Edea vs Jackson?

[cherry]

Overture vs Competitors?

I'm currently skating on second-hand Jackson Classiques and I think I need a new pair of skates. From where I live, however, there is only one skating shop which sells figure skates and they only have Edeas and Jackson brands. I'm looking to buying either Jackson Competitors or Edea Overtures because they're just of the same price but I'm still a beginner skater (like Alpha beginner) but I wanted to invest on really good skating shoes because I'm having a hard time using my first skates (the soles/the brown stuff of the left boot are coming apart from the actual boot and the blades (right and left) were already greyish black--I think they're rust?? And I haven't had them sharpened yet either since I bought them so I don't know if it's just a temporary problem). Anyway, I know I would be over booted if I buy either of the two but I also don't think downgrading is practical since I'm really determined to reach at least the FS level and continue. I'm already 18 but I weigh around 50 kg so I'm not sure if the softer skates would give enough support either. They no longer sell Jackson Classiques here either and they only have Mystique for Jackson and Chorus and Ice Flys for Edea (which are already way way out of my budget). Sooo any suggestions or advice regarding my decision of buying new skates or do I just try to sharpen the blades of my Classiques or you think it's also hopeless? I would really appreciate any input!
Thanks so much!

[DressmakingMomma]

Have you been able to put your foot in both skates? Does one feel distinctly more comfortable then the other? Finding a proper fit will help guide your decision as that is first priority.

The nice thing about the Edea boot is that you can't overboot, so you could potentially buy something stiffer then you need, have it last a good while, and still progress in learning skills. If you overboot in another brand then the stiffness may affect how you are able to learn.

Some people have complained that the Edea boots don't hold up as well as the Jackson boots so that may factor into your decision. My daughter hasn't had that problem but she is in the Ice Fly and tends to outgrow her skates in 6-7 months. I also have a friend who moved her daughter into Edea Chorus boots and out of the Jacksons because she kept ripping the boot from the sole at the heels. She is only 8 but landing her first three doubles and skating at least 15 hours a week, so in their experience the Edeas have held up better. I guess that doesn't probably help much, but just goes to show that different people have widely different experiences with the various boot brands. It is such a personal preference on what is going to work for you. Good luck in your decision!

[cherry]

Thank you very much for your comprehensive reply! Yes, durability is actually one factor for me since I really wanted to get the most value for my money. I heard of skaters in my place skating on their Jacksons for 3 or 4 years but the break-in was also an issue for some of them (like some even outgrew their skates before they broke in). While those with Edeas only last them for less than a year. I skate 4-5 hours a week and I'm afraid that if the boots were too stiff for me they would give me serious foot injuries. But the Classiques worked out pretty well for me in terms of fitting since I have wide feet The shop is also about to phase out their Jackson brands this week which makes me consider trying on Edeas already. Another thing I'm considering is that I purchase the competitors and have them as my spare shoes while I break-in on them as I progress (in the meantime endure on my Classiques) and use them when I am already on the appropriate level. But since you told me about your experiences with Edeas, I'm starting to see them in a different light now. I am yet to try them on this week when I get back to our rink and hopefully feel a significant difference between the two (since the feel of the boot is also important for me). Also I'm wondering if Edeas have leather soles and are heat moldable just like Jacksons? Thanks again!

[nicklaszlo]

The classiques sound unsafe and are probably not worth fixing.

Don't limit yourself to what your skate shop has in stock.  If they are any good they can order you boots. 

I would not worry too much about over-booting.

[DressmakingMomma]

Edeas are stiff at the sides and are not meant to flex at the ankle - the higher level the boot, the stiffer the sides are and the more padded they are. The flexibility comes from the design of the tongue and how the skates are tied. That's why a relatively beginner skater (my daughter has her singles only) can skate in the same boots that somebody could jump triples in. If you tie them too tightly and start forcing them to flex at the ankle where they were never meant to flex, then you break down the ankle support prematurely.

