Jackson Debut Boot

[FigureSpins]

Jackson announced a new model today: the Debut.  It's rated up through Axel.

http://www.jacksonultima.com/en/Index.aspx?product=pLCdcjOtcln22rcKmyYpcg1A2B3C4D5E1A2B3C4D5E

[tstop4me]

Sexual discrimination lawsuit in the offing.  Women's boots come with Swarovski crystals, men's don't. 

[skategeek]

Jackson announced a new model today: the Debut.  It's rated up through Axel.

http://www.jacksonultima.com/en/Index.aspx?product=pLCdcjOtcln22rcKmyYpcg1A2B3C4D5E1A2B3C4D5E

And the Competitor (about the same support level) just disappeared from the Boot page (but is still on the Figure Skate page with the attached Aspire blade).  So I guess the Debut is meant to sort of replace the Competitor for people who want just the boot?  (I'm keeping an eye on this because that's probably about the level boot I'll be looking at when I eventually have to replace my Elles.)

[davincisop]

I feel like such a nerd saying this, but I'm a graphic designer/illustrator full time and who thought kerning this was a good idea..... the letters should connect....

[skategeek]

I feel like such a nerd saying this, but I'm a graphic designer/illustrator full time and who thought kerning this was a good idea..... the letters should connect....

I hadn't noticed initially because I didn't zoom in, but you're right.  Now that's going to drive me nuts.  The new D ebut!

[FigureSpins]

I feel like such a nerd saying this, but I'm a graphic designer/illustrator full time and who thought kerning this was a good idea..... the letters should connect....

I thought about you in late April - were your ears burning?  I used the new Microsoft font, Gabriola, for a exhibition program.  It drove me crazy - loved the font, but couldn't figure out how to get the swirls and swishes to behave.  The font shows different flourishes based on the actual letters and it doesn't kern nicely.  Two of skaters have a two-word last name (no hyphen.)  The mom proofread the document and said "You left out the space!"  I hadn't - for one skater, it looked fine, for the other, there was no gap.  Putting an extra space resolved it, but it was so frustrating!  In the titles, it added spaces I didn't want!  If it hadn't been the middle of the night, I would have asked for your help.

[tstop4me]

I hadn't noticed initially because I didn't zoom in, but you're right.  Now that's going to drive me nuts.  The new D ebut!

This is part of a carefully planned rollout ... the next model will be the E ebut.

[tothepointe]

This is what I will be getting to replace my current pair. They didn't have my size in stock today but will on Friday. It's a nice little boot and has a better quality feel to it than the Competitor imho. I liked the micro fiber a lot more than I thought I would. It has a nice feel to it.

I'll update this post with my first impressions once I've been able to try them on the ice.

[aussieskater]

Hmm those Debuts look like really nice boots, but it seems they come only in 2 widths ("A-B" and "C-D"), which probably means they can't be semi-customed. (I need A or AA heel and E ball.)

[tstop4me]

Hmm those Debuts look like really nice boots, but it seems they come only in 2 widths ("A-B" and "C-D"), which probably means they can't be semi-customed. (I need A or AA heel and E ball.)

You shouldn't make that assumption.  The two listed widths are for stock boots.  Contact Jackson to see whether they will provide a semi-custom split width in the model you're interested in.

[davincisop]

I thought about you in late April - were your ears burning?  I used the new Microsoft font, Gabriola, for a exhibition program.  It drove me crazy - loved the font, but couldn't figure out how to get the swirls and swishes to behave.  The font shows different flourishes based on the actual letters and it doesn't kern nicely.  Two of skaters have a two-word last name (no hyphen.)  The mom proofread the document and said "You left out the space!"  I hadn't - for one skater, it looked fine, for the other, there was no gap.  Putting an extra space resolved it, but it was so frustrating!  In the titles, it added spaces I didn't want!  If it hadn't been the middle of the night, I would have asked for your help.

Ah I just saw this, Figurespins! That's crazy haha. I hate when fonts don't work like you want them to. I know often a lot of fonts these days have opentype alternates (if it's a .otf, that's the big clue) and you can enable them in a menu bar, and there are sometimes options for alternate glyphs. Ideally the font is programmed that at the end of a word it subs the glyph that would allow it to look "finished" rather than one that would be a continuance, but that's always a toss up.

[tothepointe]

Hmm those Debuts look like really nice boots, but it seems they come only in 2 widths ("A-B" and "C-D"), which probably means they can't be semi-customed. (I need A or AA heel and E ball.)

They've only been out 2 months they are built around the new elite last so semi customs might be available. I got mine heat molded today and waiting for them to be mounted etc. The fit in the heel is snugger than the Competitor/Freestyle and they wrap around the instep much better. It's a really good improvement for those of us not quite ready for the higher end boots but have feet with "needs". I didn't think I'd look at Jackson again because their boots always look so clunky but these have a nice aesthetic to them once on the foot. The padding is really nice like a sneaker almost.

My fitter did say that Jackson is coming out with them next year with a thermo-plastic sole. I'm not sure if meant the lower level models that have plastic soles will now have this style boot or if the debut itself will have an Edea like sole. Considering one of Jackson's selling point is their soles aren't plastic I'm going to assume the lower end sets might be getting a makeover.

I'll update again once I've had some ice time with them. My current boot is a Reidell 910 Flair but I opted for the regular cut not the low cut this time.

[tstop4me]

They've only been out 2 months they are built around the new elite last so semi customs might be available.

I just want to confirm this.  The Jackson website states that the Premiere is built on the Elite last; but there is no such statement for the Debut.  Did your boots come with a brochure that says it is?  The stock Elite last is split width, with the heel one width narrower than the ball; for some people with slightly narrow heels, this is sufficient to avoid semi-customs.

