Skate Buying Adventures

[Query]

For future reference, you do not have to be home when UPS arrives.

If you aren't home when UPS arrives, they will do one of two things: (a) leave the package on your doorstep. If you live in a really bad neighborhood, where someone may steal the package, and this is a bad thing. (b) if you had the shipper mark the package with "hold for signature", they leave you a note saying you weren't there when they tried to deliver. You can then call and schedule a delivery date with the local UPS depot.

There may also be a way (I haven't figured one out) to get UPS to only deliver a note, that lets you pick the package up from the local UPS depot.

[Orianna2000]

For future reference, you do not have to be home when UPS arrives.

If you aren't home when UPS arrives, they will do one of two things: (a) leave the package on your doorstep. If you live in a really bad neighborhood, where someone may steal the package, and this is a bad thing. (b) if you had the shipper mark the package with "hold for signature", they leave you a note saying you weren't there when they tried to deliver. You can then call and schedule a delivery date with the local UPS depot.

There may also be a way (I haven't figured one out) to get UPS to only deliver a note, that lets you pick the package up from the local UPS depot.

Several years ago, when we lived in an apartment, they would come and stick a note on our door saying they tried to deliver and we weren't home. We never had to call to schedule the delivery. They either tried again the next day, or we went and picked it up. The problem was, we were ALWAYS home! They never even tried knocking. Many times, I would hear the thump as they slapped the sticker on the door, but I never once heard them knock or ring the doorbell. We finally called UPS and complained about this, because it was really unfair. Apparently, they were just in a rush and assumed no one would be home, so they didn't waste time knocking. Ever.

I would assume, since the skates are worth more than $1,000, that they would require a signature and wouldn't just leave them on the doorstep. One would hope, anyway! In any case, I will be home tomorrow for sure. Not going to risk missing this delivery! 

[Sk8tmum]

Three cheers for the lady at Harlick!

I just received an email from UPS saying my skates are en route and will be delivered tomorrow! I don't know what the Harlick representative did, but it sure got results. According to the tracking information, the skates were shipped about 10 minutes after I emailed Harlick with my complaint.

are they shipped from USA Skates or Harlick? That would be interesting to determine

[jjane45]

are they shipped from USA Skates or Harlick? That would be interesting to determine

Yeah... Which city/state did it originate from on the tracking page?

[Orianna2000]

They've shipped from Anaheim, which is where USASkates is. I would have been upset otherwise, because USASkates was responsible for mounting the blades and they're also sending the custom insoles they fitted me for. If Harlick sent the skates directly, it would have just been the skates, without blades, without waterproofing, and without my Superfeet insoles. Since I paid for all that, I want to make sure I get it.

Here's a question: How can you tell if they've been properly waterproofed? I'd like to verify that they did, indeed, waterproof the skates as promised.

[hopskipjump]

They will be very glossy and varnished.

[Orianna2000]

Just the soles? Or the entire boot?

[irenar5]

Just the soles

[sarahspins]

I would assume, since the skates are worth more than $1,000, that they would require a signature and wouldn't just leave them on the doorstep.

Not always... every time I get my $6000 insulin pump replaced under warranty they just leave the new one at my door (though I do live in the middle of nowhere so I'm not worried it would disappear from my porch - and I could request that a signature be required if I wanted it).

What strikes me as even more odd is that the old one goes back to the company by regular USPS mail (they send a pre-paid label).. and it's not even insured as far as I can tell.

[Bunny Hop]

Well, the good news (other than that you'll finally get your skates!) is that next time you need new boots, you can go direct to Harlick and cut out the middle man, because Harlick will have a record of your measurements.

[Sk8tmum]

Re: waterproofing :. Unless you asked for varnish, the soles won't be shiny.  They will have a slightly waxy feel when you slide your finger along the leather, and there will be the same sort of patina you see on furniture that has been beeswaxed. 

Re: reordering.  You should get remeasured every time. Feet change and stance can too.

Enjoy the skates.  Be sure to follow Harlicks recommendations for breaking in: they are very detailed and very effective and if you do have a problem it's far more effective to complain if you've followed their specific directions!

[Orianna2000]

I've saved a copy of Harlick's break-in instructions, though it seems pretty straightforward: Leave the top two hooks undone while you skate for the first 4-6 hours. Then, leave just the top hook undone for the next 4-6 hours. No jumps, spins, or moves that require deep knee-bend during this time. That's it.

It will take awhile for me to break these boots in, since I usually only get to skate one hour (freestyle) a week (and half of that is my lesson). I'm hoping we can find a deserted public session in the evening during the week, so I can get more practice time in. It's hard when they're constantly changing the schedule around, but my husband and I have agreed that I'll make better progress if I can skate twice a week instead of just once, so we're going to try to make that happen.

Questions:

* Is it acceptable to use hair bands on the top hooks during the break-in period? Or would that defeat the purpose? I did request hooks on the tongue, so perhaps the hair bands will be unnecessary. Or are you supposed to leave the tongue-hooks undone, as well, during the break-in period?

