blades

[falen]

Finally got around to a consult.  So dd is in blades that come with skates that are Jackson.  It is 8 ft rocker.  Coach thinks upgrade to Coronation at 7 ft rocker to help with spins.  DD is afraid to loose her jumps which are surpisingly good.  What is the transition like?  What to expect?

[isakswings]

My dd has never taken long getting use to blades. Last year, she went from a Jackson blade to a Mk Pro blade. No problem at all. Mk Pro has a 7 in rocker too. I hear Coronation Aces are quite similar to Mk Pro blades.. I bet after a couple of times using the new blades, your daughter will be just fine. She might even notice an improvement. The Coro Aces will have a better toe pick on them then the blades she currently has. She might see improvement in her jumps AND her spins. I think the only reason she might have a harder time adjusting to blades is if they were TOO much blade for her. IE: the toe pick was more then she could handle. However, since her coach reccomended the Coro Ace, I would think the transistion will go smoothly. The pick on those blades isn't bad at all! Good luck!

Edited to add: I am assuming the Jackson blades she currently has came one a boot/blade combo. Jackson also makes higher end blades which are quite nice. I didn't want anyone to think I was thinking all Ultima/Jackson blades were the same. LOL

[sarahspins]

Agreed, she'll probably be just fine

My experience is that it's really not any "worse" to go from one blade to another than it is to simply go from an old blade to a new blade (same model)... you still have to adjust a bit.  A 7' rocker generally gives you a bigger "sweet spot" for spinning than an 8' blade does, but really it depends on the specific profile of the blade(s) in question.

[Sk8tmum]

Toepicks - that might be the bigger issue (if the Aces are a bigger toepick) and if she is not used to cross-cut picks.  Aces are popular for a reason - they are great blades - but, once you go to them, you are going to have to keep paying for them, which, is over $200 a pair of blades (Canadian prices, around $245).  You could get the Ultima blade that is a Ace clone for a bit less money, though ...

[falen]

that is good to hear!  She is on the jackons that come with the boot.  I am told all jackson have the 8 ft rock, so anything ultima we can't get since coach wants her to get into the 7 rock since her spins are really holding her back. 

[fsk8r]

I wouldn't dismiss the Ultima just because they say they're 8ft rocker. I've just switched from one 8ft rocker (ISE Sterling) to Ultima Legacy and the change is dramatic. The Legacy really is a clone of the Ace.
Also an old worn down pair of 7ft blades will start to resemble an 8ft rocker with a couple of slightly duff grinds (and that's not enough that you'll notice at the time). Just switching to new blades gives you a more pronounced rocker.
But I'd agree that the biggest challenge might be the toe-picks if she's switching from small ones to large ones.

[Sk8tmum]

that is good to hear!  She is on the jackons that come with the boot.  I am told all jackson have the 8 ft rock, so anything ultima we can't get since coach wants her to get into the 7 rock since her spins are really holding her back. 

 Jackson's Ultimas are clones of other blades; the Legacy is an Ace clone, there is also a Gold Seal Clone, Pattern 99 clone, etc.  Jackson themselves advertise this with a cross-reference chart. Now, they don't show a "match" for the Ultima Lites, however, our blade gurus have identified it to me as the same profile as an Ace. 

There is no "magic" to a 7 foot rocker for improving spins ... otherwise, everybody would have that same rocker ... also, the change in rocker will definitely affect jump landings, and stroking.  We had quite a problem for both kids changing from a Comet to an Ace - it took more than a few weeks - and the spins also had to be re-gained ... there are always tradeoffs, and everybody is different in terms of the rocker, toepick etc that suits them. The biggest improvement for spins came with stronger core strength and increase in those lovely upper leg muscles that are needed to get UP and DOWN  - basically off-ice stuff ...

