Clockwise Spinning

[Orianna2000]

My instructor started teaching me a two-foot spin yesterday. It's not on the Adult curriculum yet, but I asked her to teach me the Basic skills as well, to fill the gaps in Adult 1-2. I really enjoyed the spin, though it made me pretty dizzy. She says it will pass with time, that I'll adjust to the spinning and not get as dizzy.

Anyway, I discovered that I'm definitely a clockwise spinner. I suspected I would be. Even though I'm right-handed, I do a lot of things left-handed, such as ironing, playing golf and softball, etc. I tried spinning counterclockwise and it just felt wrong. Like I was trying to spin against the gravitational spin of the earth itself. I know that sounds crazy, but that's how it felt.

So, how uncommon is it to spin clockwise? What kind of challenges will I be in for as a backwards spinner? Is there anything I need to know?

Also, is it important to practice spinning both directions? I know they make you learn most moves both ways. Even if you're stronger one way, you still have to learn the opposite way, too. Like two-foot turns, you have to do both clockwise and counterclockwise. But my instructor's guidebook didn't say you have to spin both directions to pass the test, so she wasn't sure if I need to learn to spin counterclockwise or not. It just feels so wrong spinning that way, but if it's important, I can try practicing that way. Maybe it will get easier with time.

[nicklaszlo]

She says it will pass with time, that I'll adjust to the spinning and not get as dizzy.

I have never heard of anyone who does not get dizzy.  Lucinda Ruh, probably the best spinner ever, says she gets dizzy.  I think it is more a matter of getting used to skating while dizzy.

So, how uncommon is it to spin clockwise? What kind of challenges will I be in for as a backwards spinner? Is there anything I need to know?

I am also clockwise dominant.  I would estimate about 5% of skaters go clockwise.  Mostly it makes no difference, but...

- You will need to inform each new coach you have
- If you skate in a team with a counter clockwise skater, you will be mirroring them instead of shadowing them when you spin.
- When you jump, you will probably turn the same way you spin.  When you learn lutz, this will be an issue because you cannot see where you are going in a lutz.  Usually skaters expect lutz to be performed in a particular corner of the rink, but your corner will be different from counterclockwise skaters, so people might stand in your way.

Also, is it important to practice spinning both directions?

I think few skaters practice both directions.  Many coaches seem to discourage it as a waste of time.  But I think it is good to practice both ways to keep your body balanced.  A fair number of elite skaters can go both ways.  This also applies to jumps.

[fsk8r]

I'm another clockwise skater. I'm also left handed. My grandfather (who was also left handed) used to say it's a right handed world, get on with it. Meaning, people don't make allowances for you because you're in the minority. It means that I generally work at trying to appear "normal" (like the majority).
As a clockwise skater this means I try to skate with the flow as much as possible. I have less issues spinning than with jumping, although a lot of little kids who are buzzing around you don't realise that you're stepping into a spin because your setup is reversed to theirs. Equally they don't see you coming when you're setting up to jump. Any jump. Then again, they may just be blind...

One thing though with all footwork you need to be equally balanced so just because you have a preference for a clockwise turn it's very important to make the other one just as good even if it feels harder.

[Sk8Dreams]

I think it has to be more than 5%.  There are enough elite CW skaters for it to be noticeable.  I have 3 out of 10 regular students who are regular CW's.  Most skaters who become proficient at spinning can manage at least basic one foot spins in the other direction to their preferred one.

And one nit to pick - you are not a "backwards" spinner; you are a ClockWise spinner!

[platyhiker]

I tried spinning counterclockwise and it just felt wrong. Like I was trying to spin against the gravitational spin of the earth itself. I know that sounds crazy, but that's how it felt.

Heh.  I remember when I was first taught the two foot spin, that the teacher had every one in the class try each direction several times and then told us that one direction would feel much better than the other, and that indicated what direction we would spin (and jump) in.  I find it quite interesting that people can feel a strong preference so easily.  I suspect it relates to which foot you prefer to balance on - most people prefer to balance on the left foot when kicking a ball (meaning that the right foot does the kicking) and CCW spinners spin on the left foot when doing a basic one foot spin.

For the dizzy feeling, I think it does help some to adjust your eyes so that they are focused for things close to you (I focus on my hands) and the distant things go blurry, but as others have said, you learn to get used to being a bit dizzy after a spin.  In practice, if you're feeling very dizzy, you can do a couple of turns in the opposite direction to get yourself feeling better.

For how common it is, I read somewhere recently that about 10% of skaters prefer to spin CW.  I can't remember where I read it, though.

For most things learn in basic skills, you'll need to learn them in both directions (e.g. crossovers, three turns), so being a CW spinner will not be much of a factor.  When you move into Freestyle skills - jumps and spins - being a CW spinner will come into play.  In a group class, you may need to remind the instructor of your spin direction, so that they demonstrate jumps in the CW direction for you.

[Orianna2000]

So it's uncommon but not totally rare.

