Suggestions for getting used to the Ice Fly please

[Christy]

It's my second day trying to get used to my new skates (Ice Fly with Matrix Elite blade). I love the new blade but I'm finding the boots a bit of a challenge. I have intense pain across the entire soles of both feet which I think are probably caused by the thinner soles and higher heels.    I just wondered if this was normal, and if anyone had any suggestions to help the transition.
I think the fact that I have spent the entire summer in sneakers probably hasn't helped - maybe I need to do some exercises to stretch my foot muscles?
The other problem I have is despite lacing them according to the Edea website instructions I find that my left skate feels extremely wobbly. I know at first they will feel a bit different, but the left boot feels so much worse than the right (left foot is smaller if that could be a contributing factor) - I feel like there is zero support at all and the skate just seems to do it's own thing. I know the boot isn't warped or anything as it was checked when I bought it, but when the blade was put on it did feel like I was falling to the inside so the blade was moved a bit. I've also swapped the Edea insoles for superfeet, however I've never needed anything other than the standard Jackson insoles in previous skates.

I'm feeling a bit disillusioned at the moment - I'm not the best skater but at the moment just skating a single circuit takes three times as long as it used to and anything more feels like a distant memory.

[nicklaszlo]

Sounds like your circulation is cut off.

[Christy]

Sounds like your circulation is cut off.

I was wondering about that, but the boot is feels quite loose, especially the left one. Also, today the pain did start to subside after around 30 minutes (but that may have been the painkillers!).

[axelwylie]

I am in a similar situation. I have been in Jackson Competitor boots for 9 years and just switched to Ice Fly boots on Monday. So I am on day 4 of the boots. I also felt that the boots felt a bit loose and have gotten some pain in my arches. At times my feet feel numb.

Other skaters at my rink (who also have Ice Fly boots) said that this is normal and part of the break-in period. They said the numbness and arch pain goes away after about a week or so.

Hope that helps!

[axelwylie]

I wanted to add that I had my blades moved since I had extreme arch pain after I had my blades mounted. The pain is better but still appears after 15 minutes or so and then goes away.

My feet definitely felt wobbly but it has gotten better after a few days. It was just getting used to the new boot. After 2 days I was able to land my axels again.

[Neverdull44]

I'll have to chime in.  I've had my share of highs and lows breaking in Edeas this past month.  I have Matrix Elite blades too.  Love my blades!

I bought Ice Flies in early September.   They felt fine in the shop when the fitter widened them and mounted my blades.   He's one of the best fitters in the country . . . .

But when I got on the ice . . .  I had extreme pain in the arches, my feet, and cramping.    This lasted until I widened the skates in the ball of my foot.  Once I got them wider, then my right foot was "ok."  But, my left foot hurt a tad.  About the same time that I got a better fit, I ended up stepping on my foot incorrectly off-ice and likely putting a stress fracture on my navicular bone in my left foot.   I didn't realize I'd broken a bone.  It started to grow a bone hump on the inside arch of this foot.   And, I still got some cramping in my arches about 10 minutes into skating.

Because now I had this growing bone hump and cramping, I went to the podiatrist last Tuesday.  He referred me to a specialty podiatrist who fitted me and my boots for figure skating orthotics last Thursday.   I am extremely pronated and have flat, duck-like feet.  I've have alot of foot issues and wear orthotics for my regular shoes.  I've had ankle tendon surgery, plantar issues, bone bumps  . . .even my old Harlicks hurt a little. (but not like the Edeas).  The doctor made me custom orthotics for my Edeas.   They came on Tuesday.   Now, I am in heaven.

The doctor said that my foot cramping was likely lactic acid building up because my foot muscles were working way overtime trying to compensate in the new boot.   It was so bad before I widened the skates, that I laid on the benches, almost in tears, with my feet, boots on, sticking up in the air.   They hurt too much for me to put them down on the floor to untie my skates.

