Lacing skates for proper fit?

[jlspink22]

How do you know when you've laced a skate properly - not too loose or too tight when it's not your own foot? We had a major meltdown at lesson today when the skating director tightened the 4 yr olds skates, which aren't fully broken in, super tight. We ended up attempting heat molding which seems to have worked but I'm just not sure how tight they should be.

I think her left (right viewing) looks too tight here?? Help me!

[Clarice]

Those look great to me, but I'm not wearing them, so I can't possibly tell whether they're too tight.  They shouldn't be so tight at the bottom that her toes go numb, but they do need to be pretty firm around the ankles.  If her foot can move around in the boot, she won't be able to control the skate.  Kids sometimes object because skates feel so different from their everyday shoes.  Really, her coach should instruct you because they can explain what they're trying to do as well as get immediate feedback from your skater.  You can get gel sleeves for her ankles if the tops of the boots chafe when they're properly laced up.  I never skate without mine.

[AgnesNitt]

If the skates are new and not broken in, most people don't tie over the top hooks until they're broken in.

I agree about the gel sleeves although the only ones I've seen are for adults, you may have to figure out a way to cut one vertically and wrap it around her ankle.

I'm in the dark here what a 4 year old is doing on skates that requires super tight boots. Is she jumping already? Most of the 4 year olds around here are still in basic skills. I've never seen one jumping. They just don't seem to have the coordination for it.

Was this a Former Soviet Union coach? Just curious.

[icedancer]

I was going to ask if she could bend her ankles.  If she can't then maybe the top should be looser.

Otherwise they look fine - could she skate in them?

[twokidsskatemom]

I agree with being able to bend. Its very very hard to do someone else skates which  is why my kids learned early how to do their own.

Both my kids jumped early:}

[jlspink22]

She's in Basic 3 right now, she's not jumping properly (she can do hops and skips and little "jumps") but she's moving up quickly.

I was aggravated that she couldn't wait 10 minutes until lesson was over because while yes they weren't super tight but at the same time we've been working on pulling them tighter every time. It's hard enough for mom to explain to a four year old why they might hurt never mind someone who's she has barely interacted with. Most of the club coaches are Russian but not her.

After class we did public skate, I only did them to the third hook and had to slightly loosen the one back up near the top. Apparently that was still too loose (to director) but it was better than before. Above is at home after heat molding. She could walk in them but they seemed a little rigid still. We have a morning lesson Wednesday so I was trying to get a handle on it now.

[Loops]

Isn't there some sort of  "rule of thumb" about being able to insert a finger behind the tongue?

I'll admit that I tie my kids' skates pretty tight, but not so tight they hurt. To the degree possible, I ask them to bend their knees over their toes- sometimes they won't do it, but that's a good test. They're also pretty soft skates (couldn't tell you which model, but NOT recreational lines).  I suspect softer than the one's your daughter has.  Can you also ask the coach how s/he tells the skate is tight enough?

Also, fwiw, my kids (3 and 5, so your daughter's age) tend to accept instruction (including how skates might feel) from others much more often then they do from me.  Your daughter may not be like this, but if this coach has had other pre-schoolers they may have some experience they're going on.

[jlspink22]

^if it came from a coach that she knew from lessons, I would agree with you there. I asked for her private coach to talk to her.  She would hardly ever wear socks or tights until she had to wear with them skates, she's one of those has to fit just right or the world is over types. I was like that at her age and I grew out of it.

[jlspink22]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00JFTW43I/ref=redir_mdp_mobile?ref_=pe_385040_30332200_TE_item

I bought this. Looks like I can cut to fit.

[Loops]

Wait, so this was just some random coach pulling her aside to retighten skates?  Hmmm....on the one hand I do like the vigilance and concern (loose skates can cause injuries), but on the other hand you're working on it.  She had no way of knowing that, but presumably you were right there, and not an unfamiliar face.......

