Weak side and strong side in MITF

[icedancer]

No it isn't.  If you are on your right outside going forward, and then step to your left outside going backwards, you turned CCW. In the 8-step, the direction of travel for the RO is clockwise, but the turn is counter rotational, so it is CCW.    (In other words, it turns towards the direction of the left shoulder, lefty skaters turn* towards their right shoulder)


*I should say spin/jump, I know in theory we should all turn equally, but that theory is hilarious!

You are right.  I hadn't thought it through!  Thank you!

NOW it makes sense why I find the CW portion of the 8-step easier than the CCW !!  And of course there are the five dances with that LFO mohawk and I was pretty used to doing that but the CW is easier.

NOW it makes sense!!

[jjane45]

I hate the CW portion of 8 step mohawk whole-heartedly, regardless the theory  
Maybe not because of the mohawk though...

PS: the poll is interesting. Strong side : weak side is currently 7:2

[FigureSpins]

Actually, "depends" is in the lead.  Most coaches and skaters try to focus on the pattern, not which side to start with.  The more you worry and think about weaknesses, the more they become stumbling blocks.

[FigureSpins]

But they aren't difficult on the other side! So it isn't the FO that is diifcult, just the rotation.   A LFO mohawk is much easier (for me) than an RFI one.

You misunderstand - the natural curve of any forward outside edge is towards the middle of the curve.  The waltz jump follows that rotation.

To do a correct FO Mohawk, you have to check the shoulders strongly to the OUTSIDE of the curve to step against the natural rotation.  Most people who think they're doing these with ease after a few lessons are typically rolling to a different edge on one (or both) edges during the turn; in effect cheating the turn.  It takes a lot of check, lean and ankle strength to master this turn.

Practicing these off-ice is always helpful.  It helps get the scissoring feeling in the upper thighs and the should checks without head bangers.


As for your personal experience, you've told us repeatedly that you don't follow the norms of skating thanks to ballet and injuries.  I don't think it's fair to contradict my statements using your struggles as examples. 

[RosiePosie.iskates]

My coach recommends starting with a strong side. But for instance, in the Preliminary Crossover eight, if I start out counterclockwise (My favorite side) I struggle with the swing roll in the middle. However, if I start clockwise, I can perform the swing roll just fine.  All depends on the pattern for me.

[chowskates]

On the topic of the 8-step mohawk sequence... I *know* that my LFO Mo is way easier for me, and whenever I do the right side, I would be much more cautious.

HOWEVER, when I tested the Silver MIF the judges liked my RFO Mo better - in the comments, it was noted that the LFO Mo was "too steppy".  Argh, that comes form the Fourteen Step, of course! 

[Skittl1321]

As for your personal experience, you've told us repeatedly that you don't follow the norms of skating thanks to ballet and injuries.  I don't think it's fair to contradict my statements using your struggles as examples.

My figure skating struggles are really only related to me being right side dominant, but a CW turner.  This greatly affected my loop jump, and it does make it difficult for me to turn on my non-favored side.

However, my experience with 8-step seems to be VERY typical.  The three other people in my group lesson (2 teens, one 70+) have the exact same problem as me.  They have a strong mohawk on one side (one does flip her edge, like you mentioned) and can barely make the turn on the other side.  However, their inside mohawks have the same issue as me- they'd rather do a "good" outside than a bad inside.  None of us can do our bad inside mohawks well "at speed", though the younger girls have an easier time at attempting it.  The older woman is pretty much the exact same case as I am with sidedness issues.

[Kitten23]

No it isn't.  If you are on your right outside going forward, and then step to your left outside going backwards, you turned CCW. In the 8-step, the direction of travel for the RO is clockwise, but the turn is counter rotational, so it is CCW.    (In other words, it turns towards the direction of the left shoulder, lefty skaters turn* towards their right shoulder)


*I should say spin/jump, I know in theory we should all turn equally, but that theory is hilarious!

Now that I am totally and completely, without a shadow of doubt confused about whether this move is CCW or CW, I can only say, my RFO mohawks are weak, very, very, weak. 

Now I need to lay down.

[alejeather]

It seems to me that mohawk preference wouldn't necessarily be strongly related to rotational preference. That perhaps it would have more to do with which leg is stronger or which hip is more open or which side you have better balance on, or even which side you've practiced more, etc. Those preferences may end up meaning that your stronger mohawk is in the same direction as your rotational preference, or not. And whether that means your blades go in that direction or your upper body, I don't know! And that's why I don't think rotational direction is the biggest factor.

[fsk8r]

I would think an outside mohawk also has a lot more to do with how well you can hold the checked position than to rotational preference. When performing an outside mohawk I find the hardest part is keeping the body facing outside the circle throughout the turn. It doesn't really feel like it's rotating at all.