My daughter hated how traditional boots felt like concrete and really appreciates the way the Edeas hold her heel securely but are a bit looser (for lack of a better word) at the top and toes and let her bend her knees deeply without fighting against the boot. Some people don't like that feeling at all and want their boots to feel very tight. Neither is incorrect, just different.

Her skate tech did not recommend the Overtures because he didn't think they would last for her and so she had to choose between the Chorus and the Ice Fly. She liked the padding in the Ice Fly better and how it felt overall, so that is what we went with. They were pricey, but still less then our other option, which was a custom boot. She can't wear anything stock because of her foot shape.

The Edea has plastic soles, not leather. The boots are not made of leather, but of some kind of carbon fiber material which is why they are so light. You don't heat mold them in the same way as another boot, if you put them in the oven you will wreck them. It is very easy to fit them to your feet using a hair dryer so long as they are the right size to start with. My daughter's current Ice Flies were punched in four places for ankle bones, the heels were squeezed in, and punched where she had small bunions developing from a previous pair of ill-fitting skates. After three hours of working with the tech, the fit was perfect!

Hope that helps! We are pretty big fans of these boots because my daughter really struggled in other skates and these have worked out very well for her. She is on her second pair and will probably stay with them as long as she is skating.

[cherry]

Thak you so much DressMakingMomma and nicklaszlo! I'm leaning towards the overtures now and I hopethey would help me progress better!

[amandascw]

I have Overtures. I definitely recommend them for you because they're above your level like you want but still comfortable and soft. But I've never tried Jacksons. Good luck!

[4d10s]

i thinking to get Overture also with my old MK Vision blade because im only doing footwork now (own leisure) no jumps.  pls give me some advice too.

[singerskates]

If you pronate stay away from Edea, Riedell is better for those of us who pronate.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[amy1984]

At this level, I'd go with the Jackson unless you have a good Edea fitter.  To me, it just wouldn't be worth the hassel.  Jackson is easy to wear.  Heat mold and go for most people.  I can see the advantage of Edea if you're a higher level skater or if you have issues with fit in other boots and have access to someone who knows how to work with Edea.  But just coming out of a classique... I'd stick with Jackson just for the convenience factor.

[cherry]

My Classiques just broke down!
I will be trying on new boots this Saturday. I hope I get the right ones! Thank you so much for your comments/replies!

[cherry]

[UPDATE]
Unfortunately, the shop didn't have Edea Overtures which fit me right and told me they would still have to order them (which should take at least a month or two). And since my old boots gravely need replacing (the sole of the left boot had already separated from the boot) I thought I could not wait that long. They had me try their Jacksons (Elle and Competitor; I didn't know they had Elle!!) and both fit me just right although the Competitors are half a size bigger* than the Elle. They actually fit just like my old Classiques only more snug and secure(?) so I guess that's a good thing. Personally, I like the Competitors better however, the seller told me that the Elles would be better for me (and my level I guess) and the break-in process would make the boot (Competitor) feel a lot bigger eventually and would hurt me a lot. In the end, I got the Elles and I am quite satisfied with my decision although it wasn't as stiff as my previous pair and the laces seem like they are a little shorter than they should be. But that could also be because I am not tying them tight enough so I'll have to check on that after a few more days or weeks of getting used to. I would really appreciate comments about my decision or experiences with Jackson Elles if ever you had them before or are currently skating on them




*they do not have a 5 1/2 C size for the Competitors which is my current boot size

[skategeek]

I moved up from Classiques to Elles last year and I've been very happy with them.  I went down from 8C to 7B; the Classiques were way too big for me.  The boots were fantastic- basically no break in period.  The laces did seem short at first but they stretched out pretty quickly.  Took forever to get the blades set properly, but that was a matter of finding the right skate tech to help me.  (Look back through my old posts if you want to see the whole saga.)  I'm not very hard on my skates; still working on basic skills and just started a waltz jump.  Hopefully these will last me a while.  Good luck with yours!

[cherry]

@skategeek that's so cool! I was gonna ask about the break-in period because I heard it was supposed to be really long and really painful for Jackson skates but I don't seem to feel it either whenever I'm trying the boots on. But I've only done it at home so far since I haven't skated for more than a week now since the start of the holiday break. I hope the convenience also applies in the rink once I get back! I can't wait to try them on actual ice!

