Bit depressed about ongoing boot issues

[MCsAngel2]

Well, I did read when I started that you should consider your first skates throwaways, but I was hoping I would get lucky.

They still hurt every time, 2.5 months in, so this is clearly not just breaking in/foot getting used to it pain. And it's a vague sort of "they hurt all over" feeling. At one point, when they shrunk a bit, I had them punched out where they were obviously pinching my toes, but it didn't affect the pain/discomfort I get after a few minutes on the ice. The only thing that makes it go away is getting off my feet, either sitting down or standing at the wall and lifting them one at a time. I have to do this all the time...every couple of laps.

I started thinking, maybe my fitter was wrong when he told me my 6EE boots were made on an E last and built out, and that's why the size sticker says 6E. If they are a width too narrow, that would explain the pain, right? But I've been chatting with Jackson on Facebook and they said the same thing.

I'm not experienced enough to figure this out. I don't know if the boots are just the wrong shape for me, or if it's something else to do with my flat feet, or if it really is just that I need to lose the 50 pounds. I don't know if it's the extra wide tongue my fitter ordered which is actually TOO wide.

I already have my eye on custom Harlicks. And going in person to the factory to get fitted. But...I don't know enough about what's wrong with these boots to ensure it doesn't happen with others. And I'm also bummed because I LIKE these Jackson boots. I think they look really nice.

So I'll continue to vent here, and keep skating on them in hopes that something will finally click in place, and I can actually get to a point where I can start working on skills instead of skating laps hoping the pain goes away.

[Bill_S]

I recall having general foot pain years ago when I got new skates, but it didn't last as long as you describe. For me, it was just getting used to them and having the boots break in. The funny thing is that I had the same cramping pain again after significant time off of the ice. In that case, I believe it was the foot muscles being asked to do something different from what they were used to, and my arch being supported differently from that of everyday shoes.

It does sound like you might have other contributing factors at work (wide tongue?). I hope that you get to the bottom of it soon. It's really too bad about the high cost of skates + blades and how that puts a damper on experimentation.

[MCsAngel2]

I haven't mentioned the tongue because I haven't ever heard anyone else speak about something similar. So I measured a EE width, and the fitter ordered an extra wide tongue to go with it (since it was already semi custom), and it's a very padded tongue. The thing looks ridiculous when I"m laced up. I think they're about a half inch too wide on either side (so an inch too wide altogether) and it makes the upper part of the boot look huge. But my pain issues are in the overall foot area (like they are being squeezed? And it's worse when I'm on only one foot), so I haven't worried about the tongue.

[Bill_S]

I saw your mention of the wide tongue somewhere else. From your explanation above, it sounds like your problem lies elsewhere though.

Does anyone you've talked to have a way to measure to see if the boots are actually EE or just E width?

I'd have no idea how to go about that myself. Perhaps sole width would be an indicator? That's where a chat with the manufacturer would be helpful.

[DressmakingMomma]

My daughter just could not wear Jacksons. I know many people are very happy in them and they are a popular brand for lot of skaters with wide feet, but she just could not make them work for her. Both of her pairs were special ordered but no matter how much punching, heat molding, re-lacing, insole adjustment and so on, they were so uncomfortable. She found Harlicks to work pretty well, though the fit was never quite right and eventually she ended up in Riedell customs - which have worked amazingly well for her.

Best of luck, boot issues are so, so frustrating.

[Loops]

Golly, what a total drag. Just think how wonderful it WILL be once you are through this though.

I am out-of-country, so don't know how useful this idea is, but I'm sure someone  can comment so here goes....

Are there any major competitions (nationals or maybe even regionals) coming anywhere accessible to you? Or the professional skaters association meetings?? My understanding is that bookmakers have a presence at those events. You could talk to several and maybe even get some fittings done. Jackson and avanta have some fancy pants fitting systems they may have available. I bet Riedell does too. Even if you have to travel to the comp, if I'm right that they are present you'd get a lot of bang for your buck in terms of skate discussions.

Of course that's a good 9 months away. And hopefully you'll solve your problem before then. PSA might be sooner...or already passed....

[Query]

I'm not experienced enough to figure this out.

EXPERIMENT!

The best way to get that experience is to experiment! You CAN do it. But you have to try.

