Message from Klingbeil (1/2014)

[FigureSpins]

Received this email from Klingbeil:

Our Friend,

It has come to our attention that rumors have been circulating that Klingbeil is either no longer producing custom skates or planning to stop producing custom skates in our New York City factory.  This is to let you know that Klingbeil is here to stay.  Our state of the art skate and shoe factory in the heart of Times Square is here and ready to serve you.  Please ignore any malicious or untrue rumors and contact us if there is anything we can do for you.  We value your loyalty and we are here to serve you and do all we can to produce the best skates in the world. 

If you receive any information that viciously undermines our company we would greatly appreciate if you forward the correspondence to info@klingbeilusa.com.  We promise to keep your name confidential.  We value your continued support and patronage.

For any comments, concerns or questions please email us at info@klingbeilusa.com or call at (212)776-1400 x 125 (press 7 then enter extension)

Sincerely,
Klingbeil Management

FWIW, the only rumor I've heard lately was someone surmising that "when the skater's measurements are "close enough," Klingbeil uses a stock last instead of creating a custom last for the skate."  Disclaimer: no idea if that's true or not.

[ONskater74]

Well, my experience has been they are not willing to make a custom boot if your size is different than their stock sizes. I honestly tried.

[blue111moon]

And my personal experience has been that Klingbeil is more than willing to make custom skates for any size/shape of foot.  It does require a trip to NYC for a personal fitting but they'll do it.  The last time I stopped in to have an ajustment made, they were measuring a man with one foot that was almost two and a half sizes bigger than the other one!  Don Klingbeil himself is mostly retired but he trained Wil M. and he's terrific!

[Query]

Custom lasts are expensive. I've heard it costs tens of thousands of dollars (maybe more) to make new custom lasts (the foot-shaped form over which the leather is bent/sewed to make the boot) on their last-making lathe. If so, of course they don't make new custom lasts for every customer.

On the other hand, they can take a stock last, add tape or putty to it, and get something which is effectively the same as a custom last. Then take off the tape or putty, and re-use the last for the next customer.

There are some brands of custom shoe where new lasts are made for every customer. I think the process involves forming a cast around the foot, perhaps using plaster of Paris, cutting the cast open to remove it from the foot, taping it together, pouring something like rubber inside the cast to make the last, giving the rubber time to set, and then removing the cast again. Another process uses a very expensive laser profiler to take measurements, then using an automated machine to grind a new last to shape.

But, according to one of the master boot makers, neither process produces a last which is hard enough to shape thick stiff leather skate boots without being distorted by that shaping. So what the major brand skate boot makers generally do instead is take a few measurements (a very few measurements if you go to a fitter other than the boot maker himself/herself), modify a stock last with tape or putty as mentioned to match those measurements, form and sew the boot around it. The result isn't perfect, so it is assumed that the fitter will heat mold and/or stretch the boot to work a little better.

It is possible more conventional molding techniques could be used to form custom composite (e.g., resin-reinforced fiberglass, Kevlar, or carbon fiber) boots, because you don't need a lot of pressure to form them. But among the top end figure skate boot makers, only Edea makes composite figure skating boots, and they don't make custom boots, though some of their dealers do heat mold.

Perhaps now you could use one of the new 3D printers, which are rapidly coming down in price. That actually makes a lot of sense. I wonder if there are cheap enough laser profilers for a boot maker to make a commercial go of it, rather than just taking a few measurements...

Regardless, Klingbeil has been very proud of using old-style leather craftsmanship, and has made a big investment in it. Perhaps they won't be leading innovators in using new materials and processes to make boots.

[Willowway]

Klingbeil's specialty is custom boots so anyone saying that they won't make custom is not correct. If you want them to customize a stock boot that's one issue; if you want a custom boot from scratch they have a very detailed process for that. I've had customs from K and they made a last. I was one of the last pair in the old place in Queens but it wasn't that long ago. They may have a maximum size but I would suspect that's rather large as I know a man with size 11 Kling customs - those are large!

[blue111moon]

Klingbeil uses a foam form to create their custom foot beds.  You step in the foam which compresses around the sides of the foot.  Then they pour plaster into the mold to make a cast of your foot.  Then the craftsman fits the leather to the cast.  After my last pair of boots, they sent me the plaster casts along with my boots. Even just looking at those casts it's really easy to see that my feet have radically different sole and arch configurations from each other. 

[fsk8r]

Klingbeil uses a foam form to create their custom foot beds.  You step in the foam which compresses around the sides of the foot.  Then they pour plaster into the mold to make a cast of your foot.  Then the craftsman fits the leather to the cast.  After my last pair of boots, they sent me the plaster casts along with my boots. Even just looking at those casts it's really easy to see that my feet have radically different sole and arch configurations from each other.

Did you go to the store to do this?
I can't see how they can manage this for their distance customers who get measured by their fitters and send a handful of measurements in.

(This is curiosity rather than anything else)

[Sk8tmum]

Distance fitters use the same foam bed and send it in.  Plus the measurements. 

[Query]

Yes, I forgot about the foam imprint. Some skate boot makers do that, some don't. It's not a full 3D mold, like you see in some other types of custom shoe, but it should be a lot better than nothing.

My imprints, and the rest of my boot fit, were done wrong, by a fitter who was not part of Klingbeil. Sigh. Plus the fitter failed to mention that I could have traveled to the Klingbeil factory a mere 6 or 7 hours drive away, and gotten them to make new boots at no extra charge.