PSA solicitation policy

[Skittl1321]

(Sorry if this was already discussed- I did a search and didn't see it.)

I saw on facebook today that the PSA changed it's solicitation policy. Solicitation is now only forbidden during lessons, competitions, and tests.

http://www.skatepsa.com/Ethical_Solicitation_Marketing_and_Promotion.html

I really think this is great news! Before it was so difficult to change coaches because you had to leave your coach before you could even begin the process of looking for a new one.

[AgnesNitt]

I'll be frank. I'd be pretty surprised if this happens much to adult skaters. The only time it came close to happening to me was when an old coach commented to me about taking me through a test I'd failed for a retry, and I just took it as a casual comment rather than serious poaching. But let's just say, I'm not a prime target in any way for poaching.

As an adult I've heard a LOT of stories from coaches about other coaches poaching kid skaters though. MAn, talk about bitterness. It's just nasty. And none had ever had PSA do anything when they filed a complaint.

[Skittl1321]

No one has ever attempted to poach me (though we did have a coach at our rink who would suggest to his group lesson skaters he was better than their coaches, and that included me)

However, the old rule made it hell when I was trying to find a new coach.  I didn't know that any of the other coaches would be better for me; but I couldn't even TRY until I formally left my old coach.  So I had to drop my coach, and only then could I discuss trial lessons with other coaches.  If none of those coaches had timeslots available for me, I would have been completely out of lessons.  He wasn't the kind of coach with being okay with knowing you were looking for someone else (another coach for instance actually suggested his own replacement when I had some issues come up.) 

This development might be bad for coaches (because it makes it easier for skaters to coach shop)- but IMO, it is great for skaters.

[Query]

Perhaps I missed it, but I can't find the rule on the PSA website that used to be there that said you or the coach has to inform and consult with your current coach when you take a lesson with someone else. Does anyone know if it is still there?

This rule change might make the skating world even less genteel and more controversial.

After a student tests or competes, coaches of passing and winning students, and their agents could hand them ads, pointing out who won (big motive to create those ads very fast). Code of Ethics Rule #3 says nothing about how you advertise AFTER a student tests or competes. Also, expect to see a lot of emails and Youtube videos.

Do you think it will exert a downward pressure on the rates charged by most coaches, choreographers, etc., but an upwards pressure on the rates charged by the most successful coaches?

>PSA says:
"Coaches should take extra care when promoting themselves to children, and refrain from using psychological tactics to encourage demand. The FTC places special emphasis on truth-in-advertising laws when applied to children."

TV and the Internet teach skepticism very young. I think typical children are at least as skeptical as many of their parents.

[AgnesNitt]

I've had good luck in leaving coaches. Something happened to them and they left just as I was getting ready to move on, so Lucky Me. However, I had to fire a coach. I didn't talk to another coach before hand, and I didn't have anyone in mind. I just was coachless for a couple of weeks until a  coach I liked had an opening. I'm happy with my present coach. Very happy. My skating has really improved.

The problem is that you can leave a coach and consult other coaches and either be turned down flat, or not fit into their schedule. Then you're s*****d.

[PinkLaces]

While I've not had the experience or heard any adult skaters be directly solicited by coaches, I've seen the "rules" used to harass parents and coaches. A rink I used to skate at used it with loose interepretation every other year or so to clean house with their coaching staff. Parents who said only complimentary things about their kids own coaches would get warning e-mails that they were soliciting amoungst the parents. It was crazy.

[fsk8r]

The irony of all this is that as my coach says a skater (and their parents) can only be poached if they have a level of dissatisfaction with the current coach. In which case then there isn't a good coaching fit and it's better for all if they find that better fit.

[Query]

fsk8r, I think it's a little more complicated than that.

Especially for students new to a sport, who would often want to shop around, or try other coaches. The PSA rules were used by many coaches to stop that.

In addition, for many skaters and parents, lessons cost a lot. A few cut rate coaches could take a lot of the students away from many coaches.

Picture Google ads aimed at people in a particular geographic area who search for something with the word "Skating", advertising someone barely able to teach skating; a student or parent fairly new to the sport, might not know how to distinguish that.

Likewise very good teachers can now easily poach. Many, perhaps most, relatively inexperienced students and parents don't recognize the differences are all that great, but with a free lesson offer, they could find that out easily.

Both of those will sometimes be great for students (except perhaps when they get a poor teacher and don't realize it), not so great for their current teachers.

