Competition Coaching Fees

[lines]

What fees does your coach charge for a competition?

[hopskipjump]

The price of a regular lesson for each event.  If our coach has several skaters in the same events the coach may reduce the 2nd event (since they warm up together).

We have not experienced a comp that requires flights/overnights/etc.

[lines]

Do they also charge for lost wages from other lessons, gas, etc?

[hopskipjump]

Our coach hasn't charged for those items.  We are all flexible though...when dd was a really young skater and the coach needed to be at a comp for older skaters during our lesson, we would just have our time slot moved.

[sampaguita]

I don't see why the coach would charge for lost wages for lessons -- you're taking up that lesson time, and if you pay the standard lesson rate, there should be no problem.

As for gas, I guess if the competition isn't too far, that shouldn't be part of the cost too.

[fsk8r]

I don't see why the coach would charge for lost wages for lessons -- you're taking up that lesson time, and if you pay the standard lesson rate, there should be no problem.

As for gas, I guess if the competition isn't too far, that shouldn't be part of the cost too.

While the actual competition might only take as long as a regular lesson, if the coach has had to travel that is taking time away from lessons as is all the waiting around that occurs at competitons.

I think a lot of it depends on the coach and where and when the competition is.
I know a lot of coaches struggle to charge for lost lessons because they know the skaters/parents would struggle to afford the additional cost.

I think a lot of coaches factor in the loss of earnings that occurs when they have to attend competitions / tests in their budgeting for the year.   

[lines]

Thanks for your replies.  My daughter's coach is working this out and I wanted to see what others do.  I would love to hear others' replies as well.

[hopskipjump]

I think a lot of coaches factor in the loss of earnings that occurs when they have to attend competitions / tests in their budgeting for the year.  

That would make sense to just build it into their rates over the course of the year.

[FigureSpins]

I think a lot of coaches factor in the loss of earnings that occurs when they have to attend competitions / tests in their budgeting for the year.  

That would make sense to just build it into their rates over the course of the year.

That doesn't make any sense at all.  Why should the rate for every lesson taught over a year be raised to cover the lost lessons that *may* occur *if* a coach attends a competition for a few skaters?  What if no one signs up to compete?  What if only three skaters sign up, but the coach has to cancel eight lessons with others?  How can coach predict that and "build it into their rates" fairly?

I think you don't understand "opportunity cost."  If a coach cancels lessons to attend a competition for a few skaters, they often lose that lesson income outright.  Some skaters simply can't make a lesson date on another day, so they're not being rescheduled for a makeup.  When we used to go to Lake Placid for a four-day competition, our coach would lose hundreds of dollars in lesson income from the dozen or so students who didn't go to the competition.  She included (some of) that lost income as an expense to the competitors along with her travel costs. 

I charge a flat one-lesson fee for competitions, which includes music and putting the skater on the ice for their first competition of the season, typically the one at our home rink.

This is one of the reasons that "team coaching" has grown.  For each competition, one coach from the team coaches all of the team's skaters so that the time and opportunity costs are kept low.

[hopskipjump]

I don't have an answer for you aside from what we pay.  If our coach did charge for missed lessons (ie the hundreds of dollars you mentioned), then we wouldn't be able to do that competition.  If it was like that then dd would probably compete very rarely.  I'd probably put her in ice shows instead.

[FigureSpins]

That's probably because you only do local competitions.

Travel competitions like the Lake Placid ISI competition and the Hershey Open are fun and many skaters will attend from a coaching team, thereby distributing the coaches' expenses and lost lessons.

[fsk8r]

While it's unfair to everyone for the coach to budget for tests and competitions, most rinks are guaranteed a certain number of test days each year and the time for the home competition. The coach doesn't necessarily have any skaters competing/testing but can't coach because there's no ice availabilty (same when there's hockey camp). They can't work because of what the rink has sold the ice for. If the coach is lucky they have some skaters competing / testing and so they are able to recoup some of their losses, but their lesson fee has to cover those lost days. In the same way anyone who is self employed has to build vacation / public holidays / sick leave into their rates.

[PinkLaces]

It's sometimes a long day for the coaches.  I guess after 6 years of my DD competiting (seeing all that the coaches do) I'm okay with them being compensated for their time.  Plus sometimes the coach has to get a babysitter if it's a test day.  This is how our coach works it.

ISI tests:  if there is a practice session ahead of it, then Coach charges regular lesson rate. Else nothing.
USFS tests: $35/test. If there is practice ice ahead of it, regular lesson rate is added for any coaching on the practice ice.