Hopefully I'll be sticking with my instructor for a long while, as she works really well for me, but I'll try to remember to let my next coach know, if/when I change. I'm sure they'll figure it out pretty quickly, even if I forget, since the first time they see me spin, it'll be obvious.

As far as jumping goes, I'm planning to go into ice dancing, rather than freestyle skating. So, no major jumps for me. I don't know how many spins there are in ice dancing, but I'll try to practice them the opposite way, at least sometimes.

[Rachelsk8s]

If you feel comfortable spinning clockwise then stick with it; I wouldn't really try mastering much more in both directions other than maybe a two or one foot spin, as most pro's agree its more of a waste of time to learn to spin and jump in both directions.  I know of one coach who can do most basic spins and single jumps excluding the lutz and axel in both directions, but she's said its just been over the course of her career, she didn't mean to learn them in both directions.  I can do a two foot spin and a one foot spin in both directions but this weirdly enough has developed over the course of this year teaching my LTS classes The dizzy feeling is worse for some than others but it truly gets better the more you spin and become more used to the feeling of being dizzy, lol if that makes sense!  I will usually go out and do a couple of spins after warming up with moves to get used to that dizzy feeling, but it has gone away a lot more over the years Your body just becomes more accustomed to being dizzy and it goes away faster.  You sound like your progressing very nicely!!  Keep up the good work

[jjane45]

10% is what I heard too. And there are quite a few CW elite skaters out there that I would not call it "uncommon" either Alissa Czizny, Johnny Weir, Ashley Wagner, Carolina Kostner, and the list goes on.

I found for me the "unnatural" forward crossover is really bad compared to the "natural" side. Which forward crossover do you prefer? (for backward it does not matter as much)

And one nit to pick - you are not a "backwards" spinner; you are a ClockWise spinner!

Right, editing the thread title may get you more responses

[nicklaszlo]

I don't know how many spins there are in ice dancing

Basically none.  For advanced dance, there are twizzles, which usually go both ways, and there are pair spins in free dance, where you would need to have a partner who can spin the same way as you.

[JHarer]

There seems to be a lot of CW skaters on this forum. I am a CW skater also, but I can do a decent 2 foot spin in both directions. I don't think it would hurt for you to practice the 2 foot spin both ways. I've even had LTS coaches tell me its good to practice the non-rotational jumps on both sides (i.e., bunny hops, ballet jump, mazurka, etc...)

[Bunny Hop]

Anecdotal evidence suggests that spinning direction is not actually related to handedness. There seems to be a large enough number of of right handed skaters who spin clockwise, and left handed skaters who spin anti-clockwise, that the connection with the hand someone writes with has always seemed dodgy to me.

[spiralina]

Many of the CW skaters I know took ballet as children (myself included).

[fsk8r]

Anecdotal evidence suggests that spinning direction is not actually related to handedness. There seems to be a large enough number of of right handed skaters who spin clockwise, and left handed skaters who spin anti-clockwise, that the connection with the hand someone writes with has always seemed dodgy to me.

From reading up on the subject (it fascinates me why there's different dominance for different things) it seems to actually be more related to eye dominance. Although most of the research I've found on rotational direction seems to have been done for gymnasts.

[Orianna2000]

I found for me the "unnatural" forward crossover is really bad compared to the "natural" side. Which forward crossover do you prefer? (for backward it does not matter as much)

Right, editing the thread title may get you more responses

I changed the thread title. 

Actually, I haven't learned crossovers yet. She wants my edges to be better first, but I can barely practice edges with my current skates. Putting all my weight on one foot is simply too painful.

Anecdotal evidence suggests that spinning direction is not actually related to handedness. There seems to be a large enough number of of right handed skaters who spin clockwise, and left handed skaters who spin anti-clockwise, that the connection with the hand someone writes with has always seemed dodgy to me.

I wonder if it has to do with your dominant brain hemisphere? I'm right-brained, without a doubt. Don't they say the right brain controls the left side of the body and vice versa? Maybe that's a factor, then. I know it's not entirely related to which hand you write with, because I'm right-handed for most things. I write and draw with my right hand. But when it comes to sports, I do many things left-handed. When I play golf, it's left-handed. When I bat at softball, it's left-handed. I know there are other things, too, that I do backwards, but I can't think of them right now. (Maybe bowling?) In any case, perhaps the direction you spin is related to your left/right brain dominance.

[SynchKat]

I have no idea how the body decides which way to spin.  I and right handed, do everything but spin and jump right handed.  My brother is right handed, doe everything lefty but jumps and spins right handed. 

You will find learning some things awkward but when you get to twizzles you will be the only one able to do them the "wrong" way.  . Most twizzles in dances rotate counter clockwise but when you get one rotating clockwise like in the Austrian Waltz you will excell. 

[PinkLaces]

From reading up on the subject (it fascinates me why there's different dominance for different things) it seems to actually be more related to eye dominance. Although most of the research I've found on rotational direction seems to have been done for gymnasts.