Without experimenting, you can't find out what is wrong. Even an expert needs you to help him or her figure out what needs to be fixed. About the only other thing even an expert could do is to use socks with built in pressure sensors, so you can see where the boot is creating extra-pressure points. Something a real medically qualified expert, like a podiatrist, t MIGHT be able to do, if he has the right hardware.

It takes a lot of time to experiment with all these things, if you don't know where to start, because you don't feel pain in any one place, but feel it all over. But I think it's worth it.

E.g., Try each of the following things. Does it make more or less pain, or do nothing? If each trial doesn't improve things, undo it (e.g., if it involves adding tape, remove the tape):

Investigate whether the boot is pushing down your arch by temporally putting strips of cloth athletic tape (sometimes called coach tape - widely available in dollar stores, the first aid sections of drug stores, sports stores, etc.) under the part of the insole under the arch.

Investigate whether it is pushing down the rest of your foot by temporally putting strips of tape tape everywhere else.

Investigate whether one side or the other of your foot is better supported by the other by putting tape under one side, then the other.

Since you had to punch out your toes, I doubt the front of the foot is sliding sliding side-to-side. But if the back of the boot is too wide, your heel could be sliding side-to-side. You could try adding tape under the heels that is too long, and wraps around your heels. You don't want it to stick to your heels - although I guess an alternative thing just for one brief experiment would be to tape the sides of your heels. Likewise you can figure out whether your foot is sliding forward and back by taping the heel, or the boot behind the heel. Abrasion due to sliding can cause pain - and sliding around makes it really easy to hurt yourself.

Investigate whether the boot is too small and/or or the insole too high by removing the insole. Is it loose enough for your foot to slide around, or for you to feel unsupported? Is there more or less pain? But be careful - some footbeds have sharp objects or poky bumps that you may need to put something like tape over, to avoid injuring your foot. You can also try thinner socks too. Some people use none, but I think you need a really good boot fit (which you don't have yet) to get away with it - though maybe you could cut a thin cardboard (or thick paper) insole to the same peripheral shape as your current one.

Once you have extra space inside, you have a lot more room to experiment with the other things mentioned here.

Maybe the heel is too high. I'm a guy, don't wear high heels, and that has been a huge problem for me. But even if you do sometimes wear high heels, your boots might lift your heels higher than you are used to. So try adding tape under everywhere but the heels.

Maybe the place your foot is bending upwards, near the front of the foot (ideally it should be right at the ball of your foot) is too far forward or back. One fitter told me the single most important thing in boot fit is quite probably getting the position of the foot bend right. That might not just cause pain - you could seriously injure your foot that way. Tape under a very thin insole can be used to reshape the effective bottom of the boot a little to move the bend point forward or back. Also, maybe it is bending your foot too much. So try taping across the bottom of the insole under the bend point, to reduce the bend.

Investigate whether the boot is too large by wearing thicker socks.

BTW, your socks should be higher than your boots! Wearing short socks is a really common mistake.

I'm not sure what you mean about the tongue being too wide. Too thin is obvious - if you can see your foot or sock, on any place below the top of the boots, it is too thin. The tongue should tuck under the sides of the boot, not above the sides, on almost any shoe.

But there are a few bad things a wide tongue could do. E.g., It could push down or inwards the sides of your feet.

In addition, it is really important that the sides of the tongue be "feathered" - i.e., that at the sides they gradually get thinner, so you don't feel a sharp edge. And in fact, you should not feel a sharp edge against your feet anywhere on the boot.

I guess you could do some simple experiments with the tongue, just like you can with the insole.

E.g., put cloth tape under the tongue in the middle, or on one or both sides. If the tongue isn't featured, you could stick tape around the edges to smooth it out a little. That would look ugly, by for now you are just trying to figure out what is wrong. (It is probably possible to sand the edges of the tongue to feather it, but that's a permanent change. Likewise, you can probably sand the sides of the tongue to make it thinner, but that's a permanent change too.)

I had a lot of troubles with my ankle bones. In particular, my fitter didn't specify to the boot maker where the bones were or how large they were - so even though they were custom boots, the boot maker didn't shape the boot to accommodate the ankle bones. If you feel a lot of pressure against your ankle bones (on either or both sides of the ankle), maybe they aren't punched out far enough, or are punched in the wrong place.

There are people who supposedly have trouble with excess pressure against the Achilles tendon. Maybe making extra space inside the boot, using the methods described earlier, would help? In the long run, if you were sure that was the problem, you can punch out the back a little - but that is one of the stiffest parts of the boot, and it would be hard to punch much.

