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Author Topic: Head injuries - How often have you seen them?  (Read 20365 times)

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Offline riley876

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Re: Head injuries - How often have you seen them?
« Reply #50 on: February 11, 2015, 03:55:29 AM »
Interesting half hour documentary on concussion in sports and long term effects (not directly skating related).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05102tf

Offline riley876

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Re: Head injuries - How often have you seen them?
« Reply #51 on: February 16, 2015, 09:33:59 PM »
And another month - another head smack.

Hockey girl (woman really) skating backwards (via usual ugly hockey inside edge butt wiggle technique),  without looking over her shoulder AT ALL,  skates into older guy,  who also was learning to skate backwards and wasn't looking over his shoulder either (but to be fair he was nearly stationary at the time).     He falls backwards onto butt and smacks head moderately and she falls over in semi-controlled way.

Luckily he was wearing a helmet.   Crappy blue rink freebie helmet, but nevertheless he seemed ok (though a bit shaken).

Saw this idiot hockey girl skating backwards without looking numerous times even after this.   Saw her almost took out one of her hockey friends too.   I had a friendly word with her that she MUST look over her shoulder.   To no avail it seems.   >:(   

Offline celia

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Re: Head injuries - How often have you seen them?
« Reply #52 on: March 15, 2015, 04:14:15 PM »
I've seen it a few times, but rarely.  This week I was the one that hit my head.  Doing the first mohawk of the five-step sequence, of all things.    I've hit my head skating maybe 3 times in my life, all like this one - kind of a brush of the head and slight knock but no substantial impact.  And each time it was doing something run-of-the-mill and came out of nowhere.  My coach thinks I stepped on the heel of my blade.  I admit I got up and kept going because I was immediately more concerned about getting the most out of my lesson and then going to work than anything else. 

However, twice in my life I think I might have had a concussion - once from a volleyball and once from a soccer ball accidentally kicked up into my face point-blank.  Both those times it took a little time to get back up and were followed by light nausea and dizziness and general lack of coordination.  And if that had happened on the ice this week, I would have stopped and seen a doctor. 

I think, though I'm not sure, that the times I've seen it the fall has been caused more often by footwork than by jumps.  A fall from a jump gives you more time to recover mid-fall, whether it is to get your feet under you so they hit the ice first (tailbone first seems to result in the head smack) or because there is just enough time for your body to realize it is happening and reflexively tuck your chin down.

Offline sk8lady

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Re: Head injuries - How often have you seen them?
« Reply #53 on: March 15, 2015, 07:02:00 PM »
Seen many times, plus a number at hockey games (DS played all through school), and had two minor ones--one from getting whacked under the head by a kid wearing a helmet suddenly standing up (before USA Hockey mandated coaches wearing helmets) and knocking me across the rink, and one falling forward on my face from a misshapen salchow. A helmet wouldn't have helped either time, but most of the falls I've seen have been people falling over backwards and whacking their heads. A helmet reduces the impact and the concussions tend to be less serious. The serious concussions I've seen in hockey are from a hard elbow to the side of the head by the ear, where there is no protection, or heads getting slammed into the boards sideways.
A helmet would also have protected the head of the coach I skated with who fractured his skull falling headfirst into the boards.

Offline dlbritton

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Re: Head injuries - How often have you seen them?
« Reply #54 on: March 15, 2015, 09:17:17 PM »
Not directly skating related but relevant to the topic.

This weekend I personally experienced 2 episodes where I was glad I wear a helmet skiing and snowboarding. Saturday night I hit a patch of ice snowboarding and was basically slammed down on my back where I felt my helmet bounce off the ice. Not sure if it would have been a concussion but it sure would have hurt. Today I was on skis learning to slide on a box in the progression park (a box is a sheet of teflon or plastic about 12" wide and 10-12 feet long supported by a big metal frame) and when I went off the far end I fell back and my helmet hit the corner of the frame. Not a real hard blow because my helmet wasn't damaged but my skull certainly would not have fared as well.

This convinced me of the worth of always wearing my helmet on the snow, even when it is in the 50s (or above) and I am sweating like crazy.

I have been thinking about getting a Craschie (sp?) or similar to wear when I skate. My ski helmet would be too heavy I think.
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Offline riley876

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Re: Head injuries - How often have you seen them?
« Reply #55 on: March 15, 2015, 09:31:03 PM »
What sort of foam does your helmet have?   

I ask, because most standards rated helmets use rock hard polystyrene foam, that doesn't compress a jot unless it's a very big hit.

Did you feel it compress?

Offline dlbritton

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Re: Head injuries - How often have you seen them?
« Reply #56 on: March 16, 2015, 06:53:19 AM »
My ski helmet does have hard foam with soft foam inserts to adjust the fit. I don't think it did compress. That said the foam was softer than the ice would have been. I think they are more for protection from external objects (trees, metal frames on terrain park gear, snow guns, etc) as opposed to concussion protection (my opinion only) or to at least reduce the force received from hitting something. I never thought much about concussion protection before reading threads on this forum.
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Offline riley876

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Offline Neverdull44

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Re: Head injuries - How often have you seen them?
« Reply #58 on: May 05, 2015, 01:18:52 PM »
Sad.  Wear the cord when on a treadmill. Mandatory for captains of small boats.

