Pro-Filer from Edge Specialties

[Query]

Thanks! Wow. I hadn't realized a .00001 inch precision was possible in a mechanical instrument. Defintiely a couple cuts above what I find at Harbour Freight. Though odd that it jumped .00004 inch units in your tests.

I assume you take special precautions to keep water from dripping down the sides of the blade and getting underneath the mounting plates. Is that correct?

I seal the mount-to-boot interface, and the outsoles in general, with Sno-Seal. (I really should try Silicone.) After all, skating makes blades and the bottom of boots wet too.

And if I don't skate immediately afterwards, I dry off the blades, mounting screws and boots after sharpening, just as I would after skating.

But you make me wonder - should I wax or otherwise seal the tops of the mounting screws too? Because even good quality stainless steel screws eventually rust. So I will in the future.

I still haven't tried your idea of using a knife "steel" instead of the Pro-Filer in between sharpenings, to further increase blade lifetime.

It would be so cool to have a good enough microscope to see what actually happens during sharpening. The good ones are too expensive just for curiosity. I guess a good quality optical comparator with a length scale, or maybe an inspection microscope, could show me a lot more than the cheap microscopes I bought. If I put identifiable reference marks near the edge before sharpening, it might be a much better way of seeing what was going on than using a micrometer.

Of course, I would need a lot fancier equipment to measure the effects of sharpening, e.g., drag, noise, skid-resistance, and predictability, while moving on the ice.

But this is way off-topic. Loops probably just wants to sharpen well - she doesn't need to know edge nanostructure, and she is probably a good enough skater to be able to feel the effects of good vs poor sharpening, without the need for objective measurement.

[Loops]

But this is way off-topic. Loops probably just wants to sharpen well - she doesn't need to know edge nanostructure,......

Haha this is true, but you guys are clearly having so much fun discussing it, that it's amusing.  The only thing I can discuss structurally at a micro level (not even nano) is the anatomy of flower ovaries and fruits. Clearly not a subject for this forum!

In terms of tape, I don't actually mind taping the blades, just highly irritated that the tool can't glide over it AND rips it off.  Next time I try sharpening, I'll try using good old scotch.  Maybe lubricating myself with the other kind of scotch during the process.  Might make the tape thing less frustrating if the tape scotch rips off like the masking tape.  In terms of blade lubrication, I understand physics enough to recognize that water will serve my purposes just fine, and very well may give that a go next time.

It's not saying much, but I DO trust myself FAR more than the rink sharpeners.  In general, they don't even know what grind they're giving people.  There's a chart on the wall showing what mark on the pin (sorry, don't know the anatomy of a blademaster) they need to use for certain levels.  I ask for a 3/8"grind, and I may as well be speaking ancient hebrew.  Given that my last sharpening at the rink was was so deep it was off the scales, causing my US skate tech to GIVE me an ROH gauge, it'll take a super desperate situation for me to even think about trusting them again.  I think I'm glad I don't know what they did to the profile of those blades.  My skate tech in the US is a master, and I am totally and utterly spoiled by him.

If this pro-filer thing can keep my edges as sharp as I like them without me destroying them, I'm already better off.  I can even learn to live with the scratches produced by the tools...... if I have to.  I won't go down without a fight though!

Thanks for y'alls input.  I'll check back in next time I sharpen.  Until then, have at the nanostructure of blade edges.  These forums are a place to have fun.

[FigureSpins]

My skate sharpener don't come 'round these parts no more, so this summer I followed in your skate steps and bought a 3/8" pro-filer.  It was a little pricey, but I've now broken even since sharpenings cost $25-30 and I've used it 3 times since purchasing. 

The kit is really nice - the bag holds everything and it saved me the trouble of finding the "perfect bag."  (I would have searched high and low while spending way too much time and money on the thing.)  I keep the kit in the garage on our pegboard because I prop the boot over the vice on our workbench to do the sharpenings.

I added an old, clean chamois cloth, which I use to wipe off the oil/grit after sharpenings.  To my mind, it protects my hands and fingers more than the towel that came with the kit.

Thanks for the Scotch tape tip - it does work better than the masking tape.  If I take it off carefully after sharpening the first blade, I can reuse part of it on the second one.

My kit has two stones, but no honing oil.  I substituted some light sewing machine oil and it seems to work fine.  (I found a real Singer Sewing Machine store on the Outer Banks and just HAD to buy something to show my support.)

I've been cleaning the stones after use with a small steel brush made for paint removal.  Doesn't seem to harm the surface, just brushes away the whatever-bill-calls-it from inside.  I turn and brush a few times.

I used to side-stone my blades when I was desperate for a sharpening, but this is better.  It sharpens that evil little space behind the toepick better, imo.  I hate having that flat spot on the blade because I demonstrate things at slow speed and the dullness makes me slip sideways.

Thanks for all the info and advice, everyone!

[Bill_S]

No oil or cutting fluid came with your kit?

That's too bad. I wouldn't be surprised if shipping regulations made it impractical.

[FigureSpins]

How much oil should I use and when?  (Just to make sure I'm doing it right.)

