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Author Topic: Is this considered sandbagging?  (Read 2393 times)

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Offline Schmeck

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Re: Is this considered sandbagging?
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2011, 06:22:49 PM »
Competing at FS5 for a year+ is not sandbagging.  It means she has not tested out of that level yet.  When my daughter started out in basic skills, you could compete up one level at some competitions, so that skater might have been FS4 competing at FS5, and is staying there because she still hasn't mastered the FS5 elements, so isn't quite confident enough to compete up at FS6.

What is on the FS5 level anyways?  My daughter tested through a few levels at once, and I can't remember what was on each one - I got stuck at FS2 (or 3?), so I never got passed salchow...

Off to hunt through the old skating stuff, now I'm curious!

Offline sarahspins

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Re: Is this considered sandbagging?
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2011, 07:24:06 PM »
Is this ISI or USFSA?  Lots of skaters get "stuck" at FS5 with ISI... the axel/half loop/2sal combo is really difficult for some skaters, plus some may have other doubles before they have a solid 2sal.  I had a consistent 2loop and a sometime 2flip and 2toe and I couldn't do a reliable 2sal... staying at FS5 didn't mean I was sandbagging, it simply meant I couldn't pass the next test.

Offline jumpingbeansmom

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Re: Is this considered sandbagging?
« Reply #27 on: September 20, 2011, 07:18:40 AM »
My dd was in the same group with the skater with the triple flip at Liberty...gorgeous triple flip! That girl is a natural born jumper!

I agree... do you know how old she is?  Once she gets them under more control, she is going to be really good.

Offline isakswings

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Re: Is this considered sandbagging?
« Reply #28 on: September 20, 2011, 09:40:24 AM »
We had that last year too... not only that, one of the girls than hung back WON our region, two years in a row.   I don't know, I would think once my kid one regionals, it would be time to move on.

I thought once you or place at the regional level, you have to move up by the next regionals? A girl in our club had to move up since she placed in the top 4. Maybe that was her coaches rule?

Offline isakswings

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Re: Is this considered sandbagging?
« Reply #29 on: September 20, 2011, 09:53:12 AM »
For some competitive skaters, the decision to "stay" in a level in which the skater was very successful in the previous year may be due to injury, or to factors such as the "puberty monster" hitting, resulting in jumps, spins, etc being lost, resulting in the skater being not ready to move up to the next level, or, even, not being competitive at his/her current level.

I've seen quite a few very successful young skaters suddenly struggling when a growth spurt or body change radically changes what they can land, and how well they manage on the ice.  Moving them up to a level would be inappropriate when they are not now ready to be competitive at that level; and this also applies to what you refer to as "test track" skaters (in Canada, StarSkate), and to rather low level skaters.

My kid has stuck at a level; others have moved up; but, the combination of injury and growth spurt = we're not going up a level, this year. Hopefully, next year.


YUP! My skater is only at the pre-pre level and is working on moving up to the preliminary level. We hoped to move her up this fall, but it likely won't happen for a few more months. Her 2 sal is not consistent and 2 toe is not there yet. She is a skater who hit puberty and the once consistent axel was constantly going away. It is finally consistent and it took her about 6 months to get it back to BEING consistent. In competition, she would land one out of 2 axels and has only landed it twice in once competition. Anyway, the problem is, I feel pressure to move her up even though she is not ready. She has been in pre-pre for a year now. Like I said, there are good reasons WHY she is still in pre-pre, but those who know she has been in the level this long, might think she should be moving up now. Technically, we COULD move her up but I would really like to see her landing her 2 sal a little more frequently then she does now. When she moved into pre-pre, we knew it was going to be harder for her because that axel was playing hide and go seek. Growing several inches and gaining almost 20 pounds in a 6 month period will contribute to that. Dd will move up and possibly by the next competition, but I am not going to pressure her to do that. She'll move up and yes, some kids will pass her up. But in our case, we also have less lessons and ice time then some of those kids. Not to mention, all kids progress at different rates. She will get it. She isn't far from it. We aren't waiting for perfection, just a tad more frequent. LOL! In the meantime, her spins are improving and they are working on technical stuff.

Offline isakswings

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Re: Is this considered sandbagging?
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2011, 10:23:40 AM »
I think it's a personal decision, especially at the lower - non-qualifying levels and even more so at the basic skills level.  Skating is a marathon - not a sprint.  When you get to the qualifying levels of novice thru senior, it does become much more strategical.  With that said - is it your child's intent to win every competition?  That's not really all that feasible and probably, some will disagree, not that good for the skater.  If staying back in order to win at the very low levels is important to some, that's fine.  Personally - we (my skater included) couldn't wait to get out of the basic skills series.  My daughter, by the end of a season, is usually finishing in the top half of the skaters and that's fine with us.  We make sure she's "competitive" at her levels but we really are looking at the big picture not the individual competitions.  

