Avanta Custom Freestyle Skate boot purchase

[OmegaGMT]

Friday morning 1/9 - Bill called and confirmed that Wilson Pattern 99 Revolution blades are on their way

if all goes well the completed skates should ship 1/23 and pictures will be posted ASAP

the skater and myself fill complete the final blade alignment and document our process

[OmegaGMT]

this evening 1/29 7pm ish EST I received a phone call from Will Murillo about the custom skates(boots and blades) I purchased for a skating friend - Will asked us to call with any issues we might have once the boots arrive next week and throughout their life.  I happened to be with the skater and they spoke for between 5 and 10 mins about boot break-in and maintenance - as it was a high volume homework night thus I did not get the details of the phone call but I will get them over the weekend




this means pictures are soon to follow

[Casey]

Looking very much forward to it! Good luck!

[OmegaGMT]

total cost for

custom skate boots
STS casts
Wilson revolution pattern 99 blades
initial mounting of blades
shipping

$1482

[Query]

Oh my.

Can you break those prices down?

[sarahspins]

Oh my.

Can you break those prices down?

Ditto this, depending on the markup of the blades (retail they are $585, but I've seen them priced higher, and the parabolic version commands a premium as well), and extra costs of shipping and such, this might be right in line with "most" custom boot purchases, or it might be way out of line... and it's really hard to tell without being able to see the actual invoice.... seeing just the total is kind of meaningless.

[OmegaGMT]

now the actual charges

I had 2 charges on my credit card

$800 for the custom boots STS Casts and shipping  -  I spent $25 for overnite shipping the casts back to Avanta to beat Avanta being closed for the Christmas Holiday - this cost is not in the $1482
$682 for blades mounting and final shipping

- Avanta asks for less upfront(~$400) to begin a custom boot I asked to pay the full cost up front -  the list price for a custom boot and STS casts is higher$877 so some of this cost may be in the second  charge for the blades of $682  - so even at a market price of $585 for the blades leaves $47 for shipping of the cast kit, the casts, centerline mounting of blades and shipping the final product


editorial below

and this point  I have no issue with a limited production blade in short supply and a custom boot at this price 

please keep in mind we budgeted $1333 for a Riedell Gold Star and the Revolution blades with tax so custom boots cost us ~$150 extra by speaking direct with Avanta

if you look at what you pay for a top of the line boot tossed in the oven and stretched and pulled to fit, $200 plus STS's costs of $28 and a warranty that is 2x as long as all the others and then toss in a bit of skating history and legend - the Avanta custom boot is well priced

the final fit will tell if the $150 was worth it - as we dealt direct with Avanta and did the STS fittings ourselves

I hope that as the arrival date nears and this thread is completed other skaters mostly those a distance away from large skating centers(aka limited dealer support) have the confidence and the information to follow our process and purchase a product designed for them that produces less harm to their feet and they can skate longer with less pain or injuries

[Casey]

Considering I knew skaters spending $1500 on custom skates almost a decade ago, this seems reasonable to me. When I got custom Klingbeil's with gold-plated Gold Seals some years ago it was around $1200 all totalled up and I had to wait about two months due to the blades not being readily available.

Ice time is often $10-15/hour, coaching $60-75+/hour - for a serious skater those costs add up really fast and make the cost of skates seem insignificant. I'll miss Klingbeil's lower pricing but this doesn't seem unreasonable.

Now to hear how they work out for the skater, both initially and as they break in!

[OmegaGMT]

The skates and mounted blades arrived 2/13/15

Link for pictures - there are Picts of just the Avanta's and both the Avanta's and old Riedell Silver Stars both skates have Wilson pattern 99's

https://docs.google.com/folderview?id=0By3C6TVbNrpIbTlsbVpBeVVYR3c&usp=docslist_api

Initial skater report with skates and rockers on

I am more forward
My heals are planted
My toe box is firm and toes are not squished and are comfortable

[rd350]

Nice!  Interesting how much higher the tongue comes up.

Curious about the insoles.  Did you get them at the one store they have listed in Ithica or order online and if so, how measured?  Or did Avanta put them in?

