Toe pushing by elite skaters?

[sampaguita]

I saw a video of the warmup of the ladies at the 2008 Skate America

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgLd2wuV-F8

Am I imagining it, or did I really see some of the ladies toe-push before doing proper stroking? Is this because toe-pushing IS an effective way to gain initial speed?

[Skittl1321]

When they took the ice they didn't start with long extended strokes, but I don't think any of them pushed off the ice with their toe picks in it. 
It just looked like they were doing short little strokes,so you don't get quite the sideways push.

[CrossStroke]

Well, it does look like Rachael pushed off the toe picks a few times just after taking the ice.  Maybe just a certain peculiar habit?  Others, like Skittl1321 said, just did a few very quick pushes, not really toe-picked.

[sampaguita]

Rachael and the two girls before her seemed to be toe-pushing to me...I'm a bit confused as I thought toe-pushing was taboo!

[FigureSpins]

Toe pushing is taboo, especially at the lowest levels of skating, except for a toe-push for edge changes such as on entries to jumps.  Every power skating class emphasizes the use of inside edge pushes, not toe pushes.  That includes the crossover underpush, which I think the OP struggles with, iirc.

Word of advice: do NOT use YouTube videos of elite skaters as your guide to test or competition standards.  I've seen many USFSA and ISI judges' test sheets with comments about toe-pushing.  I've heard judges mention it to coaches after competition events.  The ISI and USFSA instructors' manuals both say that toe pushing isn't allowed and that the skater shouldn't pass the level if they can't prevent it from happening. 

I've watched many adults and children at test sessions.  The adults that struggle are the ones that lapse into ape-skating during the warmups, between elements/patterns, and when they are leaving the ice.  It's an awful habit that brings down their performance as a whole.  For some reason, the kids keep it in check from the second their feet touch the ice until they leave.  Something to remember: you're always on display when you're on the ice.

When I see the elite skaters clomp onto the ice, toe push and skate hunched over like monkeys, even during warmups, it makes me shake my head.  I guess they figure the judging doesn't start until the music starts.  That's less likely to happen in local/smaller competitions and test sessions.

I don't *think* they're doing it intentionally - could they be using it as a way to warmup their feet, by rolling waaaaaay up to the toepicks?

[techskater]

Rachael and the two girls before her seemed to be toe-pushing to me...I'm a bit confused as I thought toe-pushing was taboo!

It IS taboo and Rachel is routinely called out on fan boards for being a slower skater.  She would definitely NOT be my "elite example".  Watch Chan, Kim and Kwan especially skate - they are both very well known as great SKATERS - fast and quiet on their edges.

[sampaguita]

Ape-skating = skating with the torso leaning too far forward?


In any case, why do these elite skaters have these bad habits? Any guesses? I think that ape-skating is a natural response of the body to moving at high speeds (speedskaters do the same thing), but the reason behind toe-pushing eludes me...

[Isk8NYC]

I think they're just not thinking about it - they're focused on getting out of the gate for the warmup.

[icedancer]

Ape-skating = skating with the torso leaning too far forward?

I like the ape- analogy - I was thinking it was like a turtle because a certain slowness also sets in.