Buying new blades . . . .what do you think?

[Nate]

Some boots are made differently. The soles are shorter. Edea is one of those brands. A 10.25 blade fits end to end on my Klings, but hands off of Edeas.

Simmons for that reason can be bad once the blades settle. The leather will compress but the other side will need the materials removed eventually (90% of cases).

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[Neverdull44]

When they made my Harlicks, my foot had grown a size due to two pregnancies.   So, to keep me from buying new blades, Harlick was able to angle my heel in by a hair.  This allowed for 'short' blades then what normally would have been there.   If I get Edeas, I'm betting they will take a longer blade.  If I hate my Edea's, the "new" blade will not retrofit back onto my shortened Harlicks.

[Loops]

When they made my Harlicks, my foot had grown a size due to two pregnancies.   So, to keep me from buying new blades, Harlick was able to angle my heel in by a hair.  This allowed for 'short' blades then what normally would have been there.   If I get Edeas, I'm betting they will take a longer blade.  If I hate my Edea's, the "new" blade will not retrofit back onto my shortened Harlicks.

Oh goodness.  What a conundrum.  You are almost gauranteed blade sizing issues in this case.   You might get lucky though and given what Nate said about the Edeas having a shorter sole be able to keep the same blade size.   fwiw- my feet haven't grown- those Riedells I mentioned earlier never really fit right, and this go-around on my Risports I needed a 1/4" smaller blade.  So if your feet are bigger now, but the edeas take a shorter blade than harlicks normally do, you just might be in luck.  I think though, if I were in your situation, I'd definitely at least consider used blades, if you can find them.  How many more years are you going to get out of your Harlicks?  Assuming you're not going to let your new blades get to the state of your profs, how many years do you think you'll get out if them?

All will become clear when you get to the fitter.  But, if you're feeling curious and have an idea what Edea size you'd need (I'm a size 9 US/40 European, and I'd have taken a 265), then this might help you ballpark.  You won't know for sure until your foot is in the skate though.

http://www.edeaskates.com/en/ice-skates/technical-support/blade-assembly.html

[Nate]

My phone's auto correct is really making me look uneducated :-(

Time for a different keyboard.

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[CaraSkates]

Oh goodness.  What a conundrum.  You are almost gauranteed blade sizing issues in this case.   You might get lucky though and given what Nate said about the Edeas having a shorter sole be able to keep the same blade size.   fwiw- my feet haven't grown- those Riedells I mentioned earlier never really fit right, and this go-around on my Risports I needed a 1/4" smaller blade.  So if your feet are bigger now, but the edeas take a shorter blade than harlicks normally do, you just might be in luck.  I think though, if I were in your situation, I'd definitely at least consider used blades, if you can find them.  How many more years are you going to get out of your Harlicks?  Assuming you're not going to let your new blades get to the state of your profs, how many years do you think you'll get out if them?

All will become clear when you get to the fitter.  But, if you're feeling curious and have an idea what Edea size you'd need (I'm a size 9 US/40 European, and I'd have taken a 265), then this might help you ballpark.  You won't know for sure until your foot is in the skate though.

http://www.edeaskates.com/en/ice-skates/technical-support/blade-assembly.html

I was fitted for Edeas (I think in a 265?) and they told me I'd need a 10" blade - I wear a 10 1/4" on my Riedells right now so I think you might just be in luck with the shorter blade on your Harlicks. I have another friend who went from a 10" blade to a 9 3/4" when she switched to Edeas so it does seem to be about 1/4" different.

[Nate]

Yes if you're a tad bigger than one size in Edea then you would go up 5 cm and then you may luck out and be able to use a longer blade. At same boot length, they generally take a shorter blade.

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[Neverdull44]

I BOUGHT NEW SKATES!  I'll let you know if I like them, but want to give it two weeks before I issue a verdict. 

I bought Edea Ice Fly with Jackson Ultima blade. 

Edea weight per boot with blade:  1 pound 15 ounces
Harlick weight per boot with blade:  2 pounds 15 ounces

Edea blade size:  9.75 (could have gone with a 9.5 too
Harlick blade size:  10.25

Oh, and my Harlicks were a little too big!  That's not Harlick's fault. I bought them 3 months after my 2nd baby was born.  I  had very bad fallen arches (plantar) after the 2nd baby was born and weighed more.   Arches tightened and I lost weight.   So, I think my feet must have been a little bigger than they are now.   