* What constitutes "deep knee-bend" in their eyes? Can I do two-foot turns? That's the deepest knee-bending skill I have right now, I believe. I couldn't do them in my old skates (Jackson Classiques) unless I left the top two hooks undone. I'm in Adult 2, so the things I need to work on include forward stroking, 1/2 swizzle pumps on a circle (forwards & backwards), two-foot turns on a circle, forward edges (outside & inside), forward pivots, and forward chasses. And all the basics from Adult 1, as well, but those are probably fine.

[Kim to the Max]

They are talking more about dips and sit spins and jump landings and counters/rockers, etc.

To be honest, I am really bad and I don't follow the instructions. I was jumping and spinning in my skates on the second day I had them (just waltz, salchow, and toe loop - I was too chicken to do a loop or higher because of how still they were and did all basic spins - scratch, back scratch, camel and sit). I have never had any problems with my skates and how they break in. On average skates last me about 2 years, maybe a little more and I'm on the ice 6-7 days a week for 2-3 hours a day.

[Orianna2000]

I'm starting to get really nervous. Like, sick to my stomach nervous. I'm so afraid they won't fit, or will have some major problem that can't be fixed, like maybe the ankle will cut into my Achilles tendon like the Riedell skates do. I'm trying to be optimistic, but it's really hard. A few more hours and we'll know whether they fit, but it's killing me!

[hopskipjump]

Leave the top two hooks undone while you skate for the first 4-6 hours. Then, leave just the top hook undone for the next 4-6 hours. No jumps, spins, or moves that require deep knee-bend during this time. That's it.

You won't put anything on the top two hooks.  They will be really stiff, a hairband won't do anything.

A deep knee bend - no shoot the ducks, really low sit spins - really you don't have to worry, they will feel stiff like blocks of wood on your feet you won't be able to do deep knee bends.

Just spend the 4-6 hours stroking, when you feel comfortable add in more stuff.

[hopskipjump]

USA does the varnish - lots of layers of varnish and her name.  The varnish reminds me of the kind they use on wood boats.  Very durable and glossy.

[FigureSpins]

That's probably why there was a delay - varnish takes a long time to dry between coats and the fumes are heady.  If the weather is humid, the varnish dries slower.  Most places don't have a climate-controlled space with adequate ventilation.  I always hated varnishing my skates because I have no patience.

[sarahspins]

At your level there's really not much you can do that could potentially damage or shorten the lifespan of your boots. 

Skaters at higher levels who are too agressive jumping and spinning in new boots may develop creases in the boots at the ankles in the wrong places since those creases can start forming before the boot has actually molded to the foot (which is the main reason behind the slow break in process, to form the boots to the foot before breaking in the ankles).  That is actually one way that heat molding helps out.. because it greatly shortens the break-in time by skipping the time required for the boots to form to the feet.

[FigureSpins]

Skaters at higher levels who are too agressive jumping and spinning in new boots may develop creases in the boots at the ankles in the wrong places since those creases can start forming before the boot has actually molded to the foot (which is the main reason behind the slow break in process, to form the boots to the foot before breaking in the ankles).  That is actually one way that heat molding helps out.. because it greatly shortens the break-in time by skipping the time required for the boots to form to the feet.

Wow - that's a great observation.  Never thought about it from that view, thanks.

[Sk8tmum]

I'm starting to get really nervous. Like, sick to my stomach nervous. I'm so afraid they won't fit, or will have some major problem that can't be fixed, like maybe the ankle will cut into my Achilles tendon like the Riedell skates do. I'm trying to be optimistic, but it's really hard. A few more hours and we'll know whether they fit, but it's killing me!

IIRC, you did not order super-stiff boots. They will be fine. IF you cannot bend them from day one - then, they're way too stiff, so, don't worry about that, based on what you ordered, you did fine. You won't need the hairbands on the hooks at all. 

The deep knee bend thing - my kid could bend them from day one, as they were properly fitted and the proper level of stiffness was chosen.  However, he was told, specifically, to avoid aggressive stroking for those first break in stages as that does have a deep knee bend, as well as jumps and anything other than an upright spin.

His coach and the fitter both strongly directed him to follow the instructions; they are what is recommended anyways for boots, so it wasn't a big deal.  He's broken in many pairs over the years, custom before too, and this method worked very well.

I would suggest you replace the laces though - the Harlick provided ones were dreadful, they stretched like crazy and cut even his very well toughened fingers.

[Orianna2000]

I really liked the laces that came with my Classiques, so unless I find that I love Harlick's laces, I'll probably switch over to those.

The stiffness I ordered was the lightest level. Hopefully it's not too flexible, but I figured it'd be easier to stiffen the boot if they're too light, than to deal with too-stiff boots.

That's probably why there was a delay - varnish takes a long time to dry between coats and the fumes are heady.  If the weather is humid, the varnish dries slower.  Most places don't have a climate-controlled space with adequate ventilation.  I always hated varnishing my skates because I have no patience.