In regards to the lower levels, when my daughter was much younger and starting at pre-pre, it was challenging however I told her that if what she wanted was a medal, she could compete snowplow sam and probably win (yes, I know it wasn't possible, but she was young and didn't know).  When I would pose that question to her, she "got it".  Yes, medals are shiny and pretty and it's fun to stand at the top of the podium.  However, it's more fun for the skater, in my opinion, to work really hard on an element and finally get it and then compete with that element and get credit for it!  It's the process or the journey, not some moment in time where a few kids put on pretty dresses and skate to music for a minute or two.  

So....to answer your question about sandbagging -  yes, it happens, but in the long run, it's really not all that healthy for the skaters.  They can't win everything and eventually they will have to move up and adjust.  

I agree! Everyone has to learn that you do not always win and sometimes, even when you try your very best, you lose. It doesn't mean you are a bad skater and it doesn't mean you can't eventually win. My daughter has placed all over the board and when she DOES place 1st, it really means something to her. One of the reasons she is competing is because I think it teaches great life lessons. In the real world, you are not going to get everything you want. It's better to learn how to handle disappointment now then when you are older and on your own. That said, the decision to move up or stay is so individual and we need to be careful not to judge the skater, coach or parent.  I know I'm guilty of judging at times too. For the most part, I do not see a lot of sandbagging. Or perhaps I do not notice it?

Offline Skittl1321

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Re: Is this considered sandbagging?
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2011, 11:26:23 AM »
I thought once you or place at the regional level, you have to move up by the next regionals? A girl in our club had to move up since she placed in the top 4. Maybe that was her coaches rule?

I think this is the rule you are thinking of:

Quote
2430 Previous Winners – Regionals/Sectionals/Nationals
2431 Winners of junior and novice events at the U.S. Figure Skating Championships may compete at the same level the following season; however, if they choose to do so, they must bypass regionals and begin competing at their sectional championship. Prior year (singles) winners moving up one or more levels must start at a regional championship.
2432 Previous winners of events at regional championships must compete at regionals again to qualify for the sectional championships, unless otherwise qualified under rule 2472.
2433 Previous winners of the U.S. Junior Figure Skating Championships are not eligible to compete again at the same level.
A. Either partner of a pair or dance couple may re-enter with a different partner if otherwise eligible.

Basically it says winning regionals doesn't give you a bye to next years sectionals.  And if you win Junior Nats, you have to move up, but no one else has to.  Must be the coach's rule.

Offline twokidsskatemom

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Re: Is this considered sandbagging?
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2011, 12:27:31 PM »
Two of the girls that didnt move up are placing in the 40s, so no its not because they  arent doing well they stayed back.I still think too much is placed on going to Jr nats.Next year you have to do sectionals to go on and I think its a better system.
My DS could have moved up to juv and gone to Jr nats this year in our region.We would rather him be a stronger skater and wait till next year.

Offline MimiG

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Re: Is this considered sandbagging?
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2011, 12:40:00 PM »
My general advice on sandbagging is to not worry about other skaters/coaches that may or may not be doing it. You can't change or control what your competitors are doing anyway, and you still have to compete against them, so might as well save the energy and focus on your own skating.

I also feel that sandbagging is brought up far too quickly, when people don't know what reasons the other skater might have for not moving up - many great reasons have already been mentioned in this thread.

Offline FigureSpins

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Re: Is this considered sandbagging?
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2011, 01:02:54 PM »
I agree that the label is thrown out there entirely too freely and in many cases, unfairly. 
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Offline falen

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Re: Is this considered sandbagging?
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2011, 03:06:18 PM »
My general advice on sandbagging is to not worry about other skaters/coaches that may or may not be doing it. You can't change or control what your competitors are doing anyway, and you still have to compete against them, so might as well save the energy and focus on your own skating.

I also feel that sandbagging is brought up far too quickly, when people don't know what reasons the other skater might have for not moving up - many great reasons have already been mentioned in this thread.

Yes it does.  my dd has breezed through some levels really quick.  she had to repeat basic 3 I think 3 times and competed at that level once.  So it took a little less than a year to get through to 3.  Then she finally got the hang of going backwards and I think sailed through to Basic 8 really fast probably 3-4 months.  I was afraid it would raise some eyebrows at the next comp.  And in audience I did hear some girls remember her and squak to thier parents about how unfair it is.  FS 1 took a little longer. and 2 was brutal.  She could do a lutz in 2 weeks, but couldn't pass FS2!  Kids go at thier own pace.