Costs of your own ice rink :)

[Query]

I thought this would amuse a few of you, though for most of us it is all a pipedream.

http://www.customicerinks.com/plan-FAQ.html lists a cost of $25,000.00 usd to $150,000.00 usd for a small portable outdoor (roll-out) ice rink, including refrigeration equipment. More for full size ice rinks.

Plus running costs of about "approximately $.30 per square foot, per month over a 4-5 month season"

(It is a Canadian company, but they lists U.S.D. prices, which might mean they sell in the U.S. too)

That's a lot. But in some urban areas, the cost of a home is over $1 million. Maybe some people can afford it.

Of course, if your climate is cold enough to dispense with refrigeration, you can build a lot cheaper - some rinks sell for as little as a few hundred dollars.

"Synthetic ice" is somewhere in between naturally and artificially cooled real ice rinks in cost, though be sure to include the cost of sharpening blades every 30 minutes or so of skating and replacing blades every 15 - 20 hours or so, because it is more abrasive, and based on my very limited experience, it doesn't feel much like real ice.

I don't know what roller rinks cost, but some people skate on ordinary hardwood floors in their homes. But if you look up "WIFSA World" competitions on Youtube, the top end of "inline figure skating", it is obvious that inline figure skating doesn't look all that much like ice figure skating - though it is possible most of the best athletes gravitate towards ice.

A few other websites (not comprehensive):

http://www.hpurchase.com/backyard.htm
Back Yard Rinks (ice)

http://www.backyardicerink.com
The Back Yard Ice Rink

http://www.kwikrink.com
Kwik Rink (synthetic)

http://www.coldproducts.com
ColdProducts (including ice and EZglide synthetic)

http://www.pathcom.com/~mns/icepage1.htm
Ice-Nook (synthetic)

http://www.arenawatch.org
ArenaWatch.org The One Million Dollar Enclosed Ice Rink

http://www.customicerinks.com
Custom Ice Rinks (real ice)

BTW, ice rinks take a lot of work and equipment to maintain.

Community and commercial rinks have a lot of extra costs, due to liability and dealing with the public.

To give you some idea, someone told me it costs at least $2 million or more to build a very minimal full size indoor ice rink suitable for the public near Washington, DC. $20 million may be more typical for a nice 2 ice sheet facility - e.g., see

  http://www.bizjournals.com/washington/breaking_ground/2014/02/dc-eyes-new-larger-indoor-ice-arena.html

A high end ice surfacer from Zamboni costs about $100,000. (Needless to say, if you build your own rink, you are likely to make do with a water hose, or something not much fancier.)

Single ice sheet community-run rinks near Washington, DC seem to cost about $2 million / year to run, about half of which is subsidized by the community. And that doesn't include hidden subsidies, like not paying taxes and/or leases on land, buildings, equipment, and debt repayment - I wouldn't be surprised if that is worth $1 - $3 million more / year, that private ice rinks have to add to their costs. For the most part, private ice rinks don't do very well economically, unless perhaps the people managing the rink have also organized the local hockey leagues, and can direct league business to ther rinks. Even with that, single ice sheet private facilities rarely do well.

[riley876]

For my DIY roller rink:

I bought 9 sheets of 4' x 8' x 3/4" tongue and groove marine hardwood plywood for about US$50 each.  I only bothered with plywood because a needed to cover a slat deck (which I skated on for a while, but it's less than ideal, and you can't skate roller skates on slats at all).   If I had the room a simple concrete pad would have done the job.   The PITA with using plywood outside is that you need to cover it so it doesn't get/stay wet or get UV baked, or the plywood will warp/disintegrate quickly, even the marine stuff.

High level inline free skating looks like this, if anyone is interested:

http://firs.rollersports.tv/video/?videoId=e-5032

At least here (and in the context of the above clip), most competitive inline skaters come from the roller skating world (rather than the ice world), so they tend to bring roller style to inline.   e.g. they love that travelling threes into spin thing that EVERY roller freeskater in the world does.   Some even use unrockered skates (Synder Triax etc),  which most ice skates would find absolutely awful.   And there is no inline dance for reasons I can't comprehend.

As a practice tool, inline is fine.  It's not exactly the same as ice, but the basic skills ARE immediately transferable from/to ice.  Roller skating less so (but it's incredibly educational nevertheless.  in particular it will teach you not to fight your skates).

[Bill_S]

A nearby city purchased one of the seasonal outdoor rinks and installed it in a park during the Christmas season. It lasted one year.

Someone broke into the storage shed containing the copper cooling tubes and stole them for their scrap metal value. The city did not replace the rink.

So sad.

[Query]

I should clarify what differences I notice between inline and ice styles.

Spins and jumps don't seem as fast, and they don't check as strongly. I.E., they keep rotating a bit after the move is over, and use unclean looking form to end that rotation.

Also, the jumps seem to be timed differently - i.e., they start the rotation while still on the floor.

I do wonder if either or both of these differences has more to do with the number and skill of the best athletes involved, or it might be a deliberate style thing, then with the type of skate...

BTW, there is roller dance. A lot of ice dance patterns came out of the roller world, and there is competitive compulsory, pattern and free roller dance. I think it is mostly on quad skates, but am not sure if inlines are allowed.

