Dance Blades and Boots learning Freestyle

[kateskate]

Hi.  I have a friend who ice dances. They are interested in learning some jumps and spins.  They have ice dance boots and blades but since they want to continue ice dancing, they don't want to switch to a Freestyle boot and blade (and they don't really want to have 2 pairs of boots and blades they switch between during a session unless they have to).  One coach told them that it's fine to jump on dance blades and a different coach told them that the blades would crack if they tried to jump in them.  So I thought we'd turn to you guys for help since we don't know which coach is right, both are high-level coaches.  The boots they are using are Risport Elite and the dance blades are Apex.  Our main concern is regarding the blades but we're also wondering if the dance boots will be stiff enough for jumps.  Thank You for your help!   

[Loops]

The dance boots aren't a problem. Freestyle boots seem to be getting lower and lower, and someone very reputable told me that Jason Brown uses dance boots (dunno which model).  Some dance boots are crazy stiff, but jumping will break any boot down faster. 

Back in the figures days (which helped develop ankle strength) our boots were less stiff then they are today.  Just sayin'.

Re: blades.  For jumps the toepick is key.  I'm not familiar with the apex, and can't really assess the toepick from the photo on Ultima's site.  Honestly, I wouldn't trust that pick profile at all for jumps, despite it looking more aggressive than the pick on the Wilson Dance. The drag (bottom most) pick is necessary for most jump take offs (even a waltz needs that drag pick) and she'll have compromised grip  for landings.  I don't know anything about how the slimline would react to the stress of jumps.  It probably wouldn't be an issue for singles, but I wouldn't care to test it.

If it were more entry level dance blade (akin to the Coronation dance, or the Ultima synchro) with a proper toepick, she'd be fine.  The reduced drag picks force a greater knee bend on jump entries- not a bad thing.  Fwiw-I do jump on my CorDance's, but I don't have even my lutz anymore, let alone any doubles.  If the opportunity presented itself to start jumping again, I wouldn't hesitate, and would keep my current blades.

[Bill_S]

I think that Loops' recommendations for blades are spot on. However, I will say that I learned a waltz jump on frozen ponds using a recreational blade - the kind with the rounded toepick seen on a lot of rentals. I never felt it to be a drawback for that simple jump.

For toe-assisted jumps, I agree a more aggressive pick is desired. I happen to have an older model Jackson Ultima Synchro blade here that I've never used, and it has a suitable toepick for jumps.

Here's a shot comparing Coronation Ace picks (left) to the Jackson Ultima Synchro picks...



These are an older model from 2013 or so, but I have to believe that for synchro they would retain a good pick in any redesign.

[Loops]

I dunno- when I was on Vision Synchros (with a very reduced drag pick) I definitely missed engaging it on a waltz jump, a number of times.  It was either abort or kiss the ice.  I learned quickly that I had to be honest and properly bend my knee on takeoff.  That becomes especially important as one gets to axel preparation.  There is no cheating on some pick profiles!

[kateskate]

The dance boots aren't a problem. Freestyle boots seem to be getting lower and lower, and someone very reputable told me that Jason Brown uses dance boots (dunno which model).  Some dance boots are crazy stiff, but jumping will break any boot down faster. 

Back in the figures days (which helped develop ankle strength) our boots were less stiff then they are today.  Just sayin'.

Re: blades.  For jumps the toepick is key.  I'm not familiar with the apex, and can't really assess the toepick from the photo on Ultima's site.  Honestly, I wouldn't trust that pick profile at all for jumps, despite it looking more aggressive than the pick on the Wilson Dance. The drag (bottom most) pick is necessary for most jump take offs (even a waltz needs that drag pick) and she'll have compromised grip  for landings.  I don't know anything about how the slimline would react to the stress of jumps.  It probably wouldn't be an issue for singles, but I wouldn't care to test it.

If it were more entry level dance blade (akin to the Coronation dance, or the Ultima synchro) with a proper toepick, she'd be fine.  The reduced drag picks force a greater knee bend on jump entries- not a bad thing.  Fwiw-I do jump on my CorDance's, but I don't have even my lutz anymore, let alone any doubles.  If the opportunity presented itself to start jumping again, I wouldn't hesitate, and would keep my current blades.

That's good to know that the boots will be okay.  Thank you for your input on the blades, I will share this information with them!

[kateskate]

I think that Loops' recommendations for blades are spot on. However, I will say that I learned a waltz jump on frozen ponds using a recreational blade - the kind with the rounded toepick seen on a lot of rentals. I never felt it to be a drawback for that simple jump.

For toe-assisted jumps, I agree a more aggressive pick is desired. I happen to have an older model Jackson Ultima Synchro blade here that I've never used, and it has a suitable toepick for jumps.

Here's a shot comparing Coronation Ace picks (left) to the Jackson Ultima Synchro picks...



These are an older model from 2013 or so, but I have to believe that for synchro they would retain a good pick in any redesign.

Thank you for all of your input.  Buying synchro blades may be the way to go! 

[Query]

FWIIW, I've known and heard of people who found two blades with mounting holes in the same spots, and drilled holes all the way through. Then they mounted the blades using a bolt instead of a screw. On the inside they used roller skate nuts - which are very thin, and put them under an insole which cushioned the resulting small bump.

But that may be beyond the abilities of many skate shops to do. A really good shop that deals with both ice and roller skates at a fairly high level might know how to do it, because high end roller skates are sometimes done that way. Then your friend can swap blades easily and quickly.

And you'd have to be really careful to find two blades with mounting holes in the same places. Even within a single brand, that isn't always true.

I did have an ice dance coach who demonstrated an axle on dance blades and in very soft ice dance boot, in response to a challenge by a group lesson student, who assumed no ice dancer could jump. But he'd been a pretty competitive skater, and was still pretty athletic.

[Loops]

Thank you for all of your input.  Buying synchro blades may be the way to go! 

I would!! Vision synchros at least used to be at a very interesting price point, too.

[kateskate]

FWIIW, I've known and heard of people who found two blades with mounting holes in the same spots, and drilled holes all the way through. Then they mounted the blades using a bolt instead of a screw. On the inside they used roller skate nuts - which are very thin, and put them under an insole which cushioned the resulting small bump.

But that may be beyond the abilities of many skate shops to do. A really good shop that deals with both ice and roller skates at a fairly high level might know how to do it, because high end roller skates are sometimes done that way. Then your friend can swap blades easily and quickly.

And you'd have to be really careful to find two blades with mounting holes in the same places. Even within a single brand, that isn't always true.

I did have an ice dance coach who demonstrated an axle on dance blades and in very soft ice dance boot, in response to a challenge by a group lesson student, who assumed no ice dancer could jump. But he'd been a pretty competitive skater, and was still pretty athletic.

That's a great idea!  I don't think my friend would mind having 2 sets of blades if they could change them out as easily as you described....and then you wouldn't have to have 2 different pairs of boots, that would be awesome!!!  Thank You!

[kateskate]

I would!! Vision synchros at least used to be at a very interesting price point, too.

You're right, the Vision Synchros appear to be around $200, not bad at all for blades.  Thank You!