It takes a few hours to get the Edeas feeling pretty perfect.  My big toe is near the front, but not squishing or even touching at the front.   My other toes were crunched, before the stretching.    The time was spent heating, stretching, and then me standing on them.   Plan on 3+ hours for the fitting.    The inner is like a tennis shoe, but the outer is rigid.   They hug everywhere.

The Concerto Edeas are actually alot stronger than the Ice Flys.   (Like, the mafia should buy Concerto's for river burials.) The fitter said that he finds men do better in the Concertos, but they are just too strong for women or girls. 

Fitter said that the Edeas have a higher heel, and this makes for a shorter blade.   The shorter blade is going to make my footwork and moves in the field easier.   I did get the "turning a ski" effect occasionally, especially when trying to do straight line swizzles.   When I was a kid, i had two pairs of skates: figures and freestyle.  If I remember right, my figure blades were dance blades.    The Ultima blades I bought have a 30 day guarantee.   And, I can get them over to the other rink to get them sharpened, even I have to ground UPS them.  Because they are stainless, less sharpening. But, these Ultimas are supposed to make a different sound.   My coach doesn't mind the sound of an edge, but she will not put up with toe picks scratching.   30 day guarantee, we will see.

The Edeas are shorter on the leg, a little more like a dance boot.   Personally, I'd like skates strapped up to my knees.  So, this is something that I am going to have to see about.

Next week, i am resigned to the fact that I will not be able to skate.    I may wear my wrist guards.   With a higher heel and new blades . . . I expect to fall.

   

[Query]

Great!

Such light boots must feel WONDERFUL.

You needn't give up on the Harlicks for size. I'd just put a little tape or foam underneath the current insoles, or add another pair of thin insoles.

If you want knee-high (hah!) boots for more ankle support, can the fitter can modify the fit on top to give you that support by conforming to the ankle area?

[Neverdull44]

Yes, he hugged the ankle area, and I might have to go back for more.   

OMG, jumping in them is alot easier.  I was jumping at the final fitting (not twisting), and they were sooooooo light.  I wanted to yell, "I'm free, I'm free."

[Loops]

I BOUGHT NEW SKATES!  I'll let you know if I like them, but want to give it two weeks before I issue a verdict. 

If I remember right, my figure blades were dance blades.   

The Edeas are shorter on the leg, a little more like a dance boot.   Personally, I'd like skates strapped up to my knees.  So, this is something that I am going to have to see about.

Yay you!!!!!  I hope you love them.  I bought dance boots this time around.  The lower height coupled with the "new" skate design that just doesn't close that tight around my ankles is something I'm still "adjusting" to after a season.  So I understand where you're coming from with "skates tied up to your knee!!"  Hopefully you'll get comfortable in them sooner than me. 

You may have been patching in dance blades, I dunno, but my figure blades are actually a smidge wider than freestyle blades, and while they have more of a toe pick than dance blades they've zero drag pick.  No scratching picks there!  I'm curious what you think of the stainless steel.  I'm now in a situation where my synchro team is sharing ice with a team of skaters that wear hockey skates (ss runners).  Holy cow are their blades loud.  I never really noticed it before from the stands......

And that is a huge size difference in blades.  Pregnancy does funny things, eh?

[Neverdull44]

Skated forward for 1.5 hours. Skated like a beginner.

My right foot was totally comfortable.  Not even a sore spot, and my bauer bump felt great.   My left foot has a super pressure point in the boot that I couldn't feel until I was on the ice.   It's on the inside of my foot, and a place where I have to normally get punched out.  I'm still unsure about the lower profile.  The support is there, but it's like my tendons above the ankle are looking for the boot to control.   I like the feeling of the blade right under my toes.   That's cool.

The blades are the BIG adjustment, and the rocker is the biggest adjustment to the blades.  I had no rocker before, and now I can rock on my rocker.     I did a few outside forward three turns.   Feels like the toe pick is a mile in the front of the boot.   I have to go up, and the blade curves and curves and curves and curves . . and then I hit the toe pick.  Before, I was doing three turns hitting my toe pick.  Now, I can do them without coming onto the toe, but that's going to require retraining my brain.  Glad I got an 8' rocker.  A 7' rocker would feel like a roller coaster at Six Flags.   

At first, I couldn't even drag the blade, it caught in the ice.   It wants to bite the ice, and I only put a 1/2" hollow!   Finally, I was able to do some snow plow stops.    T stops are going to take a week.   Power pulls, the edge just really grips the ice.  Same thing with figure 8s, the blade bites into the ice.   The stainless blade felt different in how it runs.  Overall, it feels faster and bites.  Because it was a public, I didn't hear the blade.

