skate saga - hoping we made the right choice

[DressmakingMomma]

Our family is relatively new to figure skating and I am having major anxiety over buying skates for our DD, who is 10.

She's been skating just over a year, loves it, and has switched to a weekly private lesson instead of group. She is in Freestyle 1 and practices 3-4x at public skate sessions - so between 5-7 hours on the ice each week.

She's had skate trouble from the start. Her first pair made her toes numb (used Riedells in wide). Then we bought a pair of used Harlick competitors that were better but not perfect. Her feet grew, so this time we wanted to buy new skates and the fitter put her in Edea Overtures. After 45 minutes she would be in tears and was only skating her lesson each week because it was too painful to practice. We made weekly trips to the skate shop for heat moding, but her frustration was growing after a month of the Edea's not working. SO, we went to a different, highly recommended fitter who is about an hour's drive from us. He measured her feet as E at the ball and an AA heel. After the initial sticker shock, DH and I decided she loves the sport and ordered special makeup skates from Jackson through the second skate shop.

Here's what I'm worried about. Premier was the lowest level skate model we could order to get a split width E/AA with ample padding and added tongue hooks (features she likes on the Harlicks). She has to have something that fits right, but I'm really worried about the break-in process and stiffness. It doesn't seem like there are any good options for girls with extra wide feet who are beginner skaters. We can't afford to make another skate mistake because we have a limited budget - otherwise I would just get custom skates made. On the plus side, she LOVES to jump and will spend an hour just doing waltz jumps or 1/2 flips around a circle. She also loves skating figure eights in backward crossovers - I'm hoping this will help with the break-in process. Fingers crossed. Please reassure me that these boots will be okay 

[Willowway]

I hope this pair works for her. From an adult who needs wide boots and has had her own skate saga re: the right pair of boots a few observations:

- when your foot is tightly compressed in a boot that is way too narrow, the pain is indeed impossible to handle - it's severe.
- buying used boots is very iffy - used skates (whether they are moldable or not) have naturally molded to someone else's foot - it's often a complete waste of money unless they're very new 'used' boots. I am no longer even tempted to look at used equipment.
- every foot is not identical in terms of exact placement of nerves, etc.  I now know (after much expensive boot experimentation) where I can squeeze my foot with relatively little pain and where it isn't do-able.  Your DD needs to get to know her feet in a different way than we need to know for shoes or sneakers - boots are intentionally unforgiving (need to be for support) so the considerations change. For instance, I do not need or wear a wide shoe; I must wear a wide boot as they fit in totally different way - they not only compress the foot side-to-side but if laced firmly compress the foot from top to bottom. Simultaneous compression can really hurt (depending on placement of nerves) and the pain is intense - also one may need (as I do) a little for the foot to 'spread' as you glide and place all of your weight on one foot (shops never allow for this).

You'll find her solution (or already have). If the boots are the right boots in terms of fit for her particular foot, the break-in period will be no more problematic than usual. I had every problem in the book until I found the right boot and then the break-in was a piece of cake; breaking in the right boot will never be as bad as trying to skate in the wrong boot.

For the record I have been through several Riedells, custom Klingbeils, all of which felt just fine in the shop but were awful when I had to actually skate in them.  I am now so happy with my Jacksons which are traditionally better for skaters with wide feet.

Sounds like she has both talent and enthusiasm - that's fantastic. And you're a terrific mom for hanging in there with an expensive sport.

[Query]

Your poor daughter!  I hate scrinched toes.

If the new skate fitter does better, I suggest you also go to him for the adjustments as well, and drop the old shop altogether. In addition, shops with poor fitting skills frequently also sharpen badly (because it's likely the same individual who hasn't taken the time to learn to do things right), or take off too much metal while sharpening, which means you have to buy blades more often - though if she grows faster than her blades wear out, the latter problem may not be an issue.

It's not just a matter of initial fit and heat molding. He can also stretch the leather right next to the toes. If the old fitter didn't do that, after each heat mold, then that fitter wasn't competent, or didn't have the proper equipment. The new fitter can stretch the old boots a little too.

I suggest that until the new boots arrive, you remove the insoles from the old boots to make extra room. (You may have to pull fairly hard, as some insoles are held in with mild glue.) If there is anything rough or sticking out on the bottom of the skates that might hurt her feet, you may have to trace the shape of the insoles on something very thin - e.g., thin cardboard - and cut it out to create very thin new insoles, to let her feet sit on a smooth surface. If the heels are too wide with the insole removed, and are moving around (potentially creating blisters) put an appropriate thickness of tape underneath the heel of the new insoles.

[Loops]

Sounds like she has both talent and enthusiasm - that's fantastic. And you're a terrific mom for hanging in there with an expensive sport.