Offline Query

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Re: Head injuries - How often have you seen them?
« Reply #59 on: May 07, 2015, 12:49:18 PM »
Sad.  Wear the cord when on a treadmill. Mandatory for captains of small boats.

I think wearing a cord (to a kill switch, I guess) on a treadmill might create a lot more hazards than not, because the cord could be caught in the mechanism.

It's a lot like the way many sea kayakers wear a cord that connects their wrist or boat to their paddle, so they won't loose it. But in more hazardous whitewater (and maybe surf) paddling, such a cord would very likely strangle you.

Having someone present to go for help might have helped. Much of the kayak community argues that you should never exercise alone, as I guess the treadmill user was doing. But realistically, it isn't always practical or convenient to exercise with others. Many of us sometimes love it when are are alone on a skating session, and would resent someone telling us we can't skate unless and until someone else shows up.

I think you just have to accept that there are elements of risk to any sport or exercise routine. We can try to take reasonable precautions, but if we can't take any risks, life is a lot less fun.

Offline skategeek

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Re: Head injuries - How often have you seen them?
« Reply #60 on: May 07, 2015, 07:38:56 PM »
Any time I'm out like that alone, at the rink (a rare event!) or in the field (woods, desert, etc…) or whatever, in the back of my mind I always think "if something happened to me right now, how long would it be before anyone noticed?"  Doesn't prevent me from doing whatever it is, but I'm aware of it.

Offline Neverdull44

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Re: Head injuries - How often have you seen them?
« Reply #61 on: May 12, 2015, 05:12:11 PM »
I've been lucky enough to skate by myself less than 10 times.   But, I always tell the rink cashier to check up on me every now and again.  Luckily, the session that usually goes empty (Wed at 11:00 a.m.) has a pick-up hockey game on it at 12:15.   So, people start showing up at the adjacent locker rooms around 11:30  I remember hearing a few people on skating forums talking about falling and blacking out after hitting their head, and not coming to so quickly.  So, I prefer to actually have someone on the ice or in the room.

(An unmanned boat with an outboard motor oftentimes circles back to the point it became unmanned due to the propeller's motion.   If the driver is in the water, he's hit.)

Offline twinskaters

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Re: Head injuries - How often have you seen them?
« Reply #62 on: May 12, 2015, 07:17:42 PM »
What an awful thought about the boat. *shudder*

A boy in one of my daughters' class has been doing LTS for the past couple of months on Fridays. The one Friday we weren't there over spring break, he asked his mom to not wear a helmet, because my kids (who have been skating two years) don't. She said yes, and he fell forward, hit his head, and had a bad concussion. It's been over a month and he still has headaches. I feel so bad for him, and oddly guilty because he mostly started skating because of my kids. (I know, that's absurd, and I'm not torturing myself, just feel a little bad.)

Offline AgnesNitt

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Re: Head injuries - How often have you seen them?
« Reply #63 on: May 12, 2015, 07:27:23 PM »
A boy in one of my daughters' class has been doing LTS for the past couple of months on Fridays. The one Friday we weren't there over spring break, he asked his mom to not wear a helmet, because my kids (who have been skating two years) don't. She said yes, and he fell forward, hit his head, and had a bad concussion. It's been over a month and he still has headaches. I feel so bad for him, and oddly guilty because he mostly started skating because of my kids. (I know, that's absurd, and I'm not torturing myself, just feel a little bad.)

My first question about this is: Was he skating with his hands in his pockets?  I know it must happen, but I don't see how you can fall forward and not brace your fall with your hands. Fall backwards and get a concussion, yes. Trip on a toepick/roll forward on a hockey blade and get a concussion when your hands and arms are there to brace you, no. Now I know that everyone will jump in and tell me how they fell on a jump, or a spin, or something and got a concussion. But this is a kid in LTS for two months. That means forward skating. Trip and fall forward with hands in pockets, yeah, I can see a concussion and dental work.

If I had a kid I'd sew their pockets shut. Just saying.
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Offline twinskaters

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Re: Head injuries - How often have you seen them?
« Reply #64 on: May 12, 2015, 07:50:22 PM »
I don't know if he had his hands in pockets or not. Truth be told, he and his mom are a little odd, so I didn't want to ask too many questions! All I know is she said he had a big goose egg on his forehead. But I could him imagine falling, putting his arms out and still snapping his head forward onto the ice.

Offline Neverdull44

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Re: Head injuries - How often have you seen them?
« Reply #65 on: May 13, 2015, 07:02:56 PM »
I thought a goose-egg was a good thing.  The swelling is outside the skull.  My daughter fell on a brick stoop when she was a toddler at Halloween.   We took  her to the ER with a big goose-egg on her head.  This was our first child.  The doctor assured us that she was fine, and a goose egg popping out is much better than no goose egg.