[tothepointe]

It is my understanding that it is the same as the premier which is the same as the elite. They advertise them as elite features at a lower price. The Premiere and the Debut both have that same A/B and C/D sizing which is different from the Elite. I would have tried the Premieres but they would be too stiff for me.

It's definitely NOT the same last as the Competitors/Freestyle as I tried both side by side. The Debut has a much snugger heel and a better wrap around the instep and ankle.

I can't imagine they'd create a special last just for the Debut that is not the same as the Elite/Premiere or the Competitor/Freestyle. From a manufacturing standpoint, it doesn't make sense. Takes too long to develop a last that works. It is easy enough for them to grade it into other sizes though.

I CAN see them having a last for the Elite/Premiere/Debut and then another for the lower-priced boot and blade sets. Also, they would want to have some kind of fit consistency across the line.

I pick them up today so I'll try to do a side by side comparison with the Freestyles that I have had (though they are 1/2 size bigger)

I will say this these boot manufacturers do make it difficult to understand what skate comes with what. If you just releasing a new boot you'd think they'd want to advertise a bit more.

[Christy]

I popped into a skate shop today and they had a pair on display. Maybe it's because I currently have the Ice Fly but I thought they were really heavy.  Chatting to the staff they said they'd had them a few weeks and so far the feedback hadn't been good, especially about the microfiber feel.

[tstop4me]

I popped into a skate shop today and they had a pair on display. Maybe it's because I currently have the Ice Fly but I thought they were really heavy.  Chatting to the staff they said they'd had them a few weeks and so far the feedback hadn't been good, especially about the microfiber feel.

<<Emphasis added>>

Could you please explain what you mean by "microfiber feel"?  Do you simply mean that people touching the boots in the store didn't like the way they felt?  Or do you mean that some skaters have actually purchased the boots and didn't like the way they handled during actual skating?

[Jenna]

The microfiber lining definitely feels different.  I have Jackson Elites (the new 5200 version) and skate barefoot now, which I never did before.  The microfiber lining made my tights bunch and pull and I had to put my boots on at least twice before lacing to adjust my tights.  I had the same problem with my Edeas, which also has a microfiber lining.  I had clarino lining on my boots prior and prefer that lining. 

[tothepointe]

The microfiber upper definitely doesn't feel like traditional leather. It has a slightly rubbery/velvety feeling. I can see that people might feel it's "cheap".  It's not as bad as I expected. The waffle weave lining is very similar to a running shoe. I'm hoping the texture will help prevent slipping. Longevity wise I'm not sure if anyone really knows yet because they haven't been out for that long. I don't expect a $300 boot to last forever though. We will see if it's truly cut resistance shortly.

I think if you like a really traditional feeling boot this is not for you. If your wanting a really lightweight boot like the Edea this is also not for you. Weight wise mounted it comes in the same as both my Riedell 910LS and the Jackson Freestyles.

[Christy]

  <<Emphasis added>>

Could you please explain what you mean by "microfiber feel"?  Do you simply mean that people touching the boots in the store didn't like the way they felt?  Or do you mean that some skaters have actually purchased the boots and didn't like the way they handled during actual skating?

They weren't specific, but I thought they meant how they felt when skating. That said I did think the outer felt very odd, and I didn't like it, but that may have also been because they felt much heavier than I recalled my Elites feeling.

[tothepointe]

A few weeks isn't long to get much feedback especially regarding the on ice experience. I'm starting my breaking in experience tomorrow.

[sampaguita]

I'm gonna need a split-width Freestyle. I currently have a 4.5B, and though the heel is good, the ball is too narrow.

To those who have tried it: would a R-size Debut be enough for me, or do I have to go with split width as well?

[tstop4me]

A few weeks isn't long to get much feedback especially regarding the on ice experience. I'm starting my breaking in experience tomorrow.

Absolutely agree.  The real test is how well skaters like them after they've skated on them (which is why I asked for clarification on Christy's Post #14).  Although, if skaters are turned off by them for whatever reason upon casual inspection or handling in the shop, they won't buy them in the first place.  One skate pro told me that many of his teen girl customers (a large chunk of his figure skate clientele) shy away from Jacksons because they look clunky but are drawn to Edeas because they look so cool.

[tstop4me]

I'm gonna need a split-width Freestyle. I currently have a 4.5B, and though the heel is good, the ball is too narrow.

To those who have tried it: would a R-size Debut be enough for me, or do I have to go with split width as well?

The best way to find out is to go to an authorized Jackson fitter, who will take measurements and tracings of your feet and send them off to Jackson.  They will then tell you whether the stock boot will do, or whether you need semi-customs.  Also, refer to previous Posts #11, 12, and 13; it's not clear (at least to me right now) what last the new Debut is built on.

[Jenna]

One skate pro told me that many of his teen girl customers (a large chunk of his figure skate clientele) shy away from Jacksons because they look clunky but are drawn to Edeas because they look so cool.

That's funny.  I never thought Jacksons looked clunkier than any other brand, but think that Edeas (the Piano, specifically) look far clunkier for whatever reason.  I totally see the appeal of Ice Flys for teens, though.  I want them as an adult and know how bad Edeas feel on my feet already.

[ChristyRN]

I'm gonna need a split-width Freestyle. I currently have a 4.5B, and though the heel is good, the ball is too narrow.

To those who have tried it: would a R-size Debut be enough for me, or do I have to go with split width as well?

I think you have to go higher to get a split width. I had Competitors and had to go up to Premieres to get split width.