Local competitions: $35/1st event, $15/each additional event. Regular lesson rate for practice ice coaching.  I live in an area with at least 1 but sometimes as many as 3 competitions a month.  Coach sends out a sheet in the spring with the competitions she will attend (both USFS and ISI) for the next year.  She has her students pick from those. 

Weekend competition away: This one is a couple hours away.  Same fees for each event and practice.  Food and hotel costs are split among all skaters.  Usually Coach has a large group of skaters so the cost split up is usually pretty minimal - usually under $50.

Weeklong competition away (ISI Worlds): Same fees as local competition plus gas(or airfare), food, and hotel.  We split costs with 3-7 people.  The most expensive was San Jose in 2009, because we all had to fly. Coach was kind enough not to get a rental car and caught rides with the families. We split 5 ways and it came to about $380 each (not including event and practice fees).  In Boston, Coach decided not to go as there were only 2 of her students going and would lose too much lesson money. 

[Sk8tmum]

Hotel, food, travel costs split between skaters.  If you are skating more than one day, you pay more than if you are skating only one day. 
Lesson fees:  a "lesson slot" is 15 minutes.  Comp fees are usually around 3 lessons (45 minutes) to cover the warmup, on-ice portion, etc.  Generally the coach actually spends a lot more time with the skater than this.

An important point to find out is what your coach thinks a hotel and meal bill should look like. Some coaches do 4-star hotels, some do budget all the way. As a comparator, my coach expense bill for a comp was $56.25; the same comp, another coach charged her skater $250 for a similar profile as the coach stayed in expensive hotels and ate quite well for all meals.

[jjane45]

Some overhead costs are just built-in (insurance, USFS membership, certification), I don't think if an primarily ISI coach can make student pay all the annual USFS-related costs for the one and only one USFS competition in a year.

I am a little torn whether "lost lesson" should be paid by the competing student. To me it's probably handled like sick days? i.e. it's not realistic to budget teaching 52 weeks a year? Travel & accommodation, definitely. Probably this is why coaches like to have competitive students who attend the same competitions, so the cost per capita is low and no one misses out!

[VAsk8r]

I'm not really clear on my coach's logic with her fees, and oddly enough, I've never thought to ask. The last time I competed, I tested in the same city the day before and was her only student who tested. So between the test and doing two events in the competition, I think I owed her around $100, which I felt was reasonable. She seems to charge around $40-$60 for most of the local competitions I do, and I usually enter two events.

I do know she stays in inexpensive hotels and often shares a room with another coach to keep that cost low; the competitions I attend are generally in cities that aren't super expensive anyway. I would have issues with my coach insisting on a four-star hotel and fine dining on my dime.

[turnip]

I've done four competitions, and my coach was only there for my first one, which was at home rink. She had lots of skaters competing and no travel costs (she lived 2 minutes drive from the rink!), and she wouldn't have been able to coach anyway (I think there was a short morning patch, but she didn't want her skaters to do it the day of the comp anyway). I think I paid her £10 or £15??? (a lesson is £16 for half an hour). She did a warm up for us (skaters in the same group together), and then put us on the ice for the warm up and the competiton. In my case, she also had to do a mad dash for my spare CD and then for her ipod as I had music issues. Then a hug of relief at the end!

The other comp I did last year there was one other skater, who didn't have my coach. I'm sure my coach would've put the other skater on the ice as well if asked, but she was on holiday at the time anyway, so it was a moot point.

The two I've done this year I was the only one from my rink going, and as money is extremely tight, I couldn't have afforded for her to come with me anyway, and I think she knows this, so didn't suggest it.

I got adopted by other coaches at both comps though! At the second one, another coach actually offered to stay for my warm up and put me on the ice (her skater had been in the first warm up group, I was in the second). She was ill though, so I said she didn't need to. I don't think it would've been helpful except as moral support, as she doesn't know me or how I skate, so can't know what is fixable in a 4 minutes warm up and what just isn't! I don't think it's a chore for coaches, they enjoy seeing their skaters do well and beign there to support them.

I think when the kids go to other comps, they split the cost of the coach's accomodation and usually she'll get a lift up with one of them, or they'll share her petrol costs. This is where the coaches who have a million skaters win out, cause a) they can charge everyone a flat fee and make way more than if they'd actually been coaching, and b) the parents feel they've got a good deal cause the actual expenses are relatively low cause they're split between so many