The inexpert sharpener/boot technician problem

[Query]

I'm interested here in the basics that most figure skaters and hockey players expect pro shops to provide: solid blade mounting, boot sole waterproofing, blade straightness, desired hollow and rocker profiles, desired degree of sharpness, even edges, control of nicks, scratches, flat spots and bumps, toe pick tooth trimming, weight centering, shims, snug fit, tongue centering, support, and comfort.

I believe most skate shop employees and interested individuals skaters could learn to do these things if they wanted to and were encouraged to, and instructions were readily available.

(This post isn't about the fancy refinements available from the leading experts.)

(1) Do you believe that most sharpeners and boot technicians fail to meet these basic elements well?

(2) If so, what contributes most?
(a) High employee turnover and lack of employee interest, because employees aren't paid enough.
(b) Lack of available education.
(c) The available literature is too limited.
(d) The available literature is too technical.
(e) Insufficient market size in any geographic area for good training schools to be organized.
(f) Not enough customers would pay extra for better employee training and more careful work.
(g) It is more profitable for skate shops to things things fast than to do them well.
(h) Shop managers don't recognize the problem.
(i) I'm wrong: only an elite few could master the skills.
(i) Don't know, just wish all shops would get it right.
(j) Other.

(3) What do you pay for skate sharpening?

(4) Do you regularly use an expensive or inconvenient pro shop, because the most convenient shop doesn't meet your needs?

(5) Did I leave out anything important?

[jjane45]

Survey!!

(1) Do you believe that most sharpeners and boot technicians fail to meet these basic elements well?
I'd like to think pro shops targeted at figure skaters do decent jobs overall but technicians are not trained equal. I normally cannot tell the subtleties of sharpening quality and hence stick with our area's reputable sharpeners to make sure. Some technicians or coaches offer overnight sharpening at home to save skaters travel time. They are probably doing a fine job to get return customers.
(Trusting figure skates with rink hockey pro shop was my mistake, so that does not count)

(2) If so, what contributes most?
(g) Pressured for time, maybe.

(3) What do you pay for skate sharpening?
$15 (used to be $8 when I started a couple years ago, combination of price hike and better blades I suppose)

(4) Do you regularly use an expensive or inconvenient pro shop, because the most convenient shop doesn't meet your needs?
I am lucky to have Rainbo within reasonable driving distance. Some people regularly spend hours on road for boot fitting or sharpening at this pro shop.

[hopskipjump]

With dd's old blades I would just use the pro shop at the rink. But when I went to getting more expensive blades, I am only bringing them back to the skate store for sharpening.

I paid $8 for stock blades (both places).

I pay $10 at the skate shop for the nicer blades but I have to also drive 30 minutes each way.

I think the skate shop does a better job - they don't take as much off. 

[Skittl1321]

What is this "pro shop" you speak off?
We have a few coaches in the area who sharpen blades, or the counter guys at the rink.  One of the best girls at the rink (high doubles, but she doesn't compete) has her blades done by the counter guys, but they did mine once and I thought it was HORRIBLE.

(1) Do you believe that most sharpeners and boot technicians fail to meet these basic elements well?
I think they all do the best they can, but I've had bad experiences with 3/4 sharpeners I've tried.  But it wasn't every sharpening that was bad, just one out of a few, that made me change.

(2) If so, what contributes most?
I don't think any of your factors really work, because these aren't shops. I'm guessing they just weren't paying attention to detail.

(3) What do you pay for skate sharpening?
$15.  (I think one coach charges $12)

(4) Do you regularly use an expensive or inconvenient pro shop, because the most convenient shop doesn't meet your needs?
Um, not a pro shop, but I drive them to a coach who is 30 miles away instead of handing them to a coach at my rink (though he had to keep them overnight, so that wasn't too convienent either).  It's more of a coach politics thing though.  The local coach did them when I took my lessons from him.  My current sharpener is not affiliated with my rink.

