolutions?
Quote from: icedancer2 on October 15, 2012, 09:50:51 PM
There are so many things!!
Walleys
Spread Eagles? Can't remember many used as highlights these days but maybe the likes of Patrick Chan and Jeff Buttle
Russian Split Jumps?
Spreadeagles are alive and well here too! I sometimes feel like I'm being chased round the rink by folks doing them! We have a decent portion of people doing Besti squats and Ina Bauers too. I've even seen a cantilever too! (Not as good as Frick and Frack though!)
Split jumps aren't common to see in programs around the rink but lots of people at least occasionally try them! I've only ever seen a Walley in person at the European Championships.
I'd like to add headless spins. I've not seen a single one since I started skating again. :-\ I used to have one at the end of one of my programs when I was a kid - scarily fast, ending with my arms over my head and legs crossed... aaaaand final pose! (Then try desperately not to stagger while presenting to the judges/exiting the ice!) :P
I teach split and stag jumps early, when the skater's almost landing their singles. It builds strength/control, makes the student practice the flip jump entry and helps with the turn and in-air movement. Also helps them learn how to save a bad jump if they land forward. They aren't *that* difficult, although a good split jump needs height, off-ice split capability and courage.
One foot axels. Delayed axels. Illusions, done well. Loops in footwork, done well.
Loops are definitely very present in step sequences; some are done well, some aren't - but, the judges aren't rewarding those not done well. A lot of work being done on them; then again, Canadian Junior Silver Skills requires skaters to do 6 out of 8 loops for a pass.
Delayed axel ... very cool. My kid does one in show programs and also has had it in comp program - got some +GOE for it.
Headless spin ... they're working on it right now, actually! With the changes to spin rules, finding new variations is a game. Watching Lambiel spin videos can be a productive source of interesting spin options.
Quote from: Janie on October 19, 2012, 01:01:42 AM
Why are walleys not an official jump? Because it's too hard to do multi-revolutions?
Yes. But primarily, if it is not a listed jump then you can do one without it counting towards the Zayak rule limit, so the rule actually encourages people to do the jump.
Tuck axel.
Quote from: Janie on October 19, 2012, 01:01:42 AM
Why are walleys not an official jump? Because it's too hard to do multi-revolutions?
Pretty much. Toe walleys are counted/scored the same as toe loops though (as far as the rules go they are considered the same jump).
Thanks nicklaszlo and sarahspins! And what a coincidence! I just watched a documentary on Youtube yesterday that mentioned Elaine Zayak, so I just learned what the Zayak rule was!
I was ice monitor for regionals and saw several juvenile skaters doing walleys.
Quote from: nicklaszlo on October 20, 2012, 12:33:38 PM
Tuck axel.
Is that the one where you do an axel and raise the legs up to your body? I think I've seen a picture of that at an outdoor rink (LP oly?) with the photographer down low, and the skater above the horizon and framed against the clouds. V. Dramatic.
Reporting that a skater (Alexander Majorov)) just did a hydroblade in his choreographic step sequence at skate america. Hopefully those will bring back a lot of the fun moves.
Quote from: Skittl1321 on October 20, 2012, 10:34:07 PM
Reporting that a skater (Alexander Majorov)) just did a hydroblade in his choreographic step sequence at skate america. Hopefully those will bring back a lot of the fun moves.
Super low and parallel to the ice!
And men are doing split jumps left and right, and they all look awful so far, so I wish they wouldn't!
And speaking of cantilevers, I noticed this was Ross Miner's twitter picture:
(https://twimg0-a.akamaihd.net/profile_images/385155485/n503308359_1479893_1018497.jpg)
I've noticed with the rule changes that a lot of kids are working on spreads into axels and then landing and turning straight into a spread. Similarly there's a lot of inas into axels.
Quote from: nicklaszlo on October 20, 2012, 12:32:55 PM
Yes. But primarily, if it is not a listed jump then you can do one without it counting towards the Zayak rule limit, so the rule actually encourages people to do the jump.