Likewise, there could be excess pressure against the middle height parts of your foot. Insufficient pressure to provide support could be dealt with by taping, but aside from making extra space, it is hard to deal with excess pressure, except by punching, so it is hard to experiment.

I've heard a lot of good things from good fitters about custom Harlicks, BTW. But to some extent, there is little point to getting custom boots if you don't know what to fix.

One last thing. If none of the things I have suggested helps, you could have injured your foot. E.g., you could have a fractured bone, or something else. It's expensive, but it might be worth getting it checked over, before wasting money on custom boots. I don't know how to check for that yourself, but I guess, when you are not skating, you could try putting pressure on different parts of your feet, and bending your feet, and seeing whether that hurts. It's worth a try, but it would be better to have someone medically trained check it over. (I read somewhere that a medical team at the University of Delaware had concluded that most competitive figure skaters WERE skating with fractured bones, and I've heard something similar for a lot of dancers and other athletes, so it isn't completely impossible.) OTOH, since both feet hurt, you would have had to injure both feet for this to be the issue.

[MCsAngel2]

All right, then. I spend pretty much all my free time now thinking about and googling about my skate issues. I also go back and forth about what I think the issue is.

Right now, I've landed on 'It's my flat feet, not my boots'. One: I've deduced (decided?) that my pronation is still present enough to be preventing me from doing one foot glides. I really can't explain how I feel there's NO other explanation, I ABSOLUTELY should be able to do them, and I'm baffled. So my research this weekend has led me to believe either my heel wedges aren't quite high enough (and I am sure the bigger one my tech gave me recently for my left foot *did* make a difference - that foot feels much closer to being able to doing a one foot glide), and/or, I also need something under the inside of my ball of my foot.

And Two: The aching of my feet is my flat feet, compounded by the poron insoles (which look almost identical to yellow superfeet but more padded and with more give) pushing the weight of my feet from my arches to my heels and balls. I compared my Jackson soles to my superfeet again, and compared to a few weeks ago (when I said the superfeet were a bust), the Jackson soles have flattened out considerably. This could explain why my foot pain is not as bad/takes longer to appear than it did when the skates were new. I read a discussion somewhere that some people have naturally low arches or flat feet; and molded insoles are meant to support normal or high arches, and can therefore hurt people with naturally low arches. That said, I'm doing a test run with the superfeet in my skates, which I fully expect to be a painful bust. Just have to be sure. This transfer of pressure to my heels and balls is compounded by my pronation. I have got to move where the pressure is collecting in my foot, or make it more cushioned. I really paid attention at my last session. They start out aching just a tiny bit under my balls, and then the repetitive alternating striking of the skate on the ice pounds on it until all of a sudden my entire feet hurt. In this respect, I definitely think losing weight will help, but that's going to take a while.

I've gone back and forth about whether it's the boots, I tend to 'forget' what I felt the last time I changed my mind about them. It isn't the boots. The boots are fine (well, they could be narrower at the base of the heel), in fact I probably have a smidge too much room in the toes, but I like how the high toe box feels. The boots are just right. If I took out the insoles, they'd be too big (and there's nothing under the insole and I can feel the tops of screws or something). Oh, and I skate barefoot. I find it much more comfortable.

Yes, the heel in fact might be too high. I'm keeping that in mind as I research prospective custom skates. Jackson is not known for low heels, AND I have dance boots which are supposedly even a bit higher. Yes, the foot bend might be wrong, or more specifically, the combination of the high heel and the arched footbed are wrong for my feet. And every time I add a wedge for my heel, it makes it higher. The more I think about it, the more I think, "Aha!" Would also explain why I'm getting lower back pain now. So....maybe it IS my boots....AND my feet.

I do wonder if the too wide tongues are adding too much volume in my boot. I've now got lace bite, or the thing that's like lace bite but it's caused by too much compression on the nerves on the top of the foot. It hurts there mildly all the time now, whenever I flex my foot (both of them) up. But this is not the area with the issue I'm having with skating.

Or maybe the instep of the boots is too low, and the tongue thing is pushing down on my soles too much?

Definitely don't need more space behind the achilles. Already have too much in the back of my right foot, and I've got a vertical line of makeup sponges taped up the back so my heel doesn't slip up.

