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Author Topic: Off-Ice Jumping Practice Question  (Read 4870 times)

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Offline Neverdull44

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Off-Ice Jumping Practice Question
« on: October 13, 2013, 11:21:56 AM »
What surface and what shoes do you wear for off-ice jumping practice?

I am about to start on my axel, done as a kid and young woman decades ago.   Coach says I'm pretty close to getting my axel, but I two foot it and cheat it a little.   I am considering trying off-ice training, especially when I am at home.  But, my house isn't safe, as I could fall on things.  I am thinking of doing it outside, in my backyard.   It doesn't snow here, so I will have good weather.  I will be on grass, so I am thinking my tennis shoes would be good.

Another option is to do it at the rink, but I am hesitant to do it there.  The reason is that one girl recently broke her ankle doing it there.  She was on the rink rubber mats and wearing her tennis shoes.  She landed, her upper body kept rotating, her foot stopped, and the ankle (no boot) kept turning.

Ice behaves differently then the ground.  In a jump landing, you momentum, hopefully, is to do an outside edge landing to take away the landing force.  And, those big skates provide alot of ankle support.

Dancers do turns and twisting jumps, but in slippery ballet/jazz shoes and on varnished floors.  In Zoomba class, I wore real dance sneakers.  The ball of the foot is in a circle pattern, allowing me to turn my legs without my knee lagging.  I bought them after my knee started hurting a few weeks into Zoomba.  Gymnasts do turns and twisting jumps, barefoot but on that cushy carpet floor.  All of these allow the legs and foot to stay more aligned.

 

Offline TreSk8sAZ

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Re: Off-Ice Jumping Practice Question
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2013, 01:37:52 PM »
I would think grass and tennis shoes would be fine, but just make sure it's not wet as it could allow you to slip a bit. I do off ice jumps in tennis shoes at any rink I'm at. The thing with the land is that you want to be sure you're not just stopping when you land. Either hop the landing a little, or use a really soft knee and ankle to absorb the shock. I've done off ice jumps on concrete with no problem when I'm warming up outside of a rink for competition.

Offline FigureSpins

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Re: Off-Ice Jumping Practice Question
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2013, 05:43:58 PM »
I wear athletic shoes on rubber flooring at the rink or fitness center.  Hop out the landings to absorb the impact and prevent momentum falls.  IVe heard that carpet is preferred for doubles and triples because of the extra cushioning.

The big box stores sell packs of rubber floor tiles about 24" square.  You could use that if you don't have a suitable floor indoors.
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Offline nicklaszlo

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Re: Off-Ice Jumping Practice Question
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2013, 09:32:24 PM »
The reason is that one girl recently broke her ankle doing it there.  She was on the rink rubber mats and wearing her tennis shoes.

This is the accepted way of practicing off ice jumps at my rink.  I  think you have to accept that off ice jumps are dangerous on any floor.

When using grass, I always check to make sure it is flat.

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Re: Off-Ice Jumping Practice Question
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2013, 08:10:19 AM »
If you have access to a swimming pool, you can practice them there.  I used to do that, but considering I cannot swim, anytime I went down, I went into a panic.  It was a 4 foot pool; I'm 5'6... I shouldn't have panicked.  The gym asked me to stop.
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Offline Doubletoe

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Re: Off-Ice Jumping Practice Question
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2013, 07:27:58 PM »
Jumping off ice really helped me get my axel.  I jumped on the rubber mats at the rink or on shallow carpet and still do sometimes.   You just need to make sure you hop out of it on the landing, and avoid any sticky rubber mats or other surfaces that don't let you do that easily.

I always wear basketball shoes for jumping off ice and have never hurt myself in the 10 years I've been doing it.  Basketball shoes are perfect because they are specifically made for jumping, rotating, then landing on what could be either a slippery or sticky surface.  They also provide great ankle and heel support.  My favorites are Nike Air Jordan boys' ("Youth") basketball shoes.  They are sturdy and supportive, and the Youth sizes will fit most women's feet.

Offline discombobulate

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Re: Off-Ice Jumping Practice Question
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2013, 08:59:49 PM »
I have a question.
Does anyone know if it is physically possible to do a triple jump off ice from standing?
Do elite skaters do them? If so, how?
I know double axels from side hops is possible..but what about getting the 3 rotations?

Offline Doubletoe

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Re: Off-Ice Jumping Practice Question
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2013, 06:10:43 PM »
I have a question.
Does anyone know if it is physically possible to do a triple jump off ice from standing?
Do elite skaters do them? If so, how?
I know double axels from side hops is possible..but what about getting the 3 rotations?

I think it probably depends on the jump.  If it's a triple loop, then it can definitely be done from a standstill on the floor (I've done double loops from a standstill on the floor).  I imagine a 3A could be done on the floor without any hopping into it, too.  I do single axels on the floor just stepping out from the right foot to the left foot and jumping, and I see lots of skaters do double axels on the floor that way, too.  The important thing is to start facing backward on the right foot, then open out to the left to step forward onto the left foot.  That puts you in the right position for the axel takeoff and also creates just enough momentum.  Pick jumps are a lot harder, for obvious reasons.

Offline KateSkates

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Re: Off-Ice Jumping Practice Question
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2013, 09:17:48 PM »
If you have access to a swimming pool, you can practice them there.  I used to do that, but considering I cannot swim, anytime I went down, I went into a panic.  It was a 4 foot pool; I'm 5'6... I shouldn't have panicked.  The gym asked me to stop.