I could buy this, except--why did they lie to me? Two weeks ago, they said, "The skates are being waterproofed today, they'll be ready by this evening, and we'll ship them first thing in the morning." That was two weeks after they'd supposedly got the skates from Harlick, meaning they had my skates for four weeks. Even with several layers of varnish, it couldn't possibly take THAT long to waterproof them. And if it did, all they had to do was say, "Look, it's going to take awhile for us to waterproof them." I would have understood! But instead, they just kept stringing me along.

[sarahspins]

The laces on jackson are cotton-poly blend.. I prefer those to all nylon as well.. I think they hold tighter (nylon slips), and they're easier to tie.

[Orianna2000]

Update:
My skates finally arrived around 5:45 pm. I wanted to complain, but then I saw the UPS guy drenched in sweat. I guess he's been making deliveries all day in his open truck with no AC. That can't be an easy job, so I felt bad for him. No signature was required, he dropped them by the door, rang the bell, and walked off.

They did remember the custom insoles, although they scared us, because they weren't in the box. Turns out they'd already put them inside the skates. Which, upon reflection, probably means my skates don't have insoles. That could be inconvenient if I decide I don't like the Superfeet. There was no note of apology--not that I expected one--but there were a few freebies: two pairs of laces (though the skates had none, so I guess it's technically one pair of free laces), a pair of "TuffTerrys" soakers, and a pair of hard guards.

The skates themselves are beautiful. Nice coloring, gorgeous leather, brass hooks, very nice. The rubber sponge tongues are a bit . . . weird. It'll take some getting used to the texture, but I'm sure they'll be comfortable. Minor complaint--no name on the soles! I didn't really care one way or the other about that, so it's no big deal, except that they did promise it. However, it's possible they weren't able to do it because Harlick's name is inscribed beautifully on the soles. So either they forgot my name and decided "Harlick" would do, or Harlick branded them first.

So, I took a deep breath and put the skates on. My first impression? PAIN. Oh-my-God-please-make-it-stop pain. Mainly at my big toe, which appears to be about an eighth of an inch longer than the inside of the skate.

I was ready to throw the stupid things out the nearest window, but I remembered one of y'all had said they change shape when they're laced. So I decided to give that a try. I tapped my foot back and laced them all proper-like. The pain eased a little. Huge relief.

Then I stood up.

It felt like someone had jabbed a screwdriver under my big toenail. My toe strikes against what feels like wood, but which I'm sure is just the hard leather interior of the toe box. There is also pain at my bunions. The skates are skintight, so whenever I flex my foot, the bunions at my pinkie toe and big toe get pressed upon, resulting in a stabbing pain. I imagine they can punch those out, if necessary, but my husband wants me to wait and see if they'll "break in" and eventually mold to my foot.

I think my Classiques stretched as I wore them, so that after a couple months they were longer in the toe. However, I'm wondering if I can skate in these meanwhile. How do you break them in when they're so painful you want to cry? The whole reason I got custom skates was so they would fit my feet and I wouldn't have to suffer while skating anymore.

So, what can I do? Can I use moleskin or something to pad the bunions? Will that make a difference or will the extra padding make them tighter against the bunion, increasing the pain? Can I put moleskin down in the toes to pad my big toe? Or will that make them worse? Can I put shoe horns or something in there to stretch the boot out? It doesn't need to be much bigger, I just need to ease the pressure on my big toe until they stretch on their own. (I hope.)

My husband wanted to go skating tonight. I'm thinking, you've gotta be kidding me! I'm not going on the ice in these things until I can stand up in them without wanting to cry. I know they need time to adjust and break-in. Discomfort, I expected. But not pain. Not like this. What is WRONG with my stupid feet?

[Sk8tmum]

There is NOTHING wrong with your feet.  It sounds like the custom fitting isn't correct. It should have addressed a too-long big toe.  But - before we all panic:  Unlace them down to the toe. Put your feet in. Start lacing up. Pull it as TIGHT AS YOU CAN on each lace cross - or get your husband to pull them. You should feel the toe of the skate lifting up and away. 

The only reason I want you to try relacing them is that my kid had similar "oh crap, they're pushing on my toe" when he put his on, but, when he pulled the lacing really tight, it went away.

IF that doesn't do it, then, complain. Custom skates should fit all of the quirks and oddities of your feet.  You could try to get it punched or stretched, but, why should you? They're custom ! they should fit! (plus, it's hard to get toes punched out).

[irenar5]

Do not worry- when you stand, your balance is not the same as when you skate.  When you bend your knees, the heel will sink further back and the toes will retreat.

I think Harlicks  are really cut to the foot shape.  My Riedells had room in the toes (even though my measurements were correct) and that drove me crazy  when I bent my knees.  With the custom Harlicks I can feel the toe barely brushing up against the front when I skate, but it really pushes into it when I just stand with straight knees.  Make sure you BEND, BEND , BEND your knees when you skate.

Bunions have to be punched out right away- no reason to suffer!  I had the same issue with my ankle bones- I could not even lace up the skates when I first got them- there was so much pain.  They heat molded the boots first and that did not solve the issue at all!  A couple of punches make a HUGE difference.   They will feel very stiff, so follow Harlick's break-in - they will break in and feel good, but since you do not skate a lot, it will take longer :-(   

I am happy to hear you finally got the boots!