[icedancer]

I would think an outside mohawk also has a lot more to do with how well you can hold the checked position than to rotational preference. When performing an outside mohawk I find the hardest part is keeping the body facing outside the circle throughout the turn. It doesn't really feel like it's rotating at all.

Well, that is true that the check is opposite the rotation - which is really very slight and only in the feet and lower body. 

But I would have to agree with Skitt and her training buddies that I would much rather do either FO mohawk than my "bad" side FI mohawk at speed.  For me it has to do with my inability (or unwillingness LOL) to rotate my upper body, have my arms and shoulders in the right place for the LFI mohawk.  It is definitely something to work on!  Also need to work on not leaning out of the circle on that turn.

Nice discussion.

As far as on a test I chose to do my "bad" side on the Power 3s for the Bronze MITF first.  My strategy was to get it out of the way (for me) plus I thought it would be better to end with the "good" side hoping that the judges would forget about the "bad" side and then just be so pleased with the good side that I would pass the move.  It almost backfired on me because I think the judges were so busy making comments on my "bad" side that they most likely didn't reallysee the good side LOL - I didn't pass that move by ANY judge but pulled up with two judges on my BO edge move (the one that is a back cross-over to BO edge).

That is why I checked "it depends" on my vote.

Best not to try to outwit the judging panel!!

[jjane45]

Statistically, would first impression count more or last impression?

[Skittl1321]

Statistically, would first impression count more or last impression?

This is why my coach always said to do what was the "normal" way about it.  Because there are pros and cons both ways.  It seems like a weak last impression would be left in their minds, but a weak first impression, they dismiss your ability to do well.  If you do the good side first, they might be writing their comments while you do the bad side, and not see tiny problems.

I can't remember if I posted this earlier in the thread, but my first coach had a judge claim the skater did the same side twice (I think on the forward outside-back inside/ forward inside-back outside 3s), because she did the less common side first.  There was a parent videoing the test, who tried to show the judge that she did both sets, but the skater had to reskate the test, because once the judge "saw" she was repeating the same side, she had stopped watching.  The skater was flustered, and did not pass on the second go round.

[JSM]

I normally just follow the pattern as written - as a CW skater this frequently ends up weak side first, but not always.  I made an exception for the novice back inside twizzle pattern.  It was my weakest pattern by far, and coming around the corner from the outside twizzles to start the insides ccw flustered me so badly my coach told me to start on my strong side instead.

I did pass the test (more in spite of the twizzles than because of them, haha).

[Icicle]

It my opinion. it's the first impression that counts. Just like icedancer2, I started with my bad side of the three-turn bronze pattern, not because I was less confident about it, just because my coach had told me so. Sure enough, the judge picked on every weakness on that side of the pattern completely ignoring my good side, which was much better.

[icedancer]

And other thing: as you go up the scale of tests you really do have to do it equally on both sides.  You can't have one "good side" and the other "bad side" that is obvious to the judges.  One really good side does not cancel out one really bad side.  If the sides are that different then the move doesn't pass no matter how great the "good" side is.

I'm just sayin'...

[jjane45]

This is why my coach always said to do what was the "normal" way about it.  Because there are pros and cons both ways.  It seems like a weak last impression would be left in their minds, but a weak first impression, they dismiss your ability to do well.  If you do the good side first, they might be writing their comments while you do the bad side, and not see tiny problems.

LOL. I've always wondered how do judges find time to write down all the comments. Was not paying too much attention in my limited exposure to test sessions. Are they accustomed to writing on test papers without taking their eyes off the skater?

[SkateToronto]

It is only usually skaters that are beginners that have a weak side and a strong side until their muscles are worked in for skating.

[Skittl1321]

It is only usually skaters that are beginners that have a weak side and a strong side until their muscles are worked in for skating.

http://www.skatetoronto.com

Welcome to the forum!


I agree with your statement for kids, most eventually become fairly even.  For adults, I've seen adults with intermediate level tests still struggle with a bad side.  And for lower level adults who started skating late in life, the bad side sometimes never goes away.

[JSM]

Weak and strong are relative terms, of course.  I'll bet even elite skaters have to practice some moves more in one direction than the other.  They are just skating at a much higher standard than most!

We just see the final, polished product (and hopefully, the judges see our final products during a test session!)

[icedancer]

I'm sure even elite skaters have their weak and strong sides BUT whether this is discernible visually is another story.  Definitely as skaters go up the ladder on their moves tests having an obvious weak side will definitely cause a move to not pass.  They have to appear equal in the eyes of the judges.