You absolutely can cut that thing you bought.  I have the pre-cut version.  Those things are the best thing ever invented for skaters.  As a heads up, it might be too wide, and mine have stretched out over the season (they do reshrink to almost original size with each wash).  I'm sure you can make it work though!

Are the tops of her skates cutting into her ankles?  That shouldn't be (hence the invention of the gel sleeves), or is the concern further down on the skate?  Edea has a diagram showing that you can do loose over the toes, tight up over the instep to the end of the eyelets, then looser again up over the hooks (obviously not too loose, she needs the support there).  But the instep, which locks the heel in place is pretty important. 

Found it: http://www.edeaskates.com/en/ice-skates/technical-support/lacing.html towards the middle of the page (but the whole thing is useful).

If it works with the top hook open, then why not just leave it like that and if there's a future concern then clarify that she's breaking them in. 

[jlspink22]

I actually showed that same video to my husband last time when he took her. She says it hurts near the second/third hook from bottom where the tongue tucks in behind the sides.

This director drives me a bit crazy. One week she tells me to shorten her practice before class so she's not so tired in lesson, and the next she's asking me why she's taking a break.

I think she meant well.... trying not to grit my teeth thinking about it and take it as lessons in life!

[jlspink22]

I have a longer video, but this is three laces hooked after about an hour on PS. You can see how they flop a tad. This is where we are currently at and trying to get tighter.

https://fbcdn-video-a.akamaihd.net/hvideo-ak-xpa1/v/t43.1792-2/10414725_10100238484217853_1045832784_n.mp4?oh=b7e470c3a5b776418ced933e4a51d003&oe=53A897DF&__gda__=1403558324_e5a9e258cfbd3462be7bc3b8bbb37593

[Loops]

Wow!!!  Look at her go!  What a nice spin, too.  I wish my daughter would take to skating like that.

Often people do need to stop during a session (which is less than an hour) and tighten their skates.  Is that something you could try?  As things warm up in there, they get looser, so its normal albeit colossally annoying.

Also, when skates are new, it's hard to get them tight around the ankles, simply because the leather is stiff.  This might sort itself out as she gets used to it, and the skates break in.  How often is she skating each week?

But it doesn't look like its holding her back, and tbh, I'm not sure I'd worry about it too much.  I don't think my daughter's skates this season were all that much tighter.  They were older and the leather softer though, so they may have LOOKED tighter.

[jlspink22]

She skates about 4 hrs a week between one group, one private and public skate. This is her second pair. She wore out the first ones (softer) too quickly, in 2 months? She's only been on these about a month now without heat. Wonder what next lesson will bring!

[jlspink22]

I think we found a solution. Callous pads (look like donuts) on the inner ankle bones and solipos gel ankle sleeves. The sleeves weren't quite enough but with the "circle pads" no tears.

[AgnesNitt]

I think we found a solution. Callous pads (look like donuts) on the inner ankle bones and solipos gel ankle sleeves. The sleeves weren't quite enough but with the "circle pads" no tears.

I've used something like those from skating safe. Probably too big for her, but will last a long time if she still needs them when she gets bigger.
http://icedoesntcare.blogspot.com/2012/04/magic-circle.html

[Loops]

I'm glad you found a solution!!!!

[jlspink22]

I'm glad you found a solution!!!!

I told my husband next skates, I'm going to spend a little more time and money finding a really good fit for her. Will cost me more $ but hopefully less aggravation.

[dlbritton]

(I wasn't sure if I should start a new topic or sidetrack this one somewhat.)

I too am having problems with my own boots - Riedell 255 TS.

I am still breaking in my boots and find if I lace to the top hook, the lace and knot will "pop" off of the hook when I get a really deep knee bend especially on backwards crossovers. If I only lace to the third hook this doesn't seem to happen but I don't feel like I have good support on my outside edges.

I try not to get them too tight but obviously want them snug. Any suggestions about how to lace to prevent this problem. It is rather disconcerting to be skating along and all of a sudden your boot is just wobbling under your foot.

