Blue Rental Skates

[Query]

OT, but I tried blue rental skates that used ski-boot style ratcheting straps. The blades were awful, but the boots provided good support, and the straps were so much faster and easier to use and adjust than laces. I couldn't find the boot manufacturer name, but I think it's a great idea.

Laces are silly.

[davincisop]

Until you go to jump and accidentally kick one of the latches open.

Also, you can't bend in them.

[fsk8r]

When I saw the ice show Cinderella, they created a velcro fastening for Cinder's skate so it could be quickly put on for the purposes of the story, although I did notice that other than the odd push and balance that foot wasn't used until she made a quick stage exit to do the skate up properly.

There's probably no real good reason why the ratchet fastenings couldn't be added to leather boots. When I went to school, school shoes were either lace of buckle. Now the kids all seem to have velcro, but they're still wearing leather shoes. There's no reason why ice skates can't progress as well, although I don't like the idea of things popping open mid jump... but laces already can manage that.

[Skittl1321]

OT, but I tried blue rental skates that used ski-boot style ratcheting straps. The blades were awful, but the boots provided good support, and the straps were so much faster and easier to use and adjust than laces. I couldn't find the boot manufacturer name, but I think it's a great idea.

Laces are silly.

How do you get any ankle bend in that style of skate?  They are probably Reidell- they make like 90% of rental skates.

I like my laces, as they let me adjust to different things I'm doing- lace up less when doing ice dance, lace less tight when my tendonitis strikes.  Ski-boots offer very little choices as far as I'm concerned- and no ankle movement.  To me that's not support, that's restriction!

Maybe your boots aren't stiff enough for you if you don't have ankle support?  Mine have PLENTY of support to the ankle area (enough so that, like I said before, I don't always lace all the way up!)

[Query]

Yes, I am looking at boots because the old ones aren't stiff enough anymore. I'd rather travel to a factory to fit custom boots, but am trying to keep costs down.

When my current boots were stiffer, I too laced looser for ice dance, then laced tighter for my very low level freestyle jumps. These boots are about the same stiffness, and should do the same, though the junky blades they came with made it impossible to test much. Each ratchet adjusts individually (after which you fold the buckle closed), so they are just as adaptive as laces - more so, because they are independent.

They happen to come fairly close to fitting me, though I'd need to adjust the insoles. And blue is weird.

Maybe if I tested or competed, which I won't, the judges might think they don't look like figure skates.

Downhill ski boots are very, very stiff, and come up higher on the leg, so are be harder to adapt. But don't compare a poorly fitting pair of unadapted rental ski boots with something that fits. Some ski boots come with moldable thermoplastic linings that can be completely molded to your feet, as do some speed skates. Figure skates are a few centuries behind the times.

As for kicking the buckles open: I'll try them again, and see if that seems possible.

[Kat]

Well, they could always be made with a flap that goes over the buckles so you can't kick them open...it'd hide ugly buckles too.

[SillyAdultSkater]

Risport has a rental collection.
http://www.risport.it/index.php?IDsezione=29539

As do most skate manufacturers. They'll be on their sites under rental.

For the life of me I can't imagine why anyone would wanna wear them though.

Or are you talking about something like this?
http://www.grafskates.com/uploads/pics/bolero.jpg

(source http://www.grafskates.com/132.html?&L=1 but Graf for some reason put up a half-naked lady there)

[Query]

I don't want a generic boot of indeterminate fit. I'm looking for one presumably inexpensive boot which happened to fit me.

[SillyAdultSkater]

Query, don't be silly, we can't mindread. I understand your desire for low-tech - I wouldn't have a half a century old sewing machine if I didn't - but blue rental skates, that's not a lot to go on. I'm surprised that you found rental skates satisfactory, but then I've never actually used them since my mom quickly did the math and decided that it would be cheaper to buy normal white skates straight away (and we re-sold my very very first pair of skates, Libra Pro-Star, for almost what we bought it for, so she was right.) If you found a bunch of rental skates that fit you, go to that rink, ask to see a pair and write down the size and maker. Then just order from their site?

[JimStanmore]

What a provocative and enticing topic.  So many opinions and experiences.  Here's my two cents, YMMV:

Just a comment about inexpensive boots.  I have been on a quest for new boots since my Jackson Freestyles are not only a year old, they are a whole size, or so, too big.  I think all of the rental skates fall in the category of Riedell 110's or Jackson Glaciers.  That puts them below Jackson Mystiques and Riedell 115s with very little support, especially if you are a big adult.  rentals are known for giving skaters a distinctive look: ankles falling in.  I also don't think you can change the blades on most rentals because rivets are considered maintenance free and screws need tightening ( and blades could be stolen/changed.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSPrd4ROlSI&p=DD21BB1EC7F48EF1&playnext=1&index=3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9Lw7rzjJ6Y&feature=player_embedded

I feel that they just won't hold up to being "pushed" by more than leisurely stroking around.  If you were to feel my Freestyles, you would think they are stiff as a board.  But when I start shoving my 6' 2" 195 pounds around and up and down (most single jumps,) they start showing their age.  Earlier this year they started falling over on a landing unless I landed on a perfect edge/angle combination.  Last Saturday I tried to show off to my new FS group instructor with a very high, sailing Waltz Jump and they twisted on the take off - I really pushed up and off that minuscule toe pick harder than I ever had before.  I was impressed that I fixed myself in the air and landed and held a deep edge.  The instructor, though, had a comment about my right arm in the air...

So, I am stuck buying a boot of comparable or better quality.  I am thinking of getting a pair of vintage glove leather skates on ebay to build my ankles back up.  When I first skated in college, that is what an older (70's) gentleman gave me because he felt sorry for my using rentals.  I wish I could jump now like I could back then.  I also used low cut leather ski boots a shop found in their attic for me (I'm a Minnesotan Gopher.)