As for the loose feeling in the ankle, yes that's how they feel.  Now, after a month, I am used to it.   I have always worn an achilles bunga pad on my one foot due to a Bauer bump on the back of my heel.  That helps to tighten it up some.  I try to get the laces as tight as I can, but it's hard because of the heavily padded tongue.   I tend to retie them, after walking around.   I find the top lace wants to get a little too loose.   But, I also retightened my Harlicks a few minutes into skating.   Now, I have alot of bend which is nice.   And, there is alot of support on each side.  When I land a jump, i am definitely not going to topple over in these boots.  When I do a sit spin, it's easy to bend forward.  Also easy to bend my knees & ankle forward to get nice extension.    But, I'd also like to point out that my orthotics make the blade control also happen because every square millimeter of the bottom of my foot is in control of the bottom of the boot through the orthotic.

I didn't try those yellow feet inserts.  Those are alot cheaper then custom orthotics.  Because I wear such hard orthotics for my regular shoes to bolster up my arch and keep my plantar tendon from ripping, I went straight to custom.

Edeas are not the wonderful skate for everyone.  Even my coach was thinking, "She should have went with the lighter Harlicks."  I wonder that too.  But, this higher heel is supposed to be better on my plantar.   I think, for me, as an adult skater, Edeas are harder to get used to.  They are shorter, which is not how the skates were in the 1970s.  They bend forward easily, which reminds me of a broken down skate from the 1970s that flopped over.  But, the lateral movement is 110% supported.   

     September was a month of adversity.  October is, finally, looking up. 

[TropicalSk8ter]

But, I'd also like to point out that my orthotics make the blade control also happen because every square millimeter of the bottom of my foot is in control of the bottom of the boot through the orthotic.

I think I'll need to get orthotics or something to put in the sole because I too feel that my right foot in the boot moves and doesn't give me complete boot control!

[amy1984]

Not on ice flys but breaking in skates.  I'd say that whenever the bottoms of my feet hurt, the culprit is almost always that I've laced too tight across the instep.  You might feel as if the boot is loose - and maybe it is, up top - but I'd check and see if it helps to loosen all the way down to the toes, tighten minimally across your arch, and then a bit tighter over the ankle and up to the top.  Just my 2 cents.

[Christy]

Well third time out and I started out with the laces very loose all the way down to the toes. After about 5 minutes the pain started in the soles of both feet, but I kept telling myself it wasn't quite as bad as previously   I took a couple of breaks and after about 15 minutes the pain started to subside. I then tightened the laces a little (as the boots felt incredibly loose and wobbly) and no pain   
So I really do think in my case the pain is related to the different position of the foot because of the higher heels, thinner soles, and different insoles. Plus the day before my first outing in the new skates I wore 'proper' shoes for the first time in 6 months (I spent the Summer in sneakers). I think I may try the Edea insoles in a few days time, just to see if the Superfeet are actually making any difference.

[Neverdull44]

The black superfeet have a harder instep, more like my orthotics.

[Query]

How awful!

My web page has some info about trying to refit boots. I'm not an expert, but I have asked questions of a lot of experts, and modified my own boots - which, BTW, were not Edeas. Sounds a lot like the shape or slant of the bottom of the boot does not match the shape and slant of the bottom of your feet, something easily handled by adding tape and/or adhesive foam under the insoles in places you need support. A custom orthotic is pretty much the same thing as adding a few cents worth of tape. It will only take you a few minutes to do it yourself. Whereas if you get it done by someone medical, who isn't familiar with the specific needs of skaters, they often do it badly, because they don't realize that when you are statically balanced on a blade, the surface creates no torque on your feet, which is quite different from normal shoes.  Also, they may try to prevent your ankle from doing the motions some types of figure skating require.

BTW, non-custom orthotics often don't correct the needs of your particular feet. Superfeet and other heat molded insoles are a compromise between custom and non-custom orthotics that works for some people, but not others.

The biggest thing a really high end fully custom orthotic made for your feet by a really good expert can do that is hard (though not impossible) to do with tape is to customize exactly how squishy the insole is, sometimes differently in different spots. I'm assuming your problem doesn't just occur in jump landings, so that's probably not an issue.

If you bought from the right fitter (who knows how to use heat guns - e.g., David Rippon[?]), the heat moldability of Edeas sounds like a great thing (though David said Edeas wouldn't work with my feet), but, last I checked, it wasn't possible to heat mold the Edea footbed itself, so this is a problem that couldn't fix.

