Identifying Passing Standards at Test Sessions

Sk8tmum · November 17, 2011, 08:14:45 AM

I simply did my research, asked coaches, watched test sessions, hung around with judges and evaluators on test days, and talked to my skaters; they are in continuous contact with their coaches, they get to interact with the judges, and I also asked knowledgeable parents, and I know far more than I used to. However, as I'm not a skater, there's only "so much" that I can learn - for example, I don't skate a bracket, so, I'm not intimately aware the way that a skater has to be on the way the edges work, etc. The parents who are ex or current skaters are so far beyond anything that I could ever expect to know ...

Judges and evaluators are required to have a minimum skating background in Canada before they can begin the progression; and then they have to do clinics, work under supervision, write exams, and pass evaluated standards. There is no way in the world that I could ever be at their level. So, I rely on my coach, and now that they are older, on my skaters.

I can interpret, for example, comments that say "wide stepping" on a mohawk, scratchy edges, underrotated jumps, etc etc etc, but, I can't "call" them myself. So, I can understand the feedback, but, I would never expect to be able to "judge or evaluate" the element. Except for a sit spin. I can call those things like nobody's business !!!!

I've seen more than a few clubs get in judges for seminars. It can be useful if the judge is articulate; you also sort of/kind of should divide parents into "entry level" or "advanced" as the quesitons tend to be very different.

PinkLaces · November 20, 2011, 09:31:35 PM

Thought I would pop in with my comments since my quote started this thread. I was ironically at a test session (out of town not mine) that my DD was testing dance at.

As a test chair, I would never and am not supposed to (if you read the USFS Guide for test chairs) give the results to anyone one, but the skater. The club my DD was testing at gave the results to the coaches to give to the skaters. If anyone asked me, what the results of a certain test were...even the parents...I would tell them that I couldn't give the results to anyone, but the skater.

Now I suppose that you could find out the results by a bit of observation. If you look at the skaters after they get their papers, they are usually pretty happy (if they pass) and more serious or even sad (if they get a retry). Plus, usually we post a congrats to skaters who passed tests on our website and club bulletin board at the rink. It doesn't really help you find out the whys though.

Our club is not lucky enough to have any judges. We are lucky to have 7 judges that will come to our test sessions with frequency. I have been a test chair over 4 years.I have seen 100's of tests. I know Diet Coke must be present at every test session. I know that Judge A has to have coffee immediately upon entering the rink. If it's late, I will hear about it 'til it comes. I know Judge B loves the real young skaters and to always give her the little Pre-pre's (makes her so happy she giggles). I know Judge C is a good judge to assign to skaters with taking their first test and are nervous - he is great at putting them at ease. Judges D & E are also dance judges and will expect nice extention and flow when called for. They will also be more picky about edge quality and knee bend. Judges F & G expect good power when the test pattern calls for power.

After viewing so many tests, I can get a good feel if I think the test will pass or not, but I couldn't pick out why definatively. It mostly has to do with the way the skater looks during testing. Are their lobes big? Are they curved - not flat? Do they have good flow or are they jerky? Do the turns look smooth or do they look rushed or unsteady? Does the skating have power? Do I hear scraping while they are skating? Did they fall? Are the landings smooth or choppy or spinny? Does the spin travel - have enough revolutions? Mostly I am right, but sometimes wrong. Sometimes tests are close where I can't guess - but I always hope the best for the skater.

PinkLaces · November 20, 2011, 09:39:45 PM

Anyone interested in the test chair position and rules/guideline may be interested in the US Figure Skating Guide for test chairs.

http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/Guide%20for%20Test%20Chair.pdf

isakswings · November 22, 2011, 10:53:12 PM

We give the test papers directly to the skaters. The skaters then share the results with their coaches. Runners bring the papers folded to the skater. If the skater passes, they recieve their patch with their results, We put the patch on the inside of the papers. Runners are not supposed to look at the results and if they DO know the results, they are not suppose to share them!

phoenix · November 23, 2011, 09:52:23 AM

Interesting--every place I've ever skated at or coached at has given the results to the coach first.

twokidsskatemom · November 23, 2011, 02:15:30 PM

I am a test chair and I have always given results to the coaches UNLESS the coach is putting someone else on and the skater is a teen or adult that I know and they passed.

Skate@Delaware · November 23, 2011, 02:55:55 PM

At my rink, the results are given directly to the coaches. From there the coach tells the skater the results and goes over the marks with the skater.

Skittl1321 · November 23, 2011, 03:07:45 PM

Yep. When I tested without a coach, the test chair was really confused and tried to tell me that she would have to mail it to my coach. I told her the reason I tested without a coach is because I didn't have one (well according to USFS anyway...), and she finally let me have my papers!

isakswings · November 23, 2011, 05:02:29 PM

Quote from: Skittl1321 on November 23, 2011, 03:07:45 PM
Yep. When I tested without a coach, the test chair was really confused and tried to tell me that she would have to mail it to my coach. I told her the reason I tested without a coach is because I didn't have one (well according to USFS anyway...), and she finally let me have my papers!

