Dance Blades - Eclipse vs Jackson vs Paramount

[davincisop]

Hey everyone! I made the switch to MK Pro and dance boots earlier this year, and got an additional set of boots that I can use for skating that is not at the rink so I don't break down my dance ones on lake ice. Originally I put a pair of freestyle blades on the other boots, but because I skate in dance only at this point, the change is just too big for skating on them and am instead looking at a pair of dance blades for my other boots. I wanted to get paramounts but unsure I want to drop that $$ on them especially not knowing how their dance matches up to mk dance.

Anyone with experience with Eclipse dance vs Jackson dance in comparison to mk dance? I want something that at least retains a good edge and won't break the bank. (Even my mk pros seem to dull pretty quickly which makes me sad given how expensive they were, but they're so pretty)

[Loops]

No personal experience here, since the picks (or lack thereof) on the high end dance blades scare the bejezzus out of me, but several of the high-level elite kids at my rink are in the Jackson dance.  My US skate tech STRONGLY encourages the Jackson line primarily because of quality control (he's been in the business since the dawn of time I think and has quite literally seen everything MK/Wilson can throw at him). But he also believes they are well designed. I'm in a Jackson Supremes and while I don't need that much blade, I've been very happy with the edge retention- I like a strong grip and now I go about double, maybe even triple the time between sharpenings.  I personally wouldn't hesitate to give them a go.

I know next to nothing about the eclipse line.  Riedell doesn't sell in mainland Europe anymore (it seems) so I've never bothered to look at them.

[Query]

The front-most longwise curvature ("spin rocker" - NOT the same as the main rocker that applies to the rest of the length) on Jackson Ultima Dance blades (like most Jackson Ultima blades vs most MK and Wilson blades) means you have much less angle and distance to roll between the sweet spot and touching the toe pick than on MK Dance. It took me over a year to get used to that, and I initially hated it.

In addition, MK dance blades are "thin-line", meaning they are ground substantially thinner at the bottom working area - which seemed to me to mean they were faster. The Ultima Dance (I have the now very old and no longer manufactured Jackson Ultima Dance Matrix I interchangeable blade system - I bought enough of them to last a lifetime) were not ground as thin.

I loved MK Dance, but, when I bought most recently, Jacksons were much cheaper - not sure if that is still true.

I've never used Paramount.

Almost all the skate techs I have spoken to agree that Jackson Ultima blades, and possibly Paramount blades, are ground to a much more consistent shape, and have a much better quality edge, than MK and Wilson blades. To some extent, it is helpful to have a very expert skate tech to correct any issues that exist in MK and Wilson blades - though you should also note that they reshape the blade to what they think the shape should be, so the shape you get on an MK or Wilson blades has as much to do with your individual skate tech as with what the factory does - which means that individual results may vary, a lot. OTOH, many of the better blade techs are sufficiently satisfied with consistency of sharpening of the factory grinds on Ultima and I think Paramount blades that they don't alter the factory shape much if at all.

Incidentally, the very sharp edge on the factory grind of Ultima blades extends to the toe pick and the part of the blade very close to the toe pick. Since most skate techs never sharpen these areas, that affects the way the toe pick and to some extent the area next to the toe pick works, for the lifetime of the blade. (A lot of people think the area right next to the toe pick never touches the ice, because it doesn't touch if you put it on a rigid surface, so they call it something like the non-skating area. But if you use a pencil to mark the bottom of the blade, the pencil mark does in fact wear off there - apparently, when you skate, the blade cuts in enough that it touches. That's more true on blades that you jump on, like freestyle blades, but it is true for Dance blades too.)

In that sense, I actually like the Ultima blades better.

FWIIW, almost all of the highest end world class Ice Dance skaters use MK Dance, though it is possible MK gives them blades for free.

[icedancer]

I haven't tried either blade BUT a friend who loved her MKs got the Eclipse because of the price and is very satisfied with them and says to her they feel comparable to the MK Dance.

[Query]

O.P.: a bit off-topic, but you say you switched to MK Pro for a while. Is that what you are call your "freestyle" blades? How do you like MK Pro for non-Dance skating? They are significantly cheaper than many other high end figure blades, yet, if I understand correctly, they are made much the same way as higher end HD Sports (MK & Wilson) blades. I wonder how they differ from the more expensive ones, and if there is a good reason more high end skaters don't use them.

I don't skate on pond ice any more, but on an outdoor rink that often has rough ice, I have found that very sharp blades are a big advantage - they cut through the surface junk, so I hardly notice the difference between smooth and rough ice - unless the ruts are deep enough to stop or trip me, or I splash through a melted section. Do you find the same thing?

As long as I keep my blades (Jackson Ultima Dance and Supreme) sharp, and I don't skate over a section with dirt, I don't think they wear much faster on outdoor rink ice than on smooth indoor ice. But, based on your post, I guess you don't agree, for your lake ice, else you wouldn't need two pair. Do your lakes have dirt on/in the surface, or contain something corrosive? If they contain something corrosive, have you tried stainless steel blades?

[davincisop]

I haven't been on MK Pros for over two years. I was on a Paramount Pattern 99 profile blade until April of this year when I switched to MK Dance (which is what my skate tech told me to go with). I have Paramount P99 on my other boots but don't like how stark of a contrast it is on those blades compared to dance now that I'm solely doing dance which is why I'm getting dance blades for the spare skates for outdoor skating.

When I was on the pros, I liked them a lot but overall preferred paramount for the amount of time it could hold a sharpening. That said, because of the price point for their dance model, and not many people seeming to have them at all, I'm hesitant to drop the $$$ on those. If I went with Eclipse, I could try them for 60 days and if I don't like them, return them. I'm more curious if the steel is more like the paramounts where it holds a sharpening much longer (because if it does, then eventually when it's time to replace the MK Dance, I might just switch brands).

[tstop4me]

When I was on the pros, I liked them a lot but overall preferred paramount for the amount of time it could hold a sharpening. That said, because of the price point for their dance model, and not many people seeming to have them at all, I'm hesitant to drop the $$$ on those. If I went with Eclipse, I could try them for 60 days and if I don't like them, return them. I'm more curious if the steel is more like the paramounts where it holds a sharpening much longer (because if it does, then eventually when it's time to replace the MK Dance, I might just switch brands).

The material for the Eclipse Dance is listed as 1075 carbon steel.  Your Paramount P99 is available in 420 or 440 stainless steel (which did you buy?).  The Paramount Dance is also available in 420 or 440 stainless. So the edge retention of the Eclipse Dance will likely be comparable to the edge retention of the MK Dance (carbon steel, grade not listed), not of your Paramount P99 (based on steel composition alone). 

[Loops]

Davincisop....what is it that bugs you the most about switching between?  Do you think a pair of CorDance could do you, if it's just the aggressive toe pick and maybe length of the P99's?   Or even, now that I think about it the vision synchros.  They have a much less pronounced drag pick, again if that's what you don't like about the P99's....Unless you're wanting to use these to test out other profiles, I don't see why you'd go all out for pond blades.