[Bill_S]

How much oil should I use and when?  (Just to make sure I'm doing it right.)

I use one drop applied directly to the stone between each pass (about a dozen strokes per pass).  I do wipe the oil from the blade between each pass using paper towels.

This is the bottle of oil that came with several of my Pro-Filer sets. I have never completely emptied one, but if I did, I'd reach for Norton Sharpening Stone Oil...

https://www.amazon.com/Norton-Abrasives-07660787940-Sharpening-Stone/dp/B000I1AVDW/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=norton+sharpening+oil&qid=1569430596&sr=8-5





I do not oil the sides. I don't need to.

[tstop4me]

My skate sharpener don't come 'round these parts no more, so this summer I followed in your skate steps and bought a 3/8" pro-filer.  It
My kit has two stones, but no honing oil.  I substituted some light sewing machine oil and it seems to work fine.  (I found a real Singer Sewing Machine store on the Outer Banks and just HAD to buy something to show my support.)

Honing oil is still listed as a component of the kit.  I would email them and let them know that your kit was missing the item.

[tstop4me]

This is the bottle of oil that came with several of my Pro-Filer sets. I have never completely emptied one, but if I did, I'd reach for Norton Sharpening Stone Oil...

https://www.amazon.com/Norton-Abrasives-07660787940-Sharpening-Stone/dp/B000I1AVDW/ref=sr_1_5?keywords=norton+sharpening+oil&qid=1569430596&sr=8-5

The honing oil supplied with the kit has a lighter body and different feel than the Norton oil.  The Norton oil is just USP grade mineral oil.  You can get almost the same thing, a lot cheaper and a lot easier to find, by buying USP grade mineral oil at your supermarket, drugstore, or discount store (health & beauty aisles).  The Norton oil is slightly less viscous, but that's not critical for this purpose.

[Loops]

Glad the ScotchTape worked for you FigureSpins! 

I have a question for all you guys- the Scotch tape doesn't work for me.  With Scotch, the rigs have space to glide (this is not the case with their supplied masking tape, or any other tape I've tried- its just too tight a fit and neither unit can glide easily).  So I'm wondering- might I have a narrower than normal rig?  Or might I have a piece of metal that catches on the tape?  I can't feel anything, but I can't get my finger all the way in there, really either.  I don't see anything. 

I've given up taping, and now have light scratching along my blades.  I hope its just cosmetic ()- I consider it so..... I don't like it, but I'm the only one that sees that part of my blade.

[Bill_S]

It's just cosmetic. Even if you make it completely through the chrome to bare steel, it won't affect skating performance at all. Even grit hiding in plastic blade guards will scratch the chrome over time.

A suspected burr on the inside of the aluminum guide can be handled easily by passing a file through the slot. Press it flat against one side, slide a few passes, then the other. Little bumps can be removed in just a few strokes.

I wouldn't suggest to attempt opening the gap significantly with a file. It would be easy to file a slight angle on one end or the other, affecting alignment.

However, just a few passes to get rid of a burr won't matter.

[tstop4me]

Glad the ScotchTape worked for you FigureSpins! 

I have a question for all you guys- the Scotch tape doesn't work for me.  With Scotch, the rigs have space to glide (this is not the case with their supplied masking tape, or any other tape I've tried- its just too tight a fit and neither unit can glide easily).  So I'm wondering- might I have a narrower than normal rig?  Or might I have a piece of metal that catches on the tape?  I can't feel anything, but I can't get my finger all the way in there, really either.  I don't see anything. 

I've given up taping, and now have light scratching along my blades.  I hope its just cosmetic ()- I consider it so..... I don't like it, but I'm the only one that sees that part of my blade.

* If you're happy with the sharpening results so far (without using any tape at all), I'd say just continue doing so.  Just use some light oil on the sides of the blade to reduce friction with the Pro-Filer chassis.

* The scratches on the chrome are purely cosmetic.  On chrome-plated plain carbon steel blades, the plating (typically chrome over nickel) is removed in a zone along the immediate edge anyway.


If you wish to play Sherlock Holmes to get at the root cause of your problem, however, then:

* As I mentioned in Reply #14 above, to do proper diagnosis, you'll need a micrometer or caliper (.001", not micron, accuracy) to check both the thickness of the blade and the width of the guide slot of the Pro-Filer chassis.  I had similar problems with snagging of Scotch Tape.  The guide slot of the Pro-Filer chassis was fine, but it turned out that one blade was sufficiently thicker near the pick and tail that the tape would snag and tear there.  So I had to leave those portions untaped. 

* See my Reply #18 above for surface preparation instructions and an alternative, more robust tape (assuming it's not too thick; and you don't know without proper measurements). 

* If there's a minor burr on the inside of the Pro-Filer chassis (if there's a major burr, you'd probably have problems without tape), I would suggest using a burnishing rod instead of a file to remove it (less chance of damage).  The Pro-Filer chassis is fabricated from a relatively soft aluminum alloy.  A hardened steel burnishing rod should do the trick.  I described a suitable tool in Reply #1 of this thread:  http://skatingforums.com/index.php?topic=8385.0  (instead of using the tool to press down tape, use it directly against the walls of the slots of the Pro-Filer chassis to remove minor burrs; see Pix #2 in the referenced reply).   