[tstop4me]

@skategeek that's so cool! I was gonna ask about the break-in period because I heard it was supposed to be really long and really painful for Jackson skates but I don't seem to feel it either whenever I'm trying the boots on. But I've only done it at home so far since I haven't skated for more than a week now since the start of the holiday break. I hope the convenience also applies in the rink once I get back! I can't wait to try them on actual ice!

You'll often read warnings about overbooting:  if you're just starting out, advanced freestyle boots are too stiff, you'll never bend your knees and ankles properly, you'll never break them in.  I think that was generally true of many older generation boots (say, before the early 2000's), but not necessarily generally true for many current generation boots (exceptions apply, of course).

With respect to breaking-in boots, stiffness is just one factor.   As you advance up the model line, the stiffness generally (but not always) increases.  But break-in also depends on other factors, such as overall fit and extra design features:  the more the boot initially conforms to your foot, the less break-in required.  As you advance up the model line, you will generally get better fit and more design features, resulting in less break-in time. 

For example:

(1) Your instep-ankle-shin follows a curved contour along the front.  Lower models have one-piece straight tongues; requires more break-in to conform to the curved contour.   Advanced models have two-or-three piece tongues stitched together to form a curved tongue; less break-in required.

(2) Your heel-ankle-calf follows a curved contour along the back.  Lower models have a straight backstay; requires more break-in to conform to the curved contour.  Advanced models have a curved backstay; less break-in required.

(3) Your ankle bones protrude.  Lower models have flat sidewalls along the sides of the ankles; requires more break-in to create clearance for the ankle bones.  Advanced models have pre-punched ankle pockets that accommodate the ankle bones; less break-in required.

(4) For deep knee bends, you need to flex the ankle of the boot front to back.  Lower models have continuous sidewalls along the sides of the ankles; requires more break-in to flex.  Advanced models have ankle notches; less break-in required.

(5) [Specific to Jackson]  Jackson has found that many skaters have a narrow heel width relative to their toe width.  Critical fit depends on a snug heel.  Lower models use a single-width last; a snug heel can result in cramped toes; break-in may be difficult, and the toe box may need to be stretched out.   Advanced models use a split-width last; a snug heel is paired with a wider toe box; no toe cramping, less break-in required.

And consider some design features that lead to more comfort from the start and reduce break-in:

(1) Tongue lining.  The tongues of lower models are unlined or lined with thin fabric or thin sponge rubber; can lead to severe lace bite.  The tongues of advanced models are lined with thick sponge rubber (1/2" or so); greatly reduces lace bite and hugs the contour of the instep-ankle-shin more snugly.

(2) Boot lining.  The interiors of lower models have thin or no padding and thin or no lining; less comfort.  The interiors of advanced models are heavily padded and heavily lined; more comfort.

(3) Ankle collar.  The top edges of lower models are unfinished; they initially cut into your shin and calf until they break in and soften (which may be never in some boots).  The top edges of advanced models are finished with a rolled and padded collar; much more comfortable and way less break-in required.

I grew up with the older generation (pre-early 2000's) Riedells (the line has since been totally revamped):  started with the 220, then went to the Gold Star, then went to the Royal.  The classic Gold Star was infamous for being difficult to break-in; I (and most skaters I knew) complained about bloody shins and calfs (the current Gold Stars are much improved).  About a year ago, I started skating seriously and started private lessons.  I got the Jackson men's Elite Suede (the Jackson men's line and women's line are slightly different; the men's Elite Suede is roughly on the level of the women's Elite 4200); this is an advanced model, just below their top-of-the line Elite Supreme; it's rated for double jumps  I'm concentrating on edges and spins; I don't jump beyond half-jumps.  But the Elite Suede took very little break-in because of the good fit and design features.  If the Jackson line is a good fit for you, don't be concerned about moving up to advanced models when it comes time for your next pair.

Good luck with your new boots; and, above all, have fun!