[fsk8r]

(I wasn't sure if I should start a new topic or sidetrack this one somewhat.)

I too am having problems with my own boots - Riedell 255 TS.

I am still breaking in my boots and find if I lace to the top hook, the lace and knot will "pop" off of the hook when I get a really deep knee bend especially on backwards crossovers. If I only lace to the third hook this doesn't seem to happen but I don't feel like I have good support on my outside edges.

I try not to get them too tight but obviously want them snug. Any suggestions about how to lace to prevent this problem. It is rather disconcerting to be skating along and all of a sudden your boot is just wobbling under your foot.

I had this problem lacing my boots. My general technique around the hooks is to go down to up with the lace. For the top hook I go up to down and that solves the problem. Having watched my coach tie her boots the other day (lace came undone) she goes up to down on all the hooks and I'm sure someone will tell me that I'm meant to do that, but I never have.

[Loops]

I told my husband next skates, I'm going to spend a little more time and money finding a really good fit for her. Will cost me more $ but hopefully less aggravation.

You may not need to spend more money, but time will help.  I don't recall what she's in, but another brand might fit better.  I forget if you told us where you went or not, but going to a good fitter makes all the difference.  When she's ready for the skates that are heat moldable (I'm not sure at which stiffness that technology starts getting implemented, and it probably differs with each brand), that will also make a big difference.  I was impressed how that worked with my new skates- it was a whole new world for me!  Plus, the break-in period is always a drag, and she's young enough that she may not truly understand what that means.

I am still breaking in my boots and find if I lace to the top hook, the lace and knot will "pop" off of the hook when I get a really deep knee bend especially on backwards crossovers. If I only lace to the third hook this doesn't seem to happen but I don't feel like I have good support on my outside edges.

Having watched my coach tie her boots the other day (lace came undone) she goes up to down on all the hooks and I'm sure someone will tell me that I'm meant to do that, but I never have.

I always lace the hooks up to down.  My skate tech taught me to do this back in the 80's.  It has several advantages- 1- I can maintain tension better as I lace the hooks, 2- I find I can eek out more support (I tie my skates TIGHT up around the ankles, even more so with the dance model boots I have) and 3- because of the extra loop the laces make around the hook, I find they pop off much less frequently.  In fact the only time they popped off this season was when the laces were too long and I needed to go back down the hooks.  My current boots have the small hooks and the second pass of laces just didn't fit so well underneath.  This season, before I cut my laces, I was topping off with some electrical tape just to make sure things stayed closed.  Still do during competitions.  Electrical tape, they tell me is very similar, if not the same thing as sk8tape.  But it's at least more readily available, and probably cheaper.  I use some vinegar to wipe off the little bit of goopy residue that stays on.

[jlspink22]

These are Jackson's, before she had riedells but both skates are about the same in width except for stiffness. She has a narrow bony ankle but a thicker forefoot and lower arch.  I have the same problem with all of my shoes from dancing as a youngster. I'm in the southern NJ/Philadelphia area if anyone knows a fitter here. And yes the break in process is not fun for either if us. However she can almost do a full shoot the duck! Just have to get down the whole backwards skating/stroking.

[taka]

Having watched my coach tie her boots the other day (lace came undone) she goes up to down on all the hooks and I'm sure someone will tell me that I'm meant to do that, but I never have.

I do up to down on all the hooks and have only had them pop off a hook once. Even then they still stayed tight enough to complete the remaining 3/4 of a lap of the dance I was doing! I find lacing up to down locks them into place much better so the bits I want loose stay loose and the bits I want tight stay tight!

[dlbritton]

Thanks to everyone for lacing tips. I will try the up to down method tomorrow. Today I had to retie my skates 3 times, right popped off once/left twice.

[aussieskater]

Another one who laces over not under the hooks.  I also lace the hooks 3-4-2-1 (1 is the lowest hook) as it means that to some extent at least the laces are held in place by the next lower lace pass, and I can tie the ankle very firmly without the additional yank I give that set of hooks working its way back through the instep.