[OmegaGMT]

insoles - default construction

we just filled out the custom boot order form - you can find it in the Google drive links in the beginning of this thread

you choose
boot type - Freestyle, Synchro, Dance
color - white, black, Beige
strength 35-50, 50-70, 70-85, 85+
lining - smooth leather, perforated leather, clarino
sole color - black finish, natural finish, Raw Natural
heel height - standard, or you specify - see page 2 of order form for blade to heel size
tongue hooks - one, two, none
and can make special requests  - there my be a fee - ours were builders signature on the sole and blades - we were only charged for the blades -

I DONOT SKATE. I SKI(35 years)  - I did all the measurements and STS Cast work as a first timer - if you put forth an effort  - measure 3 times and review our video or other STS videos online anyone can complete the custom boot process - without a dealer - PLEASE NOTE - AVANTA WILL GET YOU SOMEONE TO HELP IF YOU DONOT FEEL COMFORTABLE GOING IT ALONE

I created this thread as a project to see if this process could be done without dealer support for those of us in non metropolitan areas

a custom boot lists for $850 plus $28 for the STS cast option and the shipping method you choose to return the finished casts to Avanta

[Casey]

Awesome, thank you for sharing all these details plus the nice pictures of the skates. I really appreciate getting to see e pictures! Interesting insoles - Klingbeil used to come with a leather insole glued into place, I assumed the support onder it was based on the foot impressions they took. I really like mine but never saw or tried these Currex soles before - maybe they help make the boot lighter weight and are an option that can be replaced with leather if the customer desires.

Looks like quite a difference for the skater to adjust to - look forward to hearing how the break-in and adaptation goes for her!

[aussieskater]

Thank you for the update!  Verrrrrrry interested indeed in how straight the heel counter is compared to your skater's original Reidells, and for that matter compared to my current Jacksons.  Also love the look of the heel height - my current boots had the heel lifted (semi custom alteration) when they were made.

Will be waiting for further usage reports with bated breath, as I will soon be at the point of needing new boots and all the boots I can find seem to have quite an exaggerated heel cup compared to the heel (mine) going in them.  I was "blessed" with ankles which hardly curve in at all at the achilles area.  The exaggerated heel cup of my skates is exacerbating achilles tendon calluses, and I'm under orders to change the boots to ease the calluses, or potentially risk them rupturing in later years.

Hope your skater loves the boots.  They're very pretty.

[OmegaGMT]

yesterday(sunday) was a very informative day due to an interesting chain of events

at about noon eastern time I received a phone call from Charles who was concerned about the "gap" in the rockers provided by Advanta.  He noticed the following

1 - the space between the 2 Rockerz parts was more than 2mm
2 - that the springs were not tight enough based on the cut of the Rockerz
3 - that the Rockerz springs were not smiling

my first question was who are you Charles and how did you get my Cell#

Charles replied that he was with Rockerz and that Rockerz are provided with Advanta Custom boots

Charles then also stated that he believed that our Boot had the wrong insole based on the photos provided - now I am thinking TMI

Charles and I talked insoles and he then stated he had spent some time in Clifton Park NY  - we spoke for a while and it turns out Charles knows the Skater's coach

I told Charles we were going to try the skates for the first time at 5pm Sunday

so far our only issue with the Advanta skates in insole height

it turns out Charles is Charles Sinek 2002 US Olympic competitor and a founder and owner of Penguin Specialty Products  - known for Rockerz, Critter Covers and Sk8tape and Zookers

at the rink the rink manager let us use fresh ice to dial in the blade locations at "no charge"

At  Charles' request I took more photos of the Rockerz and the asked our coach to call Charles to say "HI"

Charles and I traded more Pictures of Rockers - confirming quality issues with the Rockers issued by Advanta

We also confirmed with Charles the arch of the insert was too high 

following practice - at home I received a call again from Charles

Rockerz will be sending us new properly cut and sprung Rockerz and our Insole fitment will be addressed

so ........

It turns out Charles is a bit more Involved in Advanta than just an agreement to provide Rockerz to Advanta

Charles is the Brains of the Advanta boot.

1 - the unique foam in the tongue of the skate boot

2 - the Insole

3 - the STS Cast

5 - the laser etching in the bottom of our boots - an Avanta first

6 - the use of Rockerz material in other parts of the boots - watch for Grey, black and red laminates

I will have more photos of rockers and the Insole in the next day or so

so after 12 hours of skate boot ups and downs - I can confidently say to any skater  - Advanta has your back on a custom boot


Aussieskater  and Casey- I will address your comments on the heels, break-in, insoles and adaptation in the next day or so due to my schedule

[OmegaGMT]

Pics of the insole and arch

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0By3C6TVbNrpITl9mU0ozMTIxSHc&usp=sharing

[Query]

I just spoke to Bill Fauver on the phone.