I absolutely agree that there's no point in getting customs until I understand my feet and my needs better. To end on a down note, I just spent an hour reading all the posts by a poster on here, from 2012, who seemed to have very very similar issues as me. Her journey through three pairs of lower end Jacksons and Riedells to a nightmare with custom Harlicks, ended in January 2013, 11 months after she began skating, getting no farther than Adult 2, and she's never posted again since. That wasn't encouraging.

[Query]

Right now, I've landed on 'It's my flat feet, not my boots'. One: I've deduced (decided?) that my pronation is still present enough to be preventing me from doing one foot glides... , and/or, I also need something under the inside of my ball of my foot.

By pronation, you mean which of the following?:
1. The bottoms of your feet are naturally tiilted inwards towards your body center, even when you don't put much weight on them.
2. When you put weight on them, the feet tend to tilt inwards, in your skates. (Since the shoe/boot arch shape may be different, you could test this for each of your shoes, including your skates, and not be assumed to be the same.)

In either case, the most common tape-based solution is to put a few layers of tape under the arch (underneath the insole). The tape should run roughly parallel to the sides of the skate. If you want to get fancy, and avoid creating an edge that you can feel, you would overlap the layers horizontally, so it was thickest directly under the arch, but got a little thinner off to the sides, but that isn't needed at first.

You can buy a roll of cloth athletic tape for $1 or $2, and it could solve the whole problem. You could also get by with very cheap insoles, and forget the expensive stuff - or you could still use the expensive ones if you like, if you find that easier.

(BTW, by arches, I am assuming you mean the "medial longitudinal arches" on the insides of the feet. There are often considered to be about 4 other arches that support other parts of the feet - a "lateral longitudinal arch" on the opposite side, a "principle longitudinal arch" in the middle, and two "lateral arches" that run across the foot, one near the middle, and one closer to the toes).

In case 2, you COULD try something fairly sophisticated, where instead of only using cloth tape, you put cloth tape under the arch itself, but compressible foam tape in the middle and the other side. That way you could have about the same thickness with minimal weight, but as the weight increases, you would have more support under the arches, and less on the outside of the feet.  However, the chances are, that is just getting fancy - you mostly just need something to support the feet underneath the arches.

HOWEVER, if you have "flat feet", that can instead mean that the support under the arches is already too high, relative to the other parts of the feet. So you want to put tape under the rest of the area parallel to the arches (the other two longitudinal arches), and/or under the heel and/or near-toe region. But if you still collapse inwards under weight, that is where the two-tape-type solution I mentioned does makes sense.

And Two: The aching of my feet is my flat feet, compounded by the poron insoles (which look almost identical to yellow superfeet but more padded and with more give) pushing the weight of my feet from my arches to my heels and balls.

Do you mean that they are effectively lowering your arch region wrt to the rest of your feet, by raising the rest - i.e., what I just mentioned?

Do they do so too much? If so, put tape under the arch, to raise it up - not as much as was originally true, but somewhere in between.

Since you aren't sure, you can briefly try each of these things, and keep them if they help. And remove them if they don't.

If you are really confused, you could find a good sports podiatrist (not a non-sports podiatrist, unless you can't find a sports podiatrist), and ask them to heat mold you a pair of orthotics, specific to both your feet and your boots. (Bring blade guards, so you can heat mold under pressure.) That's big money - in the U.S., roughly $300-$400, and is just replicating what I suggest by using $1 or $2 of tape. The podiatrist spent years training to do this, has a detailed knowledge of anatomy both of us lack, and should be a little faster and a lot more confident at it. Another category of person who does this, BTW, are the most expert fitters who work in ski shops. They heat mold using materials like cork, if that hasn't changed. I'm just not sure if they would be willing to work on skates, or if there is an issue with fitting ski stuff into skates. Also, skis don't roll forward and back, the way skates do, and I'm not sure if that could be an issue - probably a minor one, but I'm not certain.

Definitely don't need more space behind the achilles. Already have too much in the back of my right foot, and I've got a vertical line of makeup sponges taped up the back so my heel doesn't slip up.

An imaginative solution! See, you can figure this stuff out yourself! If you were bright enough to figure that out, you are probably bright enough to figure the rest out.

[MCsAngel2]

I have naturally pronating feet, without shoes. Not an issue normally, but it is with the skates. My arches are naturally low, so the highly molded insoles like superfeet REALLY dig into my foot and it hurts.

Alright Query, I went and got the stretchy medical tape. (I looked for the furniture movers Agnes recommends, but Target didn't have any). Now tell me how you apply it to the bottom of the insole, as it only sticks to itself and is not adhesive?