I second this.  You, Mom, get a gold medal.

I have nothing new to add- boot fit is the most important thing.  You gotta do what you gotta do, and so does she in terms of breaking them in.  As a forewarning- boot break in always is a drag, not as bad as what she went through with the Edea's though- that sounds horrid, poor kid.  Kudos to her for not giving up.

My fingers are crossed for you, too.  Sounds like the new shop is much more competent.  That alone is worth something.  Good luck and keep us posted!

[DressmakingMomma]

Willowway, glad to hear that the Jacksons worked well for you. It's so hard when you can't just test out different skates and then buy what works best.

We will only be going to the second skate fitter from here on out for everything including sharpening - even if it does take over an hour to get there. He stretched her Harlicks (glad we didn't get around to selling them in when we bought the Edeas) and she is going to have to make due with those until the Jackson Premiers arrive. They are tight, but at least they don't cause tears like the Edeas.

Wasting $275 of my husband's hard earned dollars and the tears and painful feet definitely didn't feel like gold medal parenting but hopefully we're headed in a better direction!

She shows willingness to work hard and I want her to have opportunity for success without something like bad fitting skates getting in her way. I think the Jacksons are going to fit better then anything else she has tried, and the new fitter seems to really know his stuff. I still worry that we couldn't put her in something more suited to her level of skating. From what I've read here, the premiers are stiff, hard to break in boots meant for more advanced skaters - but there doesn't seem to really be another alternative. Blah - wish it wasn't going to take 6 weeks before we know if we made the right choice.

[WaltzJump413]

My sister's doing ISI Basic Skills in super-stiff (they were given to her) Risports. They're stiff enough to be used for triples.
And then I'm using Riedell 121s which are way less stiff (and will probably last up to 1/2 jumps).

We're both in the same level and both progressing. I don't think she's ever had any trouble because of the stiffness. 

[Loops]

Wasting $275 of my husband's hard earned dollars and the tears and painful feet definitely didn't feel like gold medal parenting but hopefully we're headed in a better direction!

Skate buying is a total drag.  I just went through it myself.   My old skates (30 years, mind you) never fit me well, and I suffered.  Not as much as your daughter or Willoway did, but still.  The only alternative in those days were customs, and my parents would have never sprung for that.  I'm still in the early phases of testing out my new boots.   As you've discovered, since you can't really try before you buy, there's always some grey area/guessing involved.  So please please don't beat yourself up over the money.  If your daughter loves skating, the education you've gotten is worth so much more.  As you progess, skates are only going to get more expensive and you'll WISH you could just spend $275 + whatever you spent on the used skates.  My parents were always worried about  money, and I totally get it, but they would never have done for me what you are doing for your daughter.  They'd have hoped it drove me to quit and save the money (please understand that I say this with lots of love and appreciation in my heart for what they went through, my parents are great).  You didn't do that, so wear your gold medal with PRIDE.  How many lessons/how much ice time is $275?  You say your daughter was only skating during her lesson, so do the math- how many dollars of ice time was lost due to the Edeas?  Hopefully that will give you some perspective.  Plus, sell those old, evil skates at the next skate exchange/on ebay/ wherever and hopefully you'll come out a little better.

I'd like to think that if I were in your situation, I'd do what you did for my kids.  They're just starting skating.

For whatever it's worth, I think you are doing the right thing.  If those skates are right for her, then the break in is going to be a piece of cake compared to what she's been going through.  Read around on the forum for tips, and ask outright.  There's lots of knowledgeable people here who can give you/may have already posted elsewhere some really solid advice on that.  Harlick's website has suggestions, I've heard of coaches telling their students to walk up the stairs in them (over and over again).  Or just going to public sessions and doing some boring old laps.  Share your concerns with your fitter; he sounds very competent and may have advice.  The premiere's are stiff, but not impossible.  Plus, if she's out of pain, she'll progress much faster and will need the support they offer sooner rather than later.  You and she will be right.

[sarahspins]

From what I've read here, the premiers are stiff, hard to break in boots meant for more advanced skaters - but there doesn't seem to really be another alternative. Blah - wish it wasn't going to take 6 weeks before we know if we made the right choice.

They are stiff, but if they fit right, to some degree that will be okay... the top hook can be left undone to facilitate more knee bend, plus as her skills progress, and they typically do very quickly from FS1 and beyond, she'll need more support, so even if she might not need such a stiff boot right now, in 6 months she could be working on her axel and would need it then, you just never know.  That said, I wouldn't consider her extremely overbooted in the premiere, it's more that she would probably be just fine in a boot one or two levels lower (the Competitor or Freestyle) if you could get them in the correct size, but you can't, so you have to work with what you can get.