He broke down the $877 for new custom skates (without blades) fit using an STS cast price more: $849 for custom skates, plus $28 more for the STS cast kit when ordered with boots. That's the whole price for the boots if you are fit at the factory - which many of us would assume to be best, though you have to add in travel time and cost. If you are instead fit at one of their designated orthotists, Avanta pays the orthotist's fee.

Also, the blade discount from standard retail when bundled with reasonably high end new blades is $150-$200 - the most at the highest end - in line with what OmegaGMT cited.

Note that at this time, the last is not molded directly from the cast, though they are looking at ways of doing so in the future. (They still use some leather, which means they need a strong enough last material - I think he said they take standard lasts and modify them by sanding them down or add pieces made from something made by Bioform, to make you an individualized last.) I think they take measurements from the cast. That's probably better than letting a third party take measurements, and gives them an opportunity to get everything right if questions arise. It also lets them look at the orientation of the leg if they want to make sure the tilt of the bottom of the feet, because the cast covers part of the leg. Plus, having your own permanent last may mean that future boots will fit almost exactly the same - if you don't grow or change your shape. In contrast, custom boot companies that do temporary mods to lasts, then re-use the last for the next customer, give you slightly different boots every time.

Everything he says shows the company is committed to future innovation, but that the people involved, including Will (Bill?) Murillo and most of Klingbeil's bootmaking team, and soon, Don Klingbeil, have a strong grounding in the skate boot making business. I love what they are saying.

Like Klingbeil used to say, they will not add extra cost for other boot options.

The price sounds quite competitive for what they are delivering, when compared with other custom skate boots.

Those who are getting their skates from them - I'm sure we would love to hear more reviews of completed boots.

[puppie96]

Omega:  I was following this thread with great interest.  Do you have any updates about how she's doing with her new boots?  Thanks!

[OmegaGMT]

sorry for the delay - our schedules have been rather busy - between a visit to Florida, a musical, 12 hr work days mon-sat, and a skater who right now only has time to skate about 1 hour a week due to homework load -damn honors students

- we have the new insoles, they arrived at my office while I was out of town last week

a quick update - remember our only issue so far is insole pressure while on the ice - the issue was not felt while wearing the boots with the Rockerz on around the house

the new insoles are the next size larger- medium up from small in "shoe size" with the same "medium insole(orange)" - this moves the lift to a different point  - we have been instructed to try this and if we still have to much upward pressure we will discuss a "low insole(red)"

it should be noted that when we noticed the new insoles were "orange" like the original and we contacted an Advanta representative at 9:15pm EST with our question about them "being the same" or so we thought  - we had a phone call response the same evening to which I could not respond until 24hrs later

new Rockerz also arrived which we will check for fitment and spring tension this weekend

we are excited to be on the ice this Sunday just to check the fit and pressure issues

we have to touch up some waterproofing issues  - my mistake - I was rushing the heat and the snow seal - and the new Wilson revolution blades have a large area where ice collects - we noticed this on the first time out and need to take extra time to make sure we are protecting the sole correctly - I will try to get pictures of this issue - this issue is a Wilson issue not an Advanta issue

To date Factory Support has been Excellent!


a side note - not related to our boot

if Avanta makes the bottom sole of the boot out of the Rockerz like material they may really have an ice/moisture resistant product - if you see "red" boot bottoms on the ice you are looking at Advanta boots - keep an eye out for this  -also black or grey are possible

[OmegaGMT]

At the rink

The insoles are still painful

coach Dana has removed the insoles and instructed Desiree to boot up

And Desiree is skating on the bare foot bed of the skate just to break in the boot 1950's style.

We are having a great laugh at her expense as the coach had said " this is how we would break in boots when I was your age

From a spectators's view the foot work looks the same even without the comfort of an insole

Spins are looking effortless

[rd350]

Just to put this out there, I was having what I thought were a lot on insole issues and it turns out it was my foot!  (Went for a foot expert PT eval and found this out.)

Never know and I think with me it was somewhat the boot break in that magnified this.  Something to consider if all insoles don't work out.