As a slightly similar example, among academic tutors in my geographic area, it used to be that you could get easily $45 to 80 / hour in most subjects. But a few websites that made it easy to shop around has brought it down to more or less minimum wage (because other students have flooded the market), and many tutors are having economic problems.

Another example: I was taking kayak lessons from one well respected instructor. I was reasonably happy with him. Then another kayak instructor aggressively recruited students (which has always been legit in most sports), pointing out he'd been to the Olympics. I tried him out. He turned out to be a much better teacher for me (he was very good at analyzing problems, and at explaining them), even though I didn't need an Olympic caliber coach by any criteria, and to a large extant I switched. In fact, he took over the lion's share of the local kayak instructing market. Again - good for the student, not so good for the original teacher. (The new instructor was much better at teaching than at making a living at it - he underpriced most of the other teachers, including my former instructor, and closed local shop with debts after a few years.)

Another possibility is for opportunistic students to take advantage of many coaches who each offer one free lesson, instead of paying for lessons.

The PSA exists in significant part to make it possible for coaches to make a good living (which is an anti-competitive goal). Of course, they still have requirements coaches must meet, if they are to get PSA or USFSA or ISI insurance, which is required by  most U.S. rinks. That is different from the tutoring market. Nonetheless, except for cut rate or truly outstanding coaches, the rule change could easily hurt the income potential of typical coaches.

[fsk8r]

Another example: I was taking kayak lessons from one well respected instructor. I was reasonably happy with him. Then another kayak instructor aggressively recruited students (which has always been legit in most sports), pointing out he'd been to the Olympics. I tried him out. He turned out to be a much better teacher for me (he was very good at analyzing problems, and at explaining them), even though I didn't need an Olympic caliber coach by any criteria, and to a large extant I switched. In fact, he took over the lion's share of the local kayak instructing market. Again - good for the student, not so good for the original teacher. (The new instructor was much better at teaching than at making a living at it - he underpriced most of the other teachers, including my former instructor, and closed local shop with debts after a few years.)

My coach's point is that you were dissatisfied with how your instructor was teaching you and so were willing to try another one to see if you can get a better fit. If you weren't dissatisfied you wouldn't go looking to try another one.

Perhaps my perspective is different as I come from a country were most skaters enter through LTS and are able to experience different coaches that way before starting privates. And we also have a lesser likelihood of someone barely able to coach as there are minimum skating standards for coaches along with an accreditation process which must be completed before being able to take private students.
There's also less possibility of the financial incentive to move as a lot of rinks set the lesson rates (and the ones which don't you can ask the rink for the different coaches' rates.)

[Query]

My coach's point is that you were dissatisfied with how your instructor was teaching you and so were willing to try another one to see if you can get a better fit. If you weren't dissatisfied you wouldn't go looking to try another one.

I was satisfied, and the old instructor was the one the local paddling clubs recommended. But on a lark I tried out the new one. I didn't realize what I was missing until I did. The old instructor was good, and he had mastered the standard certified teaching curriculum - but the new instructor, who created his own (much of which has since become part of the standard curriculum, because it worked better), was truly outstanding, in a way that an ordinary good instructor who followed the recommended standards couldn't be.

That was an exceptional case - not many coaches and instructors can possibly be that good. But we have all seen skating students who would benefit from another instructor or coach, because the coach was missing something really obvious, or didn't know how to show or explain things clearly to that student. Most of those students probably assume their failures are entirely their own fault, and don't realize another coach could do better, on at least some issues. (Equally true of course in other fields, such as academics.)

Now it will be possible for a coach to approach a student of another coach, point out a way of making something work that the current coach couldn't, and offer their services. Former PSA rules prevented this, but now this approach may become a lot more common, especially for coaches who haven't yet built up a large clientèle, or who are after elite competitive students.

[TDL]

It appears that the policy was changed as a result of an investigation by the Federal Trade Commission (presumably on the grounds that the policy was an  anti-competitive practice, which it appears to be).   

[pegasus99]

If the FTC Investigation is true, then good on them.

The No Solicitation policy only hurt skaters IMO. If you wanted to switch coaches and the circumstances were not pretty, you pretty much HAD to break the rules in order to ensure you didn't get s*****d, as Agnes said.

And this will keep Coaches on their toes, in every sense. Good coaches don't have a thing to worry about.

[AgnesNitt]

I wish Xanboni was still posting. She had a really good rant on this.