[tstop4me]

I have naturally pronating feet, without shoes. Not an issue normally, but it is with the skates. My arches are naturally low, so the highly molded insoles like superfeet REALLY dig into my foot and it hurts.

Alright Query, I went and got the stretchy medical tape. (I looked for the furniture movers Agnes recommends, but Target didn't have any). Now tell me how you apply it to the bottom of the insole, as it only sticks to itself and is not adhesive?

You got the wrong tape.  The one you got is intended for DIY wrap-around bandages.

Everyone has their favorite construction material for boot adjustments.  At the risk of confusing you further, I'll suggest what I use for temporary (trial) adjustments:  moleskin.  They come in adhesive sheets, and can be cut with scissors to the shapes you want.  They come in two flavors:  plain, and with light foam padding.  Get a package of each.  They can be layered as needed to vary the thickness and degree of cushioning.  The material is highly conformal and soft, doesn't dig into you.  The adhesive is fairly tacky, won't shift around, even under sweaty feet; yet, if you pull it off slowly (strong emphasis on slowly), it will release without damaging the underlying boot/footbed/insole surfaces. 

Readily available in the footcare section of supermarkets, drugstores, and Target.  I've used Dr. Scholl's and Curad brands very successfully.  Can't vouch for the el-cheapo stuff.

[MCsAngel2]

I've had some Dr. Scholl's molefoam on my Amazon skating list for awhile, maybe I'll go that route next (after looking for furniture movers too).

I really don't get using regular cloth tape for something like this? It's so thin, you'd have to add like thirty layers to get any thickness.

[tstop4me]

I have naturally pronating feet, without shoes. Not an issue normally, but it is with the skates. My arches are naturally low, so the highly molded insoles like superfeet REALLY dig into my foot and it hurts.

You need to be certain that you have naturally low arches, rather than normal or high arches that have fallen (collapsed).  The net result is still flat feet, but the treatments are different.

[MCsAngel2]

I definitely have naturally low arches and not fallen ones.

[Christy]

Have you considered visiting a podiatrist, preferably one with skating experience, and getting them to make insoles for you? Also Superfeet have different insoles for high and low arches, plus high / low volume, so you could try something other than the yellow ones.

[MCsAngel2]

Have you considered visiting a podiatrist, preferably one with skating experience, and getting them to make insoles for you? Also Superfeet have different insoles for high and low arches, plus high / low volume, so you could try something other than the yellow ones.

The Jackson poron insoles that came with are flattening out, but still have the arch area built up (with foam, not hard plastic like the superfeet), so I'm fine with the insoles I have. I think my bigger issue is the higher dance boot heel on my Jackson boot, combined with the addition of orthotic wedges that raise my heel even more, making it like I'm skating on high heels (and I haven't worn real high heels in many years).

My next step is to add some molefoam under the balls of my feet to help raise my foot a bit more level, while also trying to solve my pronation issues.

[Christy]

The Jackson poron insoles that came with are flattening out, but still have the arch area built up (with foam, not hard plastic like the superfeet), so I'm fine with the insoles I have. I think my bigger issue is the higher dance boot heel on my Jackson boot, combined with the addition of orthotic wedges that raise my heel even more, making it like I'm skating on high heels (and I haven't worn real high heels in many years).

My next step is to add some molefoam under the balls of my feet to help raise my foot a bit more level, while also trying to solve my pronation issues.

I just wondered if a podiatrist could make an insole that would fix all of the problems and mean you didn't need the wedges etc. that were making your heels higher.

[MCsAngel2]

I expect, in several months, to actually have full custom boots made. But first, I need to be sure of what all my issues are. I wouldn't just go off to get expensive orthotics made without experimenting to see what has what effect. Then, I'd either have orthotics made, or have them built into my boots (they do that!)

[Query]

Sorry for the delay. I've been out of town.

What I meant by cloth first aid tape looks like this
  https://www.dollartree.com/assured-athletic-tape-8yd-rolls/178326
or, for the better quality stuff
  https://www.pharmapacks.com/products.php?product=JOHNSON-%26-JOHNSON-COACH-Sports-Tape-1%252d1%7B47%7D2-Inches-X-10-Yards&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3Zyep7Xu4wIVCp6fCh2G4Q8OEAYYASABEgJ9WPD_BwE

Make sure you get cloth tape, not the paper tape. While paper tape is a great replacement for bandages, to cover cuts and abrasions, it isn't thick or sticky enough to be useful for this purpose.
 