[FigureSpins]

There's a "how to use the pro-filer sharpener" video on YouTube where the narrator states that the two "slots" are different widths.  I thought it was just for the single-stone kit, but maybe it also applies to the figure skating stones?

[tstop4me]

There's a "how to use the pro-filer sharpener" video on YouTube where the narrator states that the two "slots" are different widths.  I thought it was just for the single-stone kit, but maybe it also applies to the figure skating stones?

That's for the hockey Pro-Filer Plus.  Different chassis from the figure skating units.

[FigureSpins]

That's for the hockey Pro-Filer Plus.  Different chassis from the figure skating units.

That's what I assumed, but perhaps the too-tight chassis is incorrect on your set?

[Query]

With Scotch, the rigs have space to glide (this is not the case with their supplied masking tape, or any other tape I've tried- its just too tight a fit and neither unit can glide easily).

I think the gaps at least used to vary in width a bit - and were MUCH thinner for the hockey tools. But blades also vary in width.

If Scotch works for you, I see no reason to use anything else. I varied tape type mostly to create a snug enough fit that the tool would stay centered on the blade.

BTW, I have always assumed deep scratches on the side of the blade (or for that matter, in the hollow) would create more drag, if they are close enough to the bottom to sometimes touch the ice, and and would slow your glide. I don't have the right tools to test that hypothesis.  (Others here don't appear to believe that hypothesis correct.) So I oil or water the sides of the blade too, before and during sharpening. I suppose someone who cared what their blades looked like (e.g., if their skating was being judged) would do what was needed to keep the sides smooth and shiny.

(The only things I have any actual evidence for slowing down a blade are major warping, a toe pick that touches when I skate, for whatever reason, and extra blade width. Scratches "should" matter - I just don't know how much. The speed skaters I have talked to go to crazy extremes to cut drag - I bet some of them try not to scratch the sides too.)

[tstop4me]

BTW, I have always assumed deep scratches on the side of the blade (or for that matter, in the hollow) would create more drag, if they are close enough to the bottom to sometimes touch the ice, and and would slow your glide. I don't have the right tools to test that hypothesis.  (Others here don't appear to believe that hypothesis correct.)

For chrome-plated plain carbon steel figure skate blades, even if you assume the scenario of extreme lean (that is, the side of the boot is almost touching the ice), the only way for scratches on the chrome plate to contact the ice during skating would be if the blades had been sharpened so many times that the edges are at or close to the chrome-relief boundary.  Any figure skater fastidious enough to be concerned about optimization of performance would not be using blades that worn down.

[Query]

For chrome-plated plain carbon steel figure skate blades, even if you assume the scenario of extreme lean (that is, the side of the boot is almost touching the ice), the only way for scratches on the chrome plate to contact the ice during skating would be if the blades had been sharpened so many times that the edges are at or close to the chrome-relief boundary.  Any figure skater fastidious enough to be concerned about optimization of performance would not be using blades that worn down.

While I was taught that in ice dance, the side of the boot should brush the ice, especially in under pushes, that isn't really the issue. That generally isn't enough to make the plated region touch the ice, even if the blade sinks in a few mm during skating. (Except of course in jump take-offs and landings, when the blade sinks much deeper, but that are so brief that I doubt scratches matter.)

I am only concerned with scratches near the working surface - in other words in the chrome relief part, in the part that does sometimes touch the ice.

It is true that for the most part, the pro-filer won't scratch that region while sharpening, because the gap only touches the plated region, but sometimes the part near the working surface might get scratched when you insert or remove the blade.

[tstop4me]

While I was taught that in ice dance, the side of the boot should brush the ice, especially in under pushes, that isn't really the issue. That generally isn't enough to make the plated region touch the ice, even if the blade sinks in a few mm during skating. (Except of course in jump take-offs and landings, when the blade sinks much deeper, but that are so brief that I doubt scratches matter.)

I am only concerned with scratches near the working surface - in other words in the chrome relief part, in the part that does sometimes touch the ice.

It is true that for the most part, the pro-filer won't scratch that region while sharpening, because the gap only touches the plated region, but sometimes the part near the working surface might get scratched when you insert or remove the blade.

Yes, and the chrome relief, especially in MK and Wilson blades, has a relatively rough surface; certainly not mirror polished.  And the final stage of sharpening [with the Pro-Filer or power sharpener] generally entails running an abrasive honing stone over at least a portion of the chrome relief to remove the burr and form the final edge.  The initial surface and the final deburring will be far more dispositive of the final edge quality than any incidental scratches imparted by the Pro-Filer chassis (the chassis itself is fabricated from relatively soft aluminum alloy; any scratches imparted on the relatively much harder chrome relief would be due to stray trapped abrasive particles; but, as I mentioned above, deburring is generally done with an abrasive honing stone afterwards anyway).