[OmegaGMT]

a follow up to yesterdays insole swap and todays ice time -  a link to pictures and short videos will be at the end of this post

we were told to immediately contact an Advanta Representative once we skated on the new insoles

we contacted Advanta at about 6:15pm EST and by 7:30pm EST Advanta was on the phone with us as we returned home from skating

Desiree described the too high an arch feeling like standing on a baseball bat

and now Low, size medium(red) insoles are on there way

it is important to note that the support we have received from Advanta has been described by Desiree as " a hot phone" - Saturday nite we had answers with in minutes and to day in just over an hour

and keep in mind that we are not competition contenders,  we just enjoy the sport and thought a custom boot was in our reach given the prices of advanced stock equipment, and only skate 1-2 hours a week

all of our questions and concerns have been responded to within minutes to under 2 hours  - what seem like delays in this process are due to both mine and Desiree's schedules

Avanta and Rockerz have been overly helpful on subjects such as sealing the soles, blade tricks to prevent warping, blade placement, blade tracking,  - there will be more discussion on this in the future

so far after about 1.5 hours of new skate time we have dialed in the blade placement - on fresh ice we have a beautiful sets of railroad tracks

Desiree has easily adjusted to the 1/4" shorter blade and taller heel which places her over the ball of her foot  - and she has done this sans insoles under her Coaches direction

the link below will have pictures of
properly fitted Rockerz
insoles - comparisons, cutting, fitting
naked skate inners
skate tongue
lacing holes
Skater and Coach



https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0By3C6TVbNrpIQjlXR2FzLWxwUkE&usp=sharing

[puppie96]

Thanks very much for the update.

[OmegaGMT]

It has been a busy week with 2 concerts(her side) and 12 hour work days(my side)

New insoles arrived on 3/16/15 - they are the lowest arch  - we have yet to fit them to the skates

We will Fit the insoles this Saturday and with or without insoles Desiree will skate an hour in the skates this Sunday

[OmegaGMT]

To all

sorry for the delay in the updates - I should have more pictures and comments over the upcoming week

the solid arch build into the insoles have been a problem as the skater has a flat foot

I have finally been able to spend some time with the skater to understand the pain she was experiencing and the insole relation to the ankle pocket

the insole heel height and the ankle pocket are directly related in the Advanta custom boot - care must be taken not to alter this relation

more details in the upcoming days 

the skater is now jumping and is happy with the weight reduction and the reduction of the pendulum effect  - the reason we made this equipment choice

[Scamper]

I did not want to start a new thread so here is our story:  My daughter had worn out her Jackson and out skated the Protege blades on them.  After a ton of research and even more hand ringing trying to make the right decision, we packed up the car and went to TN to see Will and the group at Avanta Skating Boots. after an hour of talking and a tour of the plant we were sold and committed to this new venture.  My daughter was molded and it was explained that a "last" would be made of the feet and that is what the skates would be built from.  We had a great time at Advanta and in TN in general!  (if you ever get the opportunity go fun city and Ford ice center is GREAT!)  we were told the skates would take 5 to 6 weeks to be done and delivered.  we waited hardly able to contain our excitement for the arrival of the new skates.  At just under 5 weeks we were called and told there would be an additional week  do to a machine issue.  Hey it happens.  So with a little diminished excitement we waited.  We were finally called and told the skates were done, there was also the apologies for a number of customer service foibles and follies.  Nothing usual from a infant company trying to balance growth with service. They could not have been nicer or more apologetic. Also offering more help and service in the future should we need it.  Not wanting to disappoint or wait any more I had them shipped overnight to me.  When the box showed up, you wold have thought it was like a birthday and Christmas all rolled into one!  These were not even for me!  I opened the box and it was just like the movies think Indiana Jones opening the Ark or and sifi movie opening the and box there was a glow and a light coming out of this box! These are the most beautiful boots I had ever seen. It seems that patten 99's we ordered were not available in time so Avanta sent Pattern 99 parabolics at their expense! I had the opportunity to water proof the soles and had a few issue with that  completely my fault if you want to see refer to skate care thread at the top of this page to see the problems and fixes!!  The biggest issue was my daughter was testing and had her Ice Show this week so we all felt a skate change was not in her best interest. Side not Ice show went very well and She passed her Moves and FS tests!!  I really wanted to wait until she had time to skate in these new boots before posting.  I am happy to report and tell everyone these are great boots no Problems or issues at all.  The blades and the skates are fitting and preforming every bit as expected!  Yes she is getting used to the blades and has lost some skills that should come back very quickly as she acclimates to them.  Ok so here is the low down, everyone that we respect in our skating community have commented on the beauty of these boots and the quality of the material and construction!  in fact two of the coaches have looked into getting themselves a pair.  The boots are heavier that Edeas no question but I am still not sold on the carbon fiber thing. sorry personal preference only. I know that Avanta has been at senior Nationals and other events taking orders, this company will continue to grow and be a force in this sport.  so if you are looking take a look at them and get on it quick they will only continue to get busier and busier and take more time to get your skates.  once you get them as my skater said they are the best ones ever!  Please feel free to ask questions I will try and answer as best I can and will tell you our experiences. Hope this helps!