Moral to the story  . . .  .don't let your blades get so worn that you have to relearn basics like T-stops and 3 turns!!!!  Even Edeas are going to have a break in time and you might have a sore spot or two

[sarahspins]

The Edeas are shorter on the leg, a little more like a dance boot.

Almost all modern boots are shorter on the ankle than most boots were 20+ years ago.  I didn't notice that the Edeas I tried on a few months ago were any shorter than the Jacksons I had been wearing were, but I do notice that my custom Harlicks are a little lower at the very back then my Jacksons were - which makes attempting things like spread eagles a little easier.

[AgnesNitt]

Almost all modern boots are shorter on the ankle than most boots were 20+ years ago.  I didn't notice that the Edeas I tried on a few months ago were any shorter than the Jacksons I had been wearing were, but I do notice that my custom Harlicks are a little lower at the very back then my Jacksons were - which makes attempting things like spread eagles a little easier.

I know a woman coach who is close to 6 feet tall but has normal sized feet. Her tales of trying to get boots with a shaft high enough up her calf are epics.

[Query]

Knee high skates:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_Oq7x_sZoa24/SvkAL2rO79I/AAAAAAAADdo/J-PNqQzpMFY/s1600-h/xanadu.jpg

http://www.pinterest.com/pin/113504853078496082/

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Adult-Size-Knee-High-Figure-Skate-Roller-Derby-Ice-Skating-Covers-in-GOLD-/201161221440?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ed624a540



They say ice skates used to be like that.

[Bill_S]

A little visual history...

Even in my lifetime, skates have changed height and design over time. All of these are Riedells, the top and middle are Gold Stars, the bottom skates were Riedell beginner skates (check out the toe picks!). Even they were 3x as expensive as rec skates from the department stores. The oldest skates have 5 lace hooks compared to the other two, and the newest Gold Stars have the lace hooks spaced closer together. (Picture should get bigger when clicked)

[AgnesNitt]

Ooooh, Bill. Those 1977 toepicks are scary!

[Bill_S]

With a pair of figure skates that predated those (but with similar beginner picks), I still managed to take out a friend's two front teeth in the 60s.

We were playing hockey on a frozen pond using tree branches as sticks, and a tin-can for a puck. I fell backwards, and kicked upward just when he fell toward me. The pick hit him in the mouth. It was a bad, bloody scene, and it still makes me cringe. I still feel so sorry for him.

Moral of the story, any toe pick at all is bad news when playing hockey.

[Neverdull44]

I remember having all those creases in my skates in the late 70's.  If the top fell over, flopping like a dog's ear, then the skate was "broken down."    Now, if there is a single, long crease people get weirded out.   

Spent this morning "punching" out my skate.  All it took was a blow dryer and the handle end of a screwdriver and standing in them.  I'm hoping to go skating this afternoon's public session.  I'll take my tools with me.

(Another reason why hockey players, today, wear full face cages.   On my son's mite team, they are in mouth guards (for concussions, as well as teeth), neck guards, and every other guard.   My husband now wears cut proof socks.   He's heard of other players blades coming down on one's boot, cutting it and the achilles tendon.)

[Loops]

Even later, in the 80's we used the same "flop" test for when skates were broken down.  I didn't realise how much skate height had changed.  It's hard to tell from scale, but my 1988-ish Riedell comps are probably comparable to your 2002 gold stars.  THey were uncomfortable, for a variety of reasons, but shaft height was part of it.  I still have scars on my heels.  That was part of the reason I went with dance boots, and given that I still, after a season, am cinching them as tight as possible since I'm looking for that boot to push against a little higher up (like you said earlier), I might very well go back to something freestyle.  But I like the cut out in the back, and it looks like synchro boots are now cut like dance boots at the top.  Not in need right now, but will be looking closely when boot time comes around again.

I'm really curious as to how you evolve with the pattern 99 profile.  I didn't want to spend that much money, so didn't even consider them.  But I'm eager to see how to adapt to that spin rocker.  I never realised that wilson had the 3 diameter profile before (or whatever call it), so I've learned quite a lot through your sharing of experience!  I just looked again at the skate science blades.  I'm very intrigued, in particular because their synchro blade seems to be much better designed (at least on paper, and in terms of what I think I 'd like) than what is generally available......  Wish they were more forthcoming on their rocker length and details of the profile though.