Interesting! Every where we test here, gives the results to the skaters. The skaters are usually close to the coaches, so the coach gets the results at the same time. I wonder why it varies?

Sk8tmum · November 23, 2011, 05:11:17 PM

I have seen sheets given to ADULT skaters by test chairs, or at very small test days at very small clubs, on rare occasion; however, otherwise, it goes to the coach. The coach is after all the one who is "responsible" for submitting the test, and for interpreting the result for the skater.

Me, I think it's less stress for the test chair

they don't have to feel the pain of giving a skater a retry ... or deal with the furious skating mum !

Best(worst) and (saddest) scene past week. My kid had a nasty injury but tested a dance. Passed the dance, thankfully. Overheard: a "skating mom" - "look at THAT ! That skater can't even walk properly and THEIR DANCE PASSED! WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU!!!!" the caps are intended to simulate the loudness of the voice ... and I'm just picturing how much fun it probably was to give the retry results to that skater and her mother ...

Isk8NYC · November 23, 2011, 07:48:38 PM

Our Club usually gives the sheets to the coach, although they get confused when my kids test (thinking I'm their coach) and give me the sheets instead, lol.

AgnesNitt · November 23, 2011, 07:56:30 PM

Quote from: Sk8tmum on November 23, 2011, 05:11:17 PM

Best(worst) and (saddest) scene past week. My kid had a nasty injury but tested a dance. Passed the dance, thankfully. Overheard: a "skating mom" - "look at THAT ! That skater can't even walk properly and THEIR DANCE PASSED! WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU!!!!" the caps are intended to simulate the loudness of the voice ... and I'm just picturing how much fun it probably was to give the retry results to that skater and her mother ...

Stealing from Doonesbury say: "She has good manners, we like to think that counts for something." or
Stealing from my mother: "you have no class" in a withering tone.

Sk8tmum · November 23, 2011, 08:04:16 PM

Quote from: AgnesNitt on November 23, 2011, 07:56:30 PM
Stealing from Doonesbury say: "She has good manners, we like to think that counts for something." or
Stealing from my mother: "you have no class" in a withering tone.

Or my mother, "somebody needs to put out the trash"

Query · November 24, 2011, 08:12:30 AM

I'm certainly not an expert on any of this, just a low level skater. But to point out what I've mentioned before:

The USFSA Basic Skills DVD (is specifically intended to show minimum passing standards (for Basic Skills lessons only). The USFSA Basic Skills Instructors Manual also has some standards, but they are higher than what the DVD says should pass. Other people have said that all other USFSA tests have higher standards than BS levels - I think BS tests and competition results are kept within individual rink programs, and are not reported to the national USFSA organization.

AFAIK, the DVD and manual are not directly available to coaches or skaters. But if you know a USFSA BS Program director, they can get them cheap.

http://www.usfigureskating.org/content/BS-orderform.pdf)

You can also get the manual only by registering yourself as a USFSA BS Instructor - pricey. At one point, the Universal Sports store offered the DVD - not sure about now.

The ISI Handbook and DVD (which shows minimum passing standards for the ISI) is available fairly cheaply to all ISI members, but have no official application to the USFSA. The ISU publishes hints about ISU competition standards - e.g., in their "Elements of figure skating" CDs (would hold videos, including comments from judges), and in a set of other manuals and DVDs. I have no idea to what extant ISU competition standards impact USFSA test standards.

Somewhere near the back of the Rulebook or Test Book, the USFSA has samples of passing and non-passing ice dance test sheets, with comments. Not sure if there is anything similar for freestyle or pairs.

The USFSA has officially recognized the PSA as the educating body for coaches and judges, so perhaps they wouldn't want to undermine the PSA's economic viability by making clearer standards available to everyone, nor would the PSA would undermine itself by making it too cheap to find these things out.

An observant person might guess whether skaters passed or failed from their expressions and conversations, or from those of their parents.

Skate@Delaware · November 25, 2011, 04:07:39 PM

The best way to find out what is passing in your area is to attend a test session and watch the test for the test you are going to try. A video is good for generalizations. In my area, the judges test a lot of adults, but prefer moves that have a dance bend to them, which is popular in my particular area. That may not be true in other areas. Also, you might want to do a test run with your coach who has tested a lot of adults as well, as they are more experienced with what has passed. A good coach will not have you test if he/she doesn't feel you are ready to test. It's a waste of time and money to do so, plus it isn't good for their reputation.

If you are looking for a very basic "what are they looking for" type of thing, go to the USFSA site and search for the trial judges score sheets for the particular element. I do this for each test. It is the same thing as the rule book (i.e. "extension" or "quickness of step" type of statements) but it's in a concise format for that particular test.

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Identifying Passing Standards at Test Sessions