(5) Did I leave out anything important?
Some of us are lucky to even have an option other than counter guys.  If these coaches hadn't bought sharpening machines, we'd have nothing in the area.

[JHarer]

(1) Do you believe that most sharpeners and boot technicians fail to meet these basic elements
Yes and no, I think most figure skate pro's do a fine job, must most rinks are staffed with hockey technicians and they do not meet a figure skaters needs.
(2) If so, what contributes most?
It's probably a little of all of the listed reasons and then some.
(a) High employee turnover and lack of employee interest, because employees aren't paid enough.
(b) Lack of available education.
(c) The available literature is too limited.
(d) The available literature is too technical.
(e) Insufficient market size in any geographic area for good training schools to be organized.
(f) Not enough customers would pay extra for better employee training and more careful work.
(g) It is more profitable for skate shops to things things fast than to do them well.
(h) Shop managers don't recognize the problem.
(i) I'm wrong: only an elite few could master the skills.
(i) Don't know, just wish all shops would get it right.
(j) Other.

(3) What do you pay for skate sharpening?
$20.95

(4) Do you regularly use an expensive or inconvenient pro shop, because the most convenient shop doesn't meet your needs?
Yes, I drive an hour to my sharpener and he is very pricey. But he is the only person I'd trust with my blades.

(5) Did I leave out anything important?
No?

[Skate@Delaware]

(1) Do you believe that most sharpeners and boot technicians fail to meet these basic elements well?
(2) If so, what contributes most?
(a) High employee turnover and lack of employee interest, because employees aren't paid enough.
(b) Lack of available education
(c) The available literature is too limited.
(d) The available literature is too technical.
(e) Insufficient market size in any geographic area for good training schools to be organized.
(f) Not enough customers would pay extra for better employee training and more careful work.
(g) It is more profitable for skate shops to things things fast than to do them well.
(h) Shop managers don't recognize the problem.
(i) I'm wrong: only an elite few could master the skills.
(i) Don't know, just wish all shops would get it right.
(j) Other.
(3) What do you pay for skate sharpening?
(4) Do you regularly use an expensive or inconvenient pro shop, because the most convenient shop doesn't meet your needs?
(5) Did I leave out anything important?

Depends whether you are talking about the teenager that sharpens skates or the experienced person that does. Just because someone has been sharpening skates (figure skating or hockey) for years doesn't make them an expert. Of the few boot technicians I've encountered, I feel they have adequately met my sharpening & boot fixing needs. I have a sharpening service in my rink, however, I don't let them sharpen my skates.  When I asked them about side honing and got the blank stare, that did it for me. I take my skates to an experienced technician for sharpening.

I pay $18 for sharpening, and leave the change with the man that takes them for me (for his time & effort). He takes them upstate (1.5 hours away) and the technician knows what he is doing. It is slightly inconvenient (I couldn't do this if I skated every day) but I'd rather not take a chance with my expensive blades.

[sarahspins]

(1) Yes, they do fail on most levels.

(2) Mostly I think it has to do with the fact that most rink and "pro shop" employees just DON'T CARE!  It's just a job for most of them, not something they are genuinely passionate about.  The only sharpeners I've really trusted haven't worked through a rink or shop - one is a coach's husband (which is who I use now) and the other was a skater himself (and recently moved away) so they both had an interest in doing a good job and knowing/understanding what they were doing.  It wasn't simply about a paycheck.  Yes they charge to sharpen skates but that isn't their "day job"

(3) $15 for mine, $7 for my kids.

(4) I don't use a shop for my skates, I use an individual.  I let the kid's skates get sharpened at the rink because they all skate on cheap blades and none of the kids are at a level where it's really critical that they be sharpened perfectly (and their blades are all really cheap).  The rink has yet to do anything I'd rate as iffy to the blades though, I've always gotten them back and they look great - and I do check to make sure they didn't mess them up.  I still wouldn't trust them with my $500 blades though

[AgnesNitt]

(1) Do you believe that most sharpeners and boot technicians fail to meet these basic elements well?
      I've only had one sharpener and he's the king of sharpeners. So I can't answer.