[Nate]

I had literally no adjustment to the Infinity coming from MK Pro, but the rocker has all the right things for me. Not sure how it would work for someone else. Personally my skating got instantly better and looking back at past video I can see exactly why.

The rocker shape is just perfect for how I balance my weight in my skates and on my blade. Some people have a lot of trouble with the spin rocker (and general rocker profile) being flatter and further back, but since I balance there naturally it was a match made in heaven - not just for spins but turns, edging, crossovers - everything.

The toe pick on them is very aggressive, especially the non-plated (i.e. extremely sharp) picks on Riedell blades. You just have to touch the ice to obliterate it. That's the only adjustment, I'm not used to my pick digging so deep in the ice so my jump timing is sometimes off, and since the pick cluster is bigger with a bigger drag pick angle, edge jumps can have the same issue sometimes. But I'm largely over that, now.

If you want the pick cluster similar to a P99 (though slightly smaller) with an intermediate rocker profile, get the MK Vision.

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[Neverdull44]

Thanks Nate.  I am in the Ultima Matrix Elite right now .

I did a side-by-side comparison of my Harlicks verses these Edeas.  The Edeas feel lower on the leg, but they really are not.  I guess it's that they are a soft boot, not broken in, and there are fewer hooks.  So, my Harlicks must feel tighter on my leg, which I translated into being higher on my leg.  I'll post pictures of the side-by-side.

[davincisop]

Those Edeas, I've heard rave reviews about.   So, I am going to a pro-shop in Coral Springs (about 100 miles away) to see a pair of Edeas.   If I get them and don't like them, then I'll be back to my Harlicks. 

Wait, there's a proshop in Florida that carries Edeas!?

[Neverdull44]

Day 2 report.   

Boots
We punched out the skate with a hair dryer and thumb.  I was in 60% less pain on that spot today.  I will punch it a little more tomorrow morning.  My feet tendons are constantly working right now, and I'm not sure if it's the boot or the blade.   They get very tired inside the boot.   It could also be the fact that the boot is still molding to my foot.  The memory foam is comfortable, but gives a little bit of room for my feet tendons to fully flex.    The boots are super light.  I can really lift my legs up and in all directions very easily.   That is going to be a big plus.  I am also really liking having the thinner soles.  Absolutely no blisters!

Blades
They were sharpened to 1/2 inch hollow, just like my old skates.   Tonight at public, the ice was very rough.   The ice had a half inch (or more) of snow on it it was so in need of a zamboni.   In my old blades, I'd be pumping my leg muscles just to get through it.   In my new blades, I had so much bite that I did power pulls in that poor ice without any problem.  I barely had to push, and I glided right across the ice!  My new blades are so much less tiring.   I did try a 5 step mohawk sequence.  That went ok.   The rocker is still weird, but I decided against doing three turns too much.  It was a crowded session, with a few newbie guys skating way too fast for their ability.     I'll deal with backwards and turns tomorrow at an empty public session.

But, the touch of my new blades has to be so light.  In my power pulls, I barely have to push in the knee, much less in the ankle.  In my old blades, I was pushing down in the ankle to try to cut a turn.   On my t stops, I can now drag the blade without it catching.  But, coming to a sliding stop on just my sliding foot and lifting the foot in front . . .I'd bite in and stop abruptly.     If I wanted more pushing (less bite), would I go with a shallower hollow (5/8)?

[sarahspins]

You would get less bite with a shallower hollow but I'd caution against trying that just yet - it's always weird to skate on new blades and boots that aren't broken in, it kind of amplifies problems you'd be expecting with freshly sharp blades.  I intentionally put dull blades (they had been used for about 6 months, I'd had them sharpened about 2 months before I took them off my old boots) on my last pair of new boots to ease the transition - when I finally sharpened those blades 3 weeks later I was able to adapt really quickly since I'd already mostly broken in my boots by then, but I know if I had stepped on the ice with freshly sharpened blades and brand new boots 3 weeks earlier, I would have struggled to stop, and it wouldn't have meant the hollow was wrong, it would be mostly because the boots weren't bending where I needed/expected them to yet.

So I'd personally give it a couple of weeks until your boots have broken in more, and if you are still feeling then like you'd prefer a shallower hollow, then make the change, but doing it now might be a bit premature and you'll shorten your blade life going from a deeper hollow to a shallower one (it removes more metal from the blade).

[Neverdull44]

Thanks!  Will give it a few weeks.  I did better in them tonight, so there is progress!