I really love practicing jumps in the pool because I am one of those people who likes to really think about what they're doing. On the ice, the thinking slows me down too much with new jumps but in the pool the water slows rotation so I can get a better feel for what I need to do in slow motion, then speed it up back at the rink. But I was a swimmer in college so I don't worry I'll drown. I just worry I'll crash on ice!  ;)

Offline Query

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Re: Off-Ice Jumping Practice Question
« Reply #9 on: December 24, 2013, 01:51:04 PM »
No one is mentioning roller skates, not even those Pic brand skates that are designed to practice figure skating moves.  Is that a bad idea?

Then again, it may be at least as easy to hurt yourself on roller skates as on ice skates, even if you practice on a smooth roller rink.

I sure can't do triple jumps, or even real single jumps. But the hop at the end of the jump instead of landing and sticking that people mentioned helps absorb some of the momentum.

You could always try on your polished kitchen floor while wearing socks - but my kitchen isn't nearly big enough (I've tried). Maybe an indoor basketball or racquetball court? It might look weird to wear socks with no shoes there, but there is lots of space not to run into things. Likewise, almost any dance studio - but beware specialized high-friction Ballet floors.

Don't forget full protective skin coverage (gloves, thick sweat-suit) so you don't scrape yourself if (I mean when) you fall. Some people might want knee pads, elbow pads, or more).

Good luck.

Offline nicklaszlo

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Re: Off-Ice Jumping Practice Question
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2013, 02:06:53 PM »
Query:

I have not tried it, but I understand jumping is more difficult in inlines.  Certainly the falls are worse.

Please, nobody practice jumps in sock feet.  Unnecessary risk.  As far as I know that is for spin practice.

Pairs coach actually encourages jump practice on the high friction rubber floor at the rink because it makes the rotation harder.

I find falling on the floor quite forgiving.

Offline Query

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Re: Off-Ice Jumping Practice Question
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2013, 06:42:44 PM »
Socks aren't that big a risk if you know how to fall, much like the ice. Unless you don't leave yourself enough space, and you run into something, which is what happens in my kitchen.

One of the local skating schools uses trampolines. Fun. They also had us jumping onto and off the bleachers off-ice. I think the risks are bigger there.

Offline nicklaszlo

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Re: Off-Ice Jumping Practice Question
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2013, 07:33:15 PM »
Socks aren't that big a risk if you know how to fall, much like the ice.

Knowing how to fall does not prevent ankle injury.  Boots prevent ankle injury.

Offline TreSk8sAZ

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Re: Off-Ice Jumping Practice Question
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2013, 09:06:16 PM »
Socks alone, especially on tile, do not provide the proper support to absorb the impact of jumping. It has nothing to do with knowing how to fall. It has to do with the fact it makes it easier to roll your foot or ankle, slip off of your socks, or not properly roll down your foot from the toe/jump out the landing. I have friends who have jumped on something softer than tile without shoes and have broken their foot because it rolled wrong (where if they had shoes on, it would have provided the proper support to prevent the injury).

Offline Query

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Re: Off-Ice Jumping Practice Question
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2013, 05:57:13 PM »
I guess it depends on what you have practiced the most.

To me, soft sticky surfaces seem far more dangerous than smooth hard ones, because my foot (and other area of contact) sticks. If I slide, the force is more spread out than if I stick.

If I use a deliberate fall to spread out the forces further, it becomes that much more gentle. But that is because I have practiced it to the point where my reflexes are fast enough to be reasonably certain of doing that.


Offline Doubletoe

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Re: Off-Ice Jumping Practice Question
« Reply #15 on: January 01, 2014, 02:27:15 PM »

Pairs coach actually encourages jump practice on the high friction rubber floor at the rink because it makes the rotation harder.

I find falling on the floor quite forgiving.

I also find falling on the floor to be quite forgiving, but rubber mats that are designed to prevent slipping scare me.  The mats at my rink aren't sticky so they're great for off-ice jumping, but one of the other rinks in the area has rubber mats that really stick to my shoes when I land my jumps and make it hard to hop out of them, especially if they aren't fully rotated.  I am always afraid that's going to make me twist my ankle!

Offline PhysicsOnIce

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Re: Off-Ice Jumping Practice Question
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2014, 11:42:21 AM »
Personally I would be SUPER CAREFULL ON GRASS!!!!! I've twisted my ankle multiple times doing that at home, despite being mostly flat your lawn does have some variations. My recommendation would be to use dance sneakers if you have them on a matted floor. That's the way we do it at our rink, it is part of the club warm ups.

Also triples are doable off ice, but most people just work on rotations, rather than actual jump movements. The jump mechanics are completely different on ice than they are off ice, so your better off working on rotations to help you with your snap than actually jumping lets say a Flip off ice. Jumps that are okay to do off ice for example are your edge jumps. You'll work on getting a full rotation without using the edge, and it will make it much easier on the ice since you will only need half to 3/4 of that rotation. For your axel, make sure you load your knee correctly, don't let your knee for pass your toes.
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Offline johnallocca

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Re: Off-Ice Jumping Practice Question
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2014, 09:39:43 AM »
Beware of twisting your ankle or knees. On ice, if you don't complete the revolution completely, the toe pick will allow the blade to turn on the ice when landing. On the ground however, your foot remains fixed and your ankle and knee twist on the landing.

I did this and strained my lateral and medial collateral ligaments.

John :)