In contrast, artificial (plastic) ice skating looks a lot like real ice skating, when the pros do it - though when I tried it, I found I'm not strong enough to transfer ice skating skills to artificial ice.

E.g., from a brief web search, see

  http://www.rollerdance.com
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artistic_roller_skating#Dance
  http://skatelogforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=14

Wow - some inline skate don't have rocker? I've tried both quad and inline skates a little, and it seemed to me it required more effort to turn and spin - I don't see how you could do it well without rocker. What makes that possible?

[riley876]

I should clarify what differences I notice between inline and ice styles.

Spins and jumps don't seem as fast, and they don't check as strongly. I.E., they keep rotating a bit after the move is over, and use unclean looking form to end that rotation.

Also, the jumps seem to be timed differently - i.e., they start the rotation while still on the floor.

I do wonder if either or both of these differences has more to do with the number and skill of the best athletes involved, or it might be a deliberate style thing, then with the type of skate...

I think you're right, and it's a combination of both of these factors.  The standard is definitely lower in the roller/inline world (e.g. Silvia Nemesio's high-nines performance that I linked to in my tibial torsion thread,  would not be considered world class in the ice world).   

It's definitely harder work on wheels though,  and the management of rotational momentum is totally different on rollers, and is somewhat different on inlines.    Yes, I've noticed roller folks usually don't check well, because they can just kill rotational momentum by putting four wheels down and engaging the core.   

Another difference is that in the roller world jumps are landed essentially flat, because toe stops tend to not slide very well, and this changes the look too.

Here's a clip of Jason Sutcliffe, who was a high level roller AND inline AND highish-level ice skater.  This is probably about as good as it gets on rollers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBduZBEGxrs

BTW, there is roller dance. A lot of ice dance patterns came out of the roller world, and there is competitive compulsory, pattern and free roller dance. I think it is mostly on quad skates, but am not sure if inlines are allowed.

I know, I took some lessons off the NZ champ roller dancer.  Watching her skate in person is quite a thing.   AFAICT there are no high level competitions for inline dance.   Youtube is also bereft of any footage.   Though some roller clubs might allow you to sneak in on inlines in club level competitions.

And unlike the ice dance world, they're coming up with new compulsory dances all the time, e.g.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CmaWUrj82w

( look for the fancy toe-to-toe ("inverted") mohawks and choctaws ).

Wow - some inline skate don't have rocker? I've tried both quad and inline skates a little, and it seemed to me it required more effort to turn and spin - I don't see how you could do it well without rocker. What makes that possible?

Yes, Synder Triax, which was primarily marketed to roller skaters.  I suspect some roller skaters liked it because it doesn't show up insufficiencies in rotational momentum management.   I don't know how they spin on these either.  But you can definitely turn by essentially unweighting them almost completely (i.e. NEARLY, but not quite jumping).   Personally I can't see the point of these,  you'd be better off on rollers.   Most modern artistic inlines are heavily rockered though, e.g. Snow Whites, PIC skates, Off-ice skates.

In the end though, yes, there is no exact substitute for ice skating (even on a synthetic surface),  but does that matter?  If ice skating did not exist,  you'd all be roller/inline skating and having just as much fun as you currently do on ice.   It's different, but it's not wrong.   And in some ways they're actually more fun.

[Query]

Just looked at your Jason Sutcliffe link. I've changed my mind. He DOES make it look like ice skating. Maybe we should all switch? Maybe the IOC should too? 

[riley876]

Just looked at your Jason Sutcliffe link. I've changed my mind. He DOES make it look like ice skating. Maybe we should all switch? Maybe the IOC should too? 

I think that's because A) he had already achieved relative greatness in ice skating and B) he's just really good.

Some more of him:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXVWu2dev-I   Ugly, but still, a triple flip on quad skates at 43!.   Interesting that of all 3 types of skating he's done, he now only skates (and coaches) on rollers.   Just showing that ice isn't necessarily inherently the most enjoyable.

But yeah, I am getting a lot out of skating all 3 types of skates.  They have all have taught me something that the others could not have, particularly about the control of rotational momentum.   They continue to do so, every session.   And I'm not finding that success on one messes up the others because, at least at my current fairly low level, the right way simply works on all 3.   At least for the stuff I do.

[riley876]

Maybe the IOC should too? 

One of the local roller skaters posted some "meme" on facebook about how great it would be if roller skating was in the olympics.   I had to point out to them what they'd have to give up to make it olympic (i.e. TV) friendly:

- Kiss goodbye to figures
- Kiss goodbye to solo dance
- Kiss goodbye to the variety of compulsory dances
- Kiss goodbye to a sane 10.0 scoring system
- Kiss goodbye to artistic inline
- Kiss goodbye to fours skating
- Kiss goodbye to competitive group show skating
- Kiss goodbye to synchro
- Kiss goodbye to adult competitions
- Kiss goodbye to competitions that are as much social events as competitions
- Kiss goodbye to bottom-up club-based organisation/autonomy.

(This didn't go down too well, BTW, LOL)

Yeah sure all these interesting things could still exist, but like on ice it'd all end up a niche inside a niche, and therefore would die.  Like ice where everything that's not on the Olympic track has been thrown away.