Yes and no on the "encouraging" part. Because of all the IJS requirements that DO count toward your jump limit (not the Zayak rule - that's the "no more than 2 of any particular triple, but the no more than 7 jump passes rule) and the difficulty (energy usage) of spins and step sequences and the requirement to be "busy" throughout the program to pick up a bigger transition score, unless Walleys are an 'easy' element for you, it's not going to get included in the program because something will have to give somewhere in order to gain some consistency on everything else. Also, if you have the slightest propensity for flipping the edge back over to the outside on the entry, you are going to inadvertently use up a jump box on a single loop.
Some people are using it as part of the required steps into jumps and I have seen it in some choreographic sequences this year (one had walleys and inside Axels into the requisite spiral in ladies)
This might just be at my rink, but alot of the skaters here are doing sit spins and backsits with their legs bent in and sort of wrapped? Like the begining free-leg position of a scratch spin, but in a sit spin? My coach always told me to keep my leg straight, and that it's more "technically correct" for it to be straight, not wrapped. But the bent leg in the sit spin seems to withstand good in competiton.
Quote from: RosiePosie.iskates on October 22, 2012, 08:44:41 AM
This might just be at my rink, but alot of the skaters here are doing sit spins and backsits with their legs bent in and sort of wrapped? Like the begining free-leg position of a scratch spin, but in a sit spin? My coach always told me to keep my leg straight, and that it's more "technically correct" for it to be straight, not wrapped. But the bent leg in the sit spin seems to withstand good in competiton.
Sounds like a variation. There is the bent leg "out to the side" - a broken leg spin; there's the free leg wrapped behind and "under" the spinning leg - we call it a squeegee spin, but, there are other names for it ... the pancake, where the free leg lies across the spinning leg and the skater's upper body is bent down on the leg ... there are a ton of different variations on the sit spin. The crucial point is whether the sit position is obtained, which requires that the thigh of the spinning leg be parallel or below parallel to the ice ...
Skaters use the variations to bump points for levels, and also because, well, they look cool and are often more difficult than a basic sit. However, that said, a skater should be able to do a solid basic sit spin.
Quote from: RosiePosie.iskates on October 22, 2012, 08:44:41 AM
This might just be at my rink, but alot of the skaters here are doing sit spins and backsits with their legs bent in and sort of wrapped? Like the begining free-leg position of a scratch spin, but in a sit spin? My coach always told me to keep my leg straight, and that it's more "technically correct" for it to be straight, not wrapped. But the bent leg in the sit spin seems to withstand good in competiton.
The wrap isn't the perfect tech position, but it generates speed and centering, so those benefits offset the weak position. It's really difficult for long-legged skaters to stretch out the free leg straight, but it is possible and it looks so cool when they do it well.
There are three sit-spin leg positions under IJS this year: free leg forward, leg to the side and leg behind.
Quote from: Skittl1321 on October 20, 2012, 11:29:04 PM
And men are doing split jumps left and right, and they all look awful so far, so I wish they wouldn't!
Keegan Messing can do one all day long as far as I am concerned. His is WONDERFUL :love:
so can rory flack burghart, one of his coaches, its so big ;D
Quote from: Skittl1321 on October 20, 2012, 11:29:04 PM
And men are doing split jumps left and right, and they all look awful so far, so I wish they wouldn't!
Really? Jason's is gorgeous and Joshua Farris' used to be, it's getting a little less split-y now.
Actually I've noticed a lot of the old-style moves mentioned, especially in Jason Brown's skating - he has a very gorgeous hydroblade, his Russian split is an oversplit, a nice split jump and a gorgeous spread eagle. Artur Gachinski seems to have adopted the headless spin, as well as the spreadeagle-into-3A, and Ilia Kulik regularly does cantilevers in shows.
I was referring specifically to the men at Skate America, as a follow up to the post that a man there did a hydroblade. None of the split jumps were good, one was mildly decent, and many were downright poor.
Sorry to confuse. I didn't mean that no men had a good split jump. I hope those guys use them too. It will be a nice change.
Quote from: icedancer2 on October 15, 2012, 09:50:51 PM
There are so many things!!
Walleys
Spread Eagles? Can't remember many used as highlights these days but maybe the likes of Patrick Chan and Jeff Buttle
Russian Split Jumps?
With the advent of the Choreo Sequence this season, I'm seeing LOTS of spread eagles and Russian split jumps! I also see quite a few walleys as transitional moves and difficult entries to other jumps. I think the reason the walley is not a listed jump is because it's so difficult to do more than a single walley, even for the best skaters.