I skate CW and definately think that it is eye dominance for me.  My left eye is very weak compared to my right eye. 

I also help with a LTS program.  I have noticed that the kids that are in dance also tend to spin to the right.

[hopskipjump]

My kid is ccw but her best friend is cw so as a challenge they practice doing it their respective "wrong way".  Dd and I were watching an ice video and the skater did alternating ccw and cw axels and I thought nothing of it (honestly didn't even notice), but dd noticed right away and was in awe.  If you decide to test with ISI, they have skills that involve doing both cw and ccw.  So not a waste of time if they end up going in that test vein!

[Orianna2000]

Okay, so I just took an eye dominance test and apparently I'm left-eyed. Maybe that does have something to do with it, then. It looks like the percentage of left-eyed people is about 15% or so. Looks like it's pretty rare to have opposite hand-eye dominance. Usually if you're left-eyed, you're left-handed, as well, and vice versa.

[SynchKat]

Apparently I am left eye dominant too.  Very interesting...I wonder if there is some sort of correlation.

[Live2Sk8]

I am left-handed and a clockwise spinner.  However, I am also right-eye dominant.  Interesting topic! 

[FigureSpins]

Our new family Opthalmologist and  I had a really interesting discussion about eye dominance in the Fall, for which I made a topic in the Coaches' Lounge.  The coaches' results were interesting, but not conclusive, lol.  Most of them were CCW with right-eye dominant, which disproved the theory. 

Just to be picayune, can we suggest one eye dominance test, so we're all testing the same way?  
I used this one:

Sports Vision Skills You Can Practice at Home
By Liz Segre and Marilyn Haddrill, with contributions and review by Donald S. Teig, OD


The opthalmologist and her assistant both said not to do the test yourself, have someone else cover one eye but I got the same results on my own that I did in their office.

In any event:
I am primarily right-handed (some ambidextrous ability, not much)
Spin CCW
Left-eye dominant

I have twin DDs.  One is right-handed, the other a southpaw.  The right-handed DD skates CW; the left-handed DD skates CCW.  I've been trying to get them to do a "mirror program" for years and they just won't accede to my wishes, lol.  I also have skating students who are RH/CW or LH/CCW, so I think "handedness" is meaningless as a measurement of spin or jump direction.  

[platyhiker]

I've been told that most (but not all) people are dominant in the same side for eye and hand.  I'm right handed, left eye dominant, and spin CCW.  (Supposedly, having the opposite eye dominant is an advantage for baseball players, as the batting stance gives the eye opposite your dominant hand the better view of the approaching ball.)

I suspect that spin direction has more to do with foot dominance than hand or eye dominance.

If you want to figure out which foot is your preferred balancing foot, you can try this test.
  - stand relaxed with your knees slightly bent, weight even on both feet
  - have somebody stand behind you and give you a gentle shove in the middle of your back
The foot that use to step forward and catch yourself on is the foot that you prefer to balance on.

If you snowboard, skateboard, or skimboard, the foot that you prefer to have in front is the foot you prefer to balance on.

My theory is that most CCW spinners prefer to balance on the left foot, and most CW spinners prefer to balance on the right foot.

[Isk8NYC]

When I am asked to balance on one foot, I always choose my right foot.  It's the stronger leg/foot, which is probably why my backspin is pretty strong.  Maybe that strength is from landing jumps, though.  (I can press more weight on the fitness machines with my right leg than my left.  Too bad my knee isn't good on that side.)



OT: I love the term "goofy footed" in snowboarding.  That's when the boarder keeps the left foot forward on the board instead of the "regular footed" right one.  Makes me think we should call skaters that prefer spreadeagles with their left foot forward "goofy eaglers."  lol

Just to make it interesting, when I swim freestyle, I prefer to turn to the right to breathe, which is CW, lol.


Mod note: added poll just for fun.

[jjane45]

Just to be picayune, can we suggest one eye dominance test, so we're all testing the same way?  
I used this one:

Sports Vision Skills Tit Can Practice at Home
By Liz Segre and Marilyn Haddrill, with contributions and review by Donald S. Teig, OD

Interesting test. I'm right handed, strongly right eye dominant, and no surprise, skate CCW. Not much preference on turns, but really hate CW forward crossover. Much prefer to balance on left leg, and goofy all the way

[fsk8r]

Isk8NYC  - could you test your twins eye dominance? Given that they should genetically be very similar but have different hand preference and spin direction, I'd be curious to know whether they follow the eye dominance theory (which is left eye dominance leads to clockwise spinning).
Also as younger skaters they've probably also had coaches who are more accepting that people don't all spin and jump the same direction. (In a similar way that statistics show the numbers of left handers increased through the last century but that was mainly due to not being forced to be right handed as people became more enlightened).

On a completely unrelated note, people also have preference when they fold their arms, sit cross-legged or even just interlacing their fingers together. One way is more comfortable than the other. None of those have anything to do with handedness. There's probably subtle differences between our left and right sides which mean they just fit together better one way.