The OP commented on the many closure positions with buckles, but they are far fewer than the eyelet combinations.  Laces allow the boots to close around the foot at many places and flex/shift to allow the volume of the foot to stay the same, but the shape to shift.  Buckles are just fixed and do not allow any change after being snapped.

For inexpensive boots, you could try the Jackson Soft-tecs or Riedell versions.  The upper models have good support and velcro.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNDwjE6YpWI&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2FYD5pEAMA&feature=player_embedded

Riedell Soft Skates

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMk6ZHtMCek&feature=player_embedded

Today I put on my $40 Ultima Freestyle blades that I just got on myskatingmall from Ryan Jahnke.  My skates and I had a short one hour session today to try them out.  What a difference $400 blades make - I love them.  Didn't trip over that nice big drag pick, but the three of us are going to have to work something out for clean three turns and spins.  Now, if you can find cheap boots for my "new" blades that will handle 195 lbs revolving at 90 rpm and dropping a foot or so onto the ice at about 15 mph, let me know.  I missed out on brand new Riedell Bronze Stars (http://www.usaskates.com/specials/special23.html) for $49.  If you find a deal on men's 10 1/2 or 11's let me know, I spend at least and hour every evening looking...

[Query]

So what I think you are saying is, these rentals may feel like they provide adequate support now, but they won't after a short while. Makes sense, since they are thinner than any reasonably high level boots.

I guess I need custom boots again. This time I must be smart about it, and be measured by the boot maker himself. Don Klingbeil recently spent some time on the phone telling me that even if he can rebuild my old (11 year?) boots, he makes better ones now.

I must find a part-time job to pay for it. Too bad I'm not good enough to coach for cash.

[SillyAdultSkater]

@ Jim

I got a bunch of super hard (almost like wood) sole leather that I got off a cobbler, and I am in the process of re-enforcing ankles on a pair of boots right now (they're my old risports that I used over the summer for my roller frames that were broken down to begin with, and are now even worse with shifted padding and what not).

If you're interested, we can share experience. So far I'm still looking for the right tools to remove the hooks (and be able to re-insert them) as this would make my life on the re-building part tons easier with better access. I've opened up the skates from the top so far (wanna open them up along the hook side too) and it's actually super easy inside - Layer of leather (outside), layer of plastic (heel), layer of some kind of glue on some kind of textile fabric like linen which runs over the inside of the leather and the plastic in the heel area, then a layer of super simple foam padding, then the inside layer of chamois leather inside of the boot. Basically I'll need to insert the layer of leather inbetween the outside leather and the foam padding and/or replace the padding.

BTW, even if I'm not a fan of Risports for myself due to Risport makers and my DNA disagreeing on what shape a foot should be, I think Risport is fundamentally a lot of value of skate for your money. People I know who skate many times a week take like three years to break them down or even don't but just literally wear through the leather from lunges and what not. The only reason I broke mine down was because I underbooted severely (the indication for my boots is waltz jumps, I was trying axels in them and doing lutzes). The padding in Risports is a little on the meager side but not startingly so but they're also not very expensive compared to Grafs and some other brands we have around here. Your weight, assume trying all singles, I'm thinking RF3, RF3 super or the (super) Cristallo - the ancestor of the RF3? You'd be overbooting with an RF2 unless you're doing lutzes and axels and underbooting with RF4 for anything over a loop (used to be called Laser).

@ Query
have you looked into donating blood or organs for money?  

[Query]

Wow, SillyAdultSkater! I had more in mind stiffening it by infusing it without taking it apart. You are way more ambitious than me, taking your own leather apart, and, I assume, re-stitching it. I'm sure that's the right way to do it, if you have the leathercraft skills.

Do you plan to restitch with a leather sewing awl (I'm told thick leather is too much for most sewing machines)?

FWIIW, Klingbeil reinforces their boots with hard leather, not plastic, unlike some other brands, which means that leather is good enough.

Klingbeil says they use natural materials on everything but the foam they use to pad the ankle, which might mean their leather is hardened by infusing Bootmaker's wax (Bee's wax + pine pitch), but I've read that leather can also be hardened by adhesives. The point being, hardened leather is good enough. Don Klingbeil claims that leather is best because it has more memory, which I guess means you can shape it better.

[SillyAdultSkater]

Eh, the holes in the leather from the previous stitches aren't going anywhere, I can stitch it back up by hand I reckon. I was cutting the leather for the insertion yesterday and it took me an hour to make a three inch cut. That stuff is.. incredibly hard. This is gonna be a bit by bit project. Luckily, I've all winter.

[AgnesNitt]

Eh, the holes in the leather from the previous stitches aren't going anywhere, I can stitch it back up by hand I reckon. I was cutting the leather for the insertion yesterday and it took me an hour to make a three inch cut. That stuff is.. incredibly hard. This is gonna be a bit by bit project. Luckily, I've all winter.

Two words: Dremel tool. http://www.dremel.com/en-us/AttachmentsAndAccessories/Pages/AttachmentsDetail.aspx?pid=MM491

[SillyAdultSkater]

Oh, buying hardware like that for the project would cancel out the point of doing it super low budget.

Yeah I've actually considered borrowing the electric figure saw off my mom, I've decided I'm ok with just doing it with patience. I know the cobbler I bought the sole leather from had a variety of saws and sanding down equipment in his shop.

[Skittl1321]

Oh, buying hardware like that for the project would cancel out the point of doing it super low budget.

Oh, but dremels do EVERYTHING.  We even trim the dog's nails with one.