On the other hand, it is also possible that the boot is merely too thin somewhere, and is squeezing your foot in such a way that it is forcing your arch up higher than your feet are comfortable or safe, and the boots need to be heat molded to you. (If the footbed itself is too thin for your foot that can't be fixed.) In fact, if the boots feel too loose on top, your boots may not have been heat molded right.

(Don't let someone heat mold your Edea boots with an oven - they would probably melt into a puddle of goo. Strategic spot heat molding is all they can take.)

It is also possible your blade position is not offset right for your feet, if you feel like you are falling to one side, and are using your muscles to compensate. That would hurt after your muscles got tired, and is easily fixed.

Anyway, good luck. Tell us how whatever you try works out.

[Christy]

So, fourth outing for the skates today and I went through a fairly long period which could be described more as discomfort than pain 
I'm still using the superfeet insoles and have the laces very loose - longer term I need them to be a bit tighter as my heel is lifting slightly, but they're fine for stroking. I think I'll need to do some moulding of one boot because my instep is really high (result of a broken foot)  just where I need the laces tight at the ankle. I may also need to get the blade moved as that foot does feel much wobblier than the other.

When you say tape, is there a specific type you would recommend? I'm very reluctant to try custom orthotics - several years ago I had some made by Strolz for my ski boots and they caused severe pain in my Achilles after a few minutes. Fortunately it was temporary and once I went back to the originals I was fine.

[Neverdull44]

I had the discomfort too.   But, the orthotics fixed all of that. 

My insurance company covers a pair of orthotics a year.   I landed several flip-loop jumps, loop-loop jumps, and salchow-loop jumps today with no problem.   The ultimate is the feeling of a high waltz jump landing. It flows with no pain.   If you go the orthotic route, the doctor that specializes in skaters is going to be your best bet.  Mine also did gymnasts, because they have to have super great feet.  They wear them outside the gym, to retrain their muscles to give them stability on landing.

[Christy]

I had the discomfort too.   But, the orthotics fixed all of that. 

My insurance company covers a pair of orthotics a year.   I landed several flip-loop jumps, loop-loop jumps, and salchow-loop jumps today with no problem.   The ultimate is the feeling of a high waltz jump landing. It flows with no pain.   If you go the orthotic route, the doctor that specializes in skaters is going to be your best bet.  Mine also did gymnasts, because they have to have super great feet.  They wear them outside the gym, to retrain their muscles to give them stability on landing.

Yay!!!
I may have to investigate what is covered by the insurance company - it's all still rather new to me....  Currently I'm focusing on some of the foot exercises the chiropractor gave me to build the muscles back up.

[Christy]

It's over a week since I started to wear my new skates and things do seem to be improving. I'm now at the stage where I get about 10 minutes of major discomfort in the soles of my feet around 10 minutes into a session, then things settle down    I think I need to make a few changes to the insoles and now need to get used to the different lacing plus the shorter blade, but things are looking positive.

[Query]

When you say tape, is there a specific type you would recommend?

Any tape will do if you are desperate. Even a paper towel or toilet paper will sort of do. I use cotton athletic tape, also called "coach tape". Duct tape works  , but is more temporary, because it changes its characteristics with wear.

I play with putting tape different places on the boot, to create roughly equal pressure on all parts of the bottom of my feet, without using much muscle to achieve it, regardless of which part of my blade is in contact with the ice.

Left-right balance can also be done by offsetting your blade mount left or right - the most common way for skate technicians to compensate for balance. Especially if you run out of space inside the boot - a really tight fit will make your foot cold. You can even combine tape, foam (e.g., Moleskin) and mounting offset.

[severina]

I had pain with both the ice fly and concerto but I am extremely flat footed and pronate.  I use the yellow superfeet inserts and they are heavenly.  I should have put them in a long time ago! 

I also don't tie the instep very tight as edea recommends that part should be tied soft.  It makes a huge difference if I tie them too tight and then I get crampy arches.

[Neverdull44]

What I figured out with my Edeas, is that they don't "bend or flex or break in" like a leather boot.  They are rock solid, unless you get a hair dryer.   The only thing that's going to break is your foot, until you get the Edeas right.

Three separate podiatrists told me that my 10 minute arch cramping is due to my arch not being supported and lactic acid building up as my foot muscles work overtime.   Try the Yellowfeet and, more importantly, the black yellow feet.   The black ones have the hardest arch support.  Take out the Edea liner.  It just pops out.   Trim the black support. 