I wear split width Jacksons, as do several others on the board, and I've never been happier with my skates than I am with my current ones.. my feet don't hurt, they were easy to break in, and honestly I wish they were more popular at my rink - I think a lot of skaters who struggle with other boots would be happier in them.  I wear boots rated for triples and I'm definitely not doing triples - but I am hard on boots and I'd be unhappy trying to skate in a softer boot, and I don't have any of the problems with a stiff boot that some skaters experience - the inability to bend the ankle being the main one, and that has never been a problem for me.

Wide width Riedells were never wide enough or my daughter's feet but she wears stock C width Jacksons and has done fairly well in those.  The only time she complained in her last pair was when she had outgrown them and they were a full size too small.  I worry that the heels may be too wide in her current boots (mainly because her feet are tiny versions of mine), but she's only in Basic 6, so I won't know for sure about that until she starts learning jumps, which if she continues at the same rate, will be a few more months at least.

[DressmakingMomma]

Thank you for the replies, I'm feeling more at ease about the boot stiffness and I believe the boot itself is going to fit. I'm so ready to get this worked out so she can get on the ice and skate to her heart's content.

[DressmakingMomma]

The jackson premiers arrived at the skate shop sooner then expected, we made the trip to pick them up yesterday afternoon, and they fit perfectly!!! 

While there, DH and I decided to upgrade her from the ultima mirage to a coronation ace, as she didn't like how low the toepick seemed or how hard it was to find the sweet spot on the mirage. Our fitter mounted the coro. ace temporarily and put her on the ice to see how she looked. It took a few times stroking back and forth to get used to the new combination and then she managed the nicest scratch spin she has done yet. He finished off a permanent mount and we headed home with her smiling all the way. I took her to the public skate last night, and she has everything but her lunge. Her coach showed her twizzles at her last lesson and she was able to successfully do them all across the ice - she LOVES the new new blade. I can't wait to see how she progresses now that she has skates that fit right.

We are soooo happy to have found a quality fitter who knows what he is doing. He just picked up a lifetime customer! 

[Loops]

Oh yay!  I've been wondering how this turned out.  So glad, on all counts!  Early arrival, and what sounds like a great fit.   I hope the break in goes smoooooothly.

I'm happy that she's enjoying the ice again, and that you've a huge load off your back.   

[Willowway]

Along with loops I'm happy for you and DD - there's nothing better than a boot that fits right except maybe the right blade attached to it and it seems that you've found both! Enjoy!

[Sk8tmum]

Here's what I'm worried about. Premier was the lowest level skate model we could order to get a split width E/AA with ample padding and added tongue hooks (features she likes on the Harlicks).

Sorry, just saw this.  Re the tongue hooks: you can get that added on any boot; our sharpener or our skate store just puts them on the tongue as an after-market adjustment.  And re: the split width: you can order Riedells in that same width split ... it costs a few dollars more, but, I remember it being available at a fairly low level.  If the Premier works - and it sounds like it does - then YAY!!!! If not, then there are other options out there.

[WaltzJump413]

The jackson premiers arrived at the skate shop sooner then expected, we made the trip to pick them up yesterday afternoon, and they fit perfectly!!! 

That's great!!!

[KateSkates]

Yay! I really like my Jackson's, too. I have the similar wide ball narrow heel problem.

[DressmakingMomma]

A few more weeks have gone by and the skates are still working out well. The break in process hasn't gone too badly - the first week was a bit rough as dd could only get in about 20 minutes at a time before her feet started hurting but she hasn't had any blisters.

I have found a couple of things that have helped and thought I would share. If an area is bothering her, I'm using my craft heat gun bought at Hobby Lobby some years ago for stamping. It doesn't get as hot as a traditional heat gun, so I feel like I'm less likely to ruin the boots. She needed the arch area widened, so I used it to warm up the arch, pushed and massaged down from the inside lace area to the arch to open it up a bit, then we laced them on and I kind of squeezed and messaged the skates around her feet till they cooled down. That seemed to do the trick. I also have found that socks filled with rice, heated in the micro, and stuffed in the boots on the way to the rink makes them much more comfortable.

She likes these skated tied much looser then the Harlicks. I had to really rail down on those laces to get them tight enough and I was retying quite a bit to keep them uber tight. With her new skates, she wants them just tight enough to hold her ankle in place but loose over the toes and up the hooks. We are leaving the top hooks unlaced and using ponytail holders for now. My fingers are happier with a looser tie for sure!

Yesterday she was able to skate for a full two hours at a public session, so I think that's good progress. The real test will be if she makes it through the winter break skating camp she is signed up for at the end of the week 

[Doubletoe]

So glad these boots are working out!  I agree that you get the GOOD Skating Mom Award!