(3) What do you pay for skate sharpening?
$15 for regular blades $25 for parabolics
(4) Do you regularly use an expensive or inconvenient pro shop, because the most convenient shop doesn't meet your needs?
  I would never let a stranger touch my skates. I plan my sharpenings and don't get behind.
(5) Did I leave out anything important?
   I'd like to get a machine and learn to sharpen skates myself, but I don't think there's a market for it where I live. I have a friend who bought a second hand machine and sharpens his own and his wife's skates. He plans to sharpen when he retires. He's seventy.

[Query]

Yes and no, I think most figure skate pro's do a fine job.

I don't think there are many pro technicians who specialize in figure skates.

Do you mean coaches?

Agnes, there is a big barrier to entry. But just to learn, Ashburn sometimes needs new employees.

[Sk8tmum]

1) Do you believe that most sharpeners and boot technicians fail to meet these basic elements well?
Yes.

(2) If so, what contributes most?

(a) High employee turnover and lack of employee interest, because employees aren't paid enough.
(b) Lack of available education.
(c) The available literature is too limited.
(d) The available literature is too technical.
(e) Insufficient market size in any geographic area for good training schools to be organized.
(f) Not enough customers would pay extra for better employee training and more careful work.
(g) It is more profitable for skate shops to things things fast than to do them well.

(3) What do you pay for skate sharpening?
$14 CDN
(4) Do you regularly use an expensive or inconvenient pro shop, because the most convenient shop doesn't meet your needs?
Drive significant distance because the only local sharpener isn't good enough.

(5) Did I leave out anything important?
Even for "beginner" skaters the local pro shop can be a disaster; several LTS kids have had the entire rocker taken off of their basic skates by the arena hockey guy, plus, the "removal of the lower pick".  The, the frustration ensues as they can't turn or learn the basic skills. This is not limited to figure skates either, they also do a lousy job on hockey skates, and it seems that there is an equivalent to the "underground network of info on figure skate sharpeners" among most of the high level hockey players in the region.

Our sharpener is a professional who does nothing but figure skates, but, there is sufficient demand due to the quantity and quality of skaters within a drive-able distance.

[retired]

The best sharpener locally is the housewife who got an government grant when her factory job disappeared and invested $10,000 in a Blademaster and training.  She's never skated.    $12.    It's all she does.


The best sharpener is a guy I've driven 150 miles for, because he is consistent.  Absolutely consistent every time. It's worth the drive in time of crisis.  $12 and every 10th one is free.

We have a number of coaches who think they're sharpeners and have bought portable machines.  Sharpening for students is a hugely profitable cash under the table venture.       However, some of them are extremely terrible sharpeners because they don't do it often enough.    $15


For hockey or figure, sharpeners have to be doing skates regularly.  Volume is crucial, but not so much that they rush jobs, or don't change the stone often enough.   I've had hockey skates wrecked about as many times as figure skates.

Now, finding someone who is experience in blade mounting, boot shimming and all of that voodoo, that's a tough one.   There's only two I'd use.    It's understanding the language that a skater uses.  

Ooops, so to answer the questions by number:

1.  No, we have a level of professionalism in our area and the $4. "done by the rink guy" sharpens have disappeared
2. g, sort of, because the shops with high volume know their job well but high volume can mean rushed jobs too.
3.  $8-$15. 
4. I have to drive for all of them.  There is a coach in my town that has taken up a machine.  I'm not willing to try.
5.  The underground network isn't always accurate but people follow it like lemmings.   

[Query]

For what it is worth, I just started sharpening worn out skates by machine. It's hard! A lot harder than by hand. It might take 20 - 40 hours of serious practice and a few ruined old blades to learn get it right.

It makes one appreciate the skill that goes into doing it right.