Offline dlbritton

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Re: Head injuries - How often have you seen them?
« Reply #66 on: May 13, 2015, 08:56:04 PM »
My first question about this is: Was he skating with his hands in his pockets?  I know it must happen, but I don't see how you can fall forward and not brace your fall with your hands. Fall backwards and get a concussion, yes. Trip on a toepick/roll forward on a hockey blade and get a concussion when your hands and arms are there to brace you, no.


This was my reasoning for only leaving the 2 rear pads in my Crasche (so it would fit comfortably). I'm not as concerned about a forward fall as I am a backwards fall. Never had a fall (forward or backward) where my head did hit (knock on wood), but after wearing a Crasche for a few weeks I don't feel comfortable on the ice without it now. Same for my wrist guards. 
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Offline twinskaters

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Re: Head injuries - How often have you seen them?
« Reply #67 on: May 13, 2015, 09:17:40 PM »

I thought a goose-egg was a good thing.  The swelling is outside the skull.  My daughter fell on a brick stoop when she was a toddler at Halloween.   We took  her to the ER with a big goose-egg on her head.  This was our first child.  The doctor assured us that she was fine, and a goose egg popping out is much better than no goose egg.

That seems pretty unscientific to me. I can't see how the presence of a goose egg would preclude internal brain injury. But I am VERY glad that in your daughter's case it worked out that way!

Offline amy1984

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Re: Head injuries - How often have you seen them?
« Reply #68 on: May 14, 2015, 12:27:44 AM »
That seems pretty unscientific to me. I can't see how the presence of a goose egg would preclude internal brain injury. But I am VERY glad that in your daughter's case it worked out that way!

This might sound gross and I don't know which signals which, but I've heard people say a certain type of goose egg (squishy vs. non squishy) is an indicator of a certain type of injury.  I'd look it up but it's late and I'm lazy. 

Offline Neverdull44

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Re: Head injuries - How often have you seen them?
« Reply #69 on: May 14, 2015, 10:06:58 AM »
That's what the ER doctor said.  If it bulges out, it's usually ok.  She was crying when it happened, but normal other than the goose egg when we got to the ER.  Kind of like this:  http://kidshealth.org/parent/firstaid_safe/emergencies/head_injury.html  So, he sent us home. 


Offline twinskaters

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Re: Head injuries - How often have you seen them?
« Reply #70 on: May 14, 2015, 02:53:08 PM »
Well, according to the Mom, in addition to the goose egg, he said the walls were wiggling and he had a headache, so it was pretty clear it was more than just a flesh wound. So it's not foolproof. That said, one of my kids used to make a habit of whacking her forehead when she was a toddler, and none of her goose eggs were ever accompanied by worse.

Offline Neverdull44

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Re: Head injuries - How often have you seen them?
« Reply #71 on: May 14, 2015, 04:29:30 PM »
Watch out, the mom will try to sue the Learn to Skate program director/rink . . .

Offline twinskaters

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Head injuries - How often have you seen them?
« Reply #72 on: May 14, 2015, 04:57:35 PM »
Nah, she's not the type. And he was wearing his own skates.

Offline skatermate

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Re: Head injuries - How often have you seen them?
« Reply #73 on: May 20, 2015, 02:42:25 PM »
I wear my Halo HD. I just got it a few months ago. A tad more expensive than I'd like, but it's super comfy and not bulky. I had a major concussion a few years ago and wore a regular Ice Halo after that, but I wanted something thinner.  They finally came out with this new design http://icehalo.ca/products.php?id=28   I saw it on one of the other girls here and just had to have one too! I love it!

I asked them about the whole concussion thing and they say the same thing. The skull hits the ice, the brain keeps moving until it hits the inside of the skull - so they say their products are all designed to slow your head down when it hits the ice and therefore your brain is going slower when it hits the inside of your skull and so you don't get as bad a concussion if you do get one at all. Does that make sense? Seems like it to me, but I've already had a concussion ;-) maybe I'm already damaged haha!~

Offline riley876

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Re: Head injuries - How often have you seen them?
« Reply #74 on: May 20, 2015, 04:00:10 PM »
Pretty much on the point, but technically it's all about the trade-off between stopping distance and stopping force.

Imagine you are pushing a shopping trolley around (one's head), and that shopping trolley contains a pack of eggs (one's brain).

If you drive the shopping trolley blindly, at speed, into a brick wall, the eggs keep going and smash into the front of the trolley. (Very short stopping distance, maybe like a fraction of a millimeter, so the stopping forces are VERY high )

If you drive the shopping trolley at the same speed, but see the brick wall coming, and haul back on the shopping trolley at the last minute, the eggs will still slide forward, but with less force,  i.e. hopefully not enough to break them.    Clearly the sooner you see the brick wall coming, the more gently you can decelerate the trolley, and therefore the less force the eggs experience when they touch the front of the trolley.  Optimally you stop entirely before the actual crunch.

The foam in a helmet/halo/whatever, is providing that last minute controlled deceleration of the head and it's eggs cargo.   Which is why having sufficient foam thickness is SO critical, because it's all about starting the controlled deceleration early enough, i.e. before the brick wall (of head to ice) hits, so the forces are low enough to be survivable.   

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