If that doesn't work, go see a podiatrist.  Your insurance may cover the orthotics.   My podiatrist explained my foot troubles like this.  Any "Dr. Scholl" type orthotic that he can push down with his hand, my body will crush under my foot.   Crushed support is no support.   That's why gel inserts didn't work for me.   My custom orthotics under my arch are as hard as a rock or sea shell.  Tissue paper or gel would absolutely not work for me.   Perhaps building up with tape would work, because tape isn't crushable.  But, that would be a huge wad and hard to get placed right.  And, if it wasn't placed correctly, then I'm setting other areas of my foot up for troubles.

[Casey]

I used superfeet when I had Graf Edmonton Special boots, which came with flat insoles. They didn't fix everything about the boots, but they made them a lot better. Bungs pads (heel and ankle sleeves? were also a savior.  I highly recommend both if you have boot issues!

I have since discovered that these sorts of problems simply don't exist in quality custom boots, which include custom insoles and padding shaped for your feet. They aren't cheap, but neither are Ice Flys or Edmonton Specials or other high-end stock size boots. Your feet will be much happier without the need of replacement insoles, tape, pads, or anything else. Of course you have to make what you have work as best as you can, but I really encourage ordering customs for your next set. The difference that I experienced is phenomenal.

[severina]

What I figured out with my Edeas, is that they don't "bend or flex or break in" like a leather boot.  They are rock solid, unless you get a hair dryer.   The only thing that's going to break is your foot, until you get the Edeas right.

Three separate podiatrists told me that my 10 minute arch cramping is due to my arch not being supported and lactic acid building up as my foot muscles work overtime.   Try the Yellowfeet and, more importantly, the black yellow feet.   The black ones have the hardest arch support.  Take out the Edea liner.  It just pops out.   Trim the black support. 

If that doesn't work, go see a podiatrist.  Your insurance may cover the orthotics.   My podiatrist explained my foot troubles like this.  Any "Dr. Scholl" type orthotic that he can push down with his hand, my body will crush under my foot.   Crushed support is no support.   That's why gel inserts didn't work for me.   My custom orthotics under my arch are as hard as a rock or sea shell.  Tissue paper or gel would absolutely not work for me.   Perhaps building up with tape would work, because tape isn't crushable.  But, that would be a huge wad and hard to get placed right.  And, if it wasn't placed correctly, then I'm setting other areas of my foot up for troubles.

I have the superfeet yellow in my edeas right now and I use superfeet blacks in my regular shoes.  Do you mean that the blacks have better arch support???  I have EXTREMELY flat feet (pronate badly) and wondering if the blacks would be even better than the yellows.... I thought the yellows would give me higher support.  Let me know!  I will switch those bad boys out and try the black ones!

[severina]

On getting customs, I was in harlick customs for 15+ years and when I came back as an adult I threw out my customs and I am much happier in my edeas.  I even tried harlick customs for a year (new ones with new measurements) and they were still not as good as the edeas.  I don't have any boot problems, I have arch problems.  I don't have pain anymore since using the superfeet but I am now wondering if the superfeet black would be even better since i'm so flat.

[Casey]

On getting customs, I was in harlick customs for 15+ years and when I came back as an adult I threw out my customs and I am much happier in my edeas.  I even tried harlick customs for a year (new ones with new measurements) and they were still not as good as the edeas.  I don't have any boot problems, I have arch problems.  I don't have pain anymore since using the superfeet but I am now wondering if the superfeet black would be even better since i'm so flat.

I can't speak for Harlick but Klingbeil builds arch support to match your feet and compensate for pronation (my feet are quite pronated and this was one of the reasons I ordered customs. I figured Harlick and SP Teri would do the same...

[Christy]

Today was my twelfth session, so probably around 8-10 hours of skating (I spent a lot of time during the earlier sessions retying etc.) and for the first time I had no pain in the soles of my feet 

I also discovered that my insurance will cover most of the cost of orthotics so have an appointment with the podiatrist on Monday. The superfeet seem to be helping but I can tell that my smaller foot isn't sitting quite right over the arch support so think custom orthotics may be better.