The top brand is probably Johnson & Johnson - primarily because you don't need a scissors - it rips precisely and cleanly in exactly two directions, along the length, and across the length. Or at least that brand was required for a class I took a long time ago, taught by an ATC (a type of certified physical trainer), where we practiced wrapping ankles and wrists to reinforce them to prevent injury. But if you are willing to use scissors, you can use the cheap stuff. BTW, they all go bad a bit with age, especially if kept in very warm places like hot cars.
 
Moleskin does work too. It too is available in some dollar stores, though maybe not the stickiest stuff. I mostly reserve it for sticking to inside the sides of the boot, where your material needs to be stickier. I guess I prefer tape under the insole because it DOESN'T collapse much under weight. ("Moleskin" is usually a type of compressible foam tape.)

Some other cloth tapes, like duct tape, work fine, but gradually shift and change shape, so isn't a long term solution. Also, duct tape is extremely sticky, so is difficult to remove without damaging the insole. First aid tape (and to some extent moleskin) is designed to be somewhat easy to remove, because that is better for your skin.

I talked about what to do earlier in this thread
  http://skatingforums.com/index.php?topic=8397.msg100109#msg100109

Most of what you are trying to do is to build up layers of material to create a shape that supports your foot in a comfortable shape, and equalizes pressure underneath and around your foot. If you do it right, your foot should feel completely comfortable when you stand on it. Ideally you should also get no foot sores or callouses. (Some people WANT callouses, so they can stand in bare feet on rough ground. But the sliding around that produces callouses might lead to a loss of control in skates. If you want callouses, I suggest you develop them in non-skating shoes.)

If you have trouble feeling what needs correction with all your weight on your foot, you could try doing it first while sitting down, which applies less weight to your feet, and seeing if you can feel then where you have more or less pressure on the bottoms of your feet. But when you stand on one leg, your foot might collapse asymmetrically, so that might not be enough. But some people, e.g., people with "diabetic feet" (which is not identical to diabetes), can not feel well where they have pressure against their feet. For such people, seeing a podiatrist would likely be better.

And if you really can't understand these ideas (it does take an analytical mind), a podiatrist might be better for you - because you will  have trouble evaluating how well any correction product works for your feet, whether commercially made or home made.

Good luck.

[cbecker]

I was curious how things turned out with your foot pain? I work in a Pro Shop, fitting skates and know cases of flat feet are difficult to deal with... it's usually due to pressure on the arch. And more typically, I see the #1 cause is a skate that is too big(too long). You mentioned you used foam to take up slack behind achilles? That is a sure sign. If you measure your feet in inches(Toe to Heel by tracing on paper), I can convert it to proper Jackson size. If size has been verifed, you need to get back to the lifts idea and take pressure off of the arches. Hope this helps     Chris

[MCsAngel2]

The foot pain is a weird thing. In a way, they don't hurt nearly as much as they used to. But I do find that I do have to take a lot of breaks, either sitting down or standing at the wall and lifting one foot at a time. But then there are times where they don't hurt much at all. Honestly, I suspect I just don't have a Jackson foot. I've been trying to do a survey, and I think you're right about the arch thing. I think I might be better off with Riedells.

My right foot is surely shorter than the left, I know that, but then don't most people have a foot larger than the other? It's not smaller anywhere else (oddly enough, the right boot is tighter all around everywhere else on the foot except length). Since adding the makeup sponge that goes up the back, I've had no problems with the heel slipping.

I bought some superfeet black (low volume, low arch) that just arrived yesterday, haven't had a chance to put them in the boots yet. Will do that in addition to adding some furniture discs to simulate more of a wedge. I went back and reread AgnesNitt's blog post about homemade footbed modifications, and it was her opinion you need a footbed with a rigid sole to keep your foot at the angle the wedging creates, so that's what I'm trying for now.

I'll go to the quiet adult skate session on Labor Day and take more video. So many fingers crossed that this wiill work.

[Query]

I suggested the podiatrist route, because you seemed a bit cautious to experiment for yourself.

Out of curiosity I just asked the receptionist at a a small time podiatrist's office, in upstate NY, what they charge to mold a custom orthotic.

$450. OMG.

