Do modern figure skating boots allow flexion at the ball of the foot?

[Query]

Do modern figure skating boots allow flexion at the ball of the foot?

When most people jump, or even just walk, their feet flex about the balls of those feet, as the foot rolls forwards. I think it makes it helps create the jump, makes the landing more gentle, and also helps you to walk smoothly.

My 12 year old Klingbeil ice dance boot have fairly rigid insoles, that keep the bottom of the feet quite rigid, so the feet cannot flex this way. It doesn't even have much padding that would allow a slight such flexion as the front of the insole compresses under greater weight.

1. Is my understanding of flexion at the ball of the foot correct?

2. Is this what is called "forefoot flexion"?

The bottom of the outsole and the bottom of the heel must conform to the blade mounting plates, which strongly limits flexion, but there is a lot of material between those and the top of the insole, so it would be possible to allow some flexion. Some hockey boots have a compressible insole that would allow a small amount of flexion, as do some Jackson boots.

3. Do more modern boots, dance or freestyle, of any brand, allow such flexion? If so how - simply by overall insole compressibility, or in a more complicated manner?

4. If the answer to 3 was yes, how confined to the ball is that flexibility?

5. Is such boot flexion be a good idea?

[sampaguita]

Hmmm could be. One sign of flexion is creases in the boot. I have some creases above the ball area in my boots, but they may have been from tightening the laces. I would think that since the boot is attached to the blade, the flexion, if it exists, is minimal.

[Clarice]

Mine definitely do not flex there.  I think that's why we have a rocker on the blade.

[AgnesNitt]

Mine definitely do not flex there.  I think that's why we have a rocker on the blade.

What Clarice said.

[discombobulate]

1. yes
2. probably
3. no

5. no!

[Doubletoe]

They do not flex.  In fact, they cannot, since they are mounted to a solid metal plate right there.  And they are not supposed to, which is why the boot manufacturers specifically say you should never walk in them before mounting your blades.  Marching straight up and down is fine, and going up stairs is fine, but nothing that flexes the sole of the boot.  As others have mentioned, this is why we have a rocker on the blade at the ball of the foot instead.

[icedancer]

Okay, so I thought about this question a LOT this morning when I went to the rink and skated.

I think there is a SLIGHT flexion (very subtle) when pushing off - I do not jump anymore but did some tiny waltz jumps on the wall and I think in that moment just as you land a jump on your picks and then come back down the blade to the rocker for your nice landing there is a slight flexion to the foot at the ball of the foot.

And when you extend the free foot for all other skating (like figures, moves, edges and all of that) there is a LOT of extension through the ball of the foot - there are times when you might lift your toes and so that would require flexion in the ball - it is subtle - not like pushing off when walking or ballroom dancing or something.  Stepping onto an outside edge you supinate the foot and so there is some side-to-side flexion of the ball of the foot there as well - the same when you pronate the foot to step onto an inside edge then the ball of the foot is extended side--to-side - not sure what this would be called actually.

Just my 2 cents.

Interesting discussion.

[dlbritton]

Flexion would be enabled by the ankle pressing into the tongue of the boot allowing the ankle to close. As others have commented I would think the blade would/should prevent any flex of the boot sole.

Related to this, is the stiffness of a boot (such as 49/69/etc for Jackson) referring to fore aft stiffness or side to side stiffness or both?
For ski boots stiffness ratings refer to fore aft movement as there is no side to side motion.

[Query]

I saw one study, by a medical team that may have had no connection to skating, that suggested there would be fewer injuries if figure skating boots were re-designed so that foot could flex at the ball. Maybe they were basing this on findings from Dance and Gymnastics, which are of course different in many ways. E.g., as some have mentioned, blade rocker - and toe pick too.

Many athletic shoes have some initial ball flex built into the shape of the bottom of the shoe. (Which, BTW, is the exact opposite of dance Pointe shoes.) Perhaps feet are less likely to be injured jumping that way?

It is very common for skate boots to include a lot of extra space and material under the front of the foot, between the bottom of the outsole (the bottom surface of the boot) and the top of the insole (the top surface of the foot bed), in order to make the boot look more pointed than the foot actually is, because highly pointed boots are part of the desired "look" of figure skating for many moves. (I think Phil of Harlick told me that.) If that material were compressible, the mentioned flex would be accommodated, no matter how rigid the blades are.

My basic feeling is that the medical study might be right, and foot flexion at the ball might let skaters jump higher and make the landings more gentle on the legs, because it would bring more muscles into play than are possible with a rigid lower foot.

But I can't think of an easy way to test that theory without buying expensive boots built that way. The high cost of good boots definitely slows down people's ability to test new theories.