Here's a link to the chart:

http://www.tournament-sports.com/_uploadfile/catalogues/Blade%20Comparison%20Chart%202008.pdf

[Skate@Delaware]

Jackson's Ultimas are clones of other blades; the Legacy is an Ace clone, there is also a Gold Seal Clone, Pattern 99 clone, etc.  Jackson themselves advertise this with a cross-reference chart. Now, they don't show a "match" for the Ultima Lites, however, our blade gurus have identified it to me as the same profile as an Ace. 

There is no "magic" to a 7 foot rocker for improving spins ... otherwise, everybody would have that same rocker ... also, the change in rocker will definitely affect jump landings, and stroking.  We had quite a problem for both kids changing from a Comet to an Ace - it took more than a few weeks - and the spins also had to be re-gained ... there are always tradeoffs, and everybody is different in terms of the rocker, toepick etc that suits them. The biggest improvement for spins came with stronger core strength and increase in those lovely upper leg muscles that are needed to get UP and DOWN  - basically off-ice stuff ...

Here's a link to the chart:

http://www.tournament-sports.com/_uploadfile/catalogues/Blade%20Comparison%20Chart%202008.pdf

what she said 
I changed over from Comets to Aces and it took about 2 weeks of intermittent skating (I was skating in the summer) to get the feel of the blade. It was more dicey on jumps as the rocker really made me feel wobbly. Spins-I felt no difference as my spins were crapola by that point. It's good to know about the Jackson version.

[FigureSpins]

Jackson's Ultimas are clones of other blades; the Legacy is an Ace clone, there is also a Gold Seal Clone, Pattern 99 clone, etc.  Jackson themselves advertise this with a cross-reference chart. Now, they don't show a "match" for the Ultima Lites, however, our blade gurus have identified it to me as the same profile as an Ace. 
<snip>

Here's a link to the chart:
http://www.tournament-sports.com/_uploadfile/catalogues/Blade%20Comparison%20Chart%202008.pdf

I'm going to ask about this at the PSA trade show next month because it's intriguing to me that an Ultima blade with a 8' rocker can have "the same profile" as a 7'-rockered MK or Wilson blade.  The same goes for the new Riedell Eclipse blades - different rocker, same profile. Ditto for the Paramount blades - they list the same "blade profile" for different rockered versions.  (Paramount's really nervy: they actually use the Gold Seal and Phantom names on their website.)  Paramount at least tried to explain the science, but it lost something in the translation.

I'm really good at geometry, so I'm sure I'll understand the explanation from the various manufacturers' reps, but right now, there's something not clear to me.  The only thing I can think of is that they expand the rocker profile to the larger rocker radius proportionately, but then it's still not "a clone."

[Query]

I'm really good at geometry, so I'm sure I'll understand the explanation from the various manufacturers' reps, but right now, there's something not clear to me.  The only thing I can think of is that they expand the rocker profile to the larger rocker radius proportionately.

What the chart actually says is that Ultima blades are "comparable to" certain other companies' blades. And you can compare them!  

They never said they skate the same.

All Ultima means is that they would love to market their blades to the same people that currently buy the other companies' blades.

[Isk8NYC]

No, I think you're wrong about that.  They wouldn't claim they were "comparable" as in "ooo, pretty, shiny."  There has to be some compatability or similarity between the blades or really knowledgeable people would have called them out on it, especially skaters and coaches that had to deal with a difficult adjustment period.

Maybe I should ask Mr. Edge in Skating magazine.

[AliyahSk8]

Here is a youtube vid that discusses some of the characteristics of Ultima blades and how they compare:

[AliyahSk8]

Here is another video that talks about different blade profiles.  It's pretty informative in general.

[Query]

As a specific example, Ultima Dance and MK Dance blades feel completely different. I guess the Ultima blade allows much quicker transitions - but only if you have the strength and fine position control to use it well, which I do not.

Very much like the difference between a tippy whitewater play boat and a general market recreational boat. Or between a sports car and a big sedan.

Everyone knows that different skaters are happiest with different blades. Each type has its adherents.

If Ultima explained the difference, a specific niche market would flock to it. The way things are, they get some dissatisfied customers, like me.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if blade companies explained all the major differences in the way blades perform?