The receptionist, who said she had it done there for her own feet, said the office didn't make or mold the orthotics. They do a plaster cast of each foot, and send the cast out to someone who makes or molds the orthotic. Which could leave you in a bad place if you don't like the result. Especially, if your feet collapse asymmetrically, which means you may need to play around with the shape or stiffness of the orthotic on each side to get it just right, for figure skating.

So, if you do go the podiatrist route, I wonder if you should find one who makes or molds the orthotic on-site, and is able to make minor adjustments if you aren't happy. Preferably a podiatrist that other skaters have recommended to you.

Of course it is possible a typical podiatrist does make minor adjustments with tape. I didn't ask. I was too shocked that even a small town podiatrist would charge so much.

[tstop4me]

Of course it is possible a typical podiatrist does make minor adjustments with tape. I

The lazy podiatrists make minor adjustments with tape or adhesive foam (which come off after a short interval and need to be replaced).  The good ones keep sending them back to the lab until they're right.  I've had experience with both types.

[MCsAngel2]

I suggested the podiatrist route, because you seemed a bit cautious to experiment for yourself.

Out of curiosity I just asked the receptionist at a a small time podiatrist's office, in upstate NY, what they charge to mold a custom orthotic.

$450. OMG.

The receptionist, who said she had it done there for her own feet, said the office didn't make or mold the orthotics. They do a plaster cast of each foot, and send the cast out to someone who makes or molds the orthotic. Which could leave you in a bad place if you don't like the result. Especially, if your feet collapse asymmetrically, which means you may need to play around with the shape or stiffness of the orthotic on each side to get it just right, for figure skating.

So, if you do go the podiatrist route, I wonder if you should find one who makes or molds the orthotic on-site, and is able to make minor adjustments if you aren't happy. Preferably a podiatrist that other skaters have recommended to you.

Of course it is possible a typical podiatrist does make minor adjustments with tape. I didn't ask. I was too shocked that even a small town podiatrist would charge so much.

You know, AgnesNitt went through allllll that, and wound up losing one of the orthotics and going back to making her own footbed. Hence the superfeet insole and furniture dics. Seems like I've read of a few people who've gone the expensive custom orthotics route just to find they weren't quite right for skates and had to do their own thing anyway. So...I'm just going to try that first.

And so I went skating today. On the new black Superfeet. They feel SIGNIFICANTLY different from the yellow, and different from my regular Jackson insoles. The problem is, they are higher volume than I was expecting, and my boots are feeling tighter now. I skated, I dealt, so I'm not sure if I want to try to have the whole instep stretched or not. Had to loosen up all the laces by my toes. Also had 2 furniture discs on both feet (the left foot also already has a 'large' wedge put in by my tech). Did a couple of videos of light slaloming and two foot glides to get a good look....it does look like it did make a difference.

I should have videoed myself stroking to be sure, but even though my left foot looks better, there's still a lean. And over the past week I made a realization that I'm not sure how I missed before. The skates I had as a teen, the heel of the left blade was mounted way inside. I always assumed it was a factory error, because I remember getting the skates but I don't remember having the blade moved. I do remember blaming it for never having a proper one foot spin (I'd spin on my toepick), because it was way, way inside. You would do a double take if I had a picture of it (don't have the skates anymore). So clearly, if I had to do that when I was 13 (skates didn't have wedging in them though), I have some kind of mechanical issue with my left foot even though it looks fairly mild in bare feet. So I'm going to take them back to my tech to have him move the back of the left blade inside, a reasonable amount. And remount the right blade because it doesn't feel quite right, like the back is slightly warped or something. It makes a scraping sound whenever I push off it.

So I'm getting there, but the bigger problem is that I STILL CAN'T DO A ONE FOOT GLIDE. So this means I have a balance issue, right? Because I fall to the inside, but even then I can't control it or just stay on the inside. Not quite sure how much longer I'm willing to stick it out, honestly. I can't progress if I can't get on one foot. (four months now).

[icepixie]

Could this be a biomechanical issue further up the body in addition to foot/skate issues?  I.e., you have weakness in your glutes/thighs/core causing you to lean to the inside when you're on one foot?  If so, strengthening the affected muscles with the help of a physical therapist may be helpful.

I remember having to really work to do one foot glides at first, though not as hard as it sounds like you are.  The culprit was weak butt and core muscles.  (I had the Trendelenburg gait going on.)  That's not to say getting your skates right shouldn't be priority one, but if this is an issue, doing some work on it may help.