Recommendations for d30 pads?

[ScullySkater]

I'm a 45 y.o. adult skater who started learning 2 years ago to keep up with my 8 y.o. son. For practice and lessons, I'm currently wearing wrist guards, an Ice Halo, and DIY gel pads (Akton) on hips, knees, tailbone & in my Bauer Omo shoulder brace (did a "Midori Ito" last March & broke my left shoulder). I know, it sounds like overkill, but I'm a biologist so I'm realistic about the stresses and impacts a middle-aged body can sustain! Now that I'm back to doing 1-foot spins and edge jumps again, I'd like to upgrade to d30 pads but have no idea which brand(s) to buy. I'm leaning more towards sewing my own back & side pockets for hip & tailbone pads into skating pants I already have, as opposed to buying a padded skating or snowboarding short. I know about the Seku Pro Tech line, but the price is outrageous. However, it looks like there are some good, decently priced d30 pads sold for other sports, such as snowboarding, motocross, motorcycle racing, etc. I would assume that any pads that can handle a fall that occurs during those activities can handle a fall on the ice.

So, if you use d30 pads (hips, tailbone, shoulder or knee), what do you recommend? Are there brands you've tried that I should avoid? What's your opinion on padded shorts vs "a la carte" pads?

[riley876]

I bought a pair of these, in case I ever need low profile pads I can wear under pants.

http://demonsnow.com/store/d3o%20smart%20skin%20knee

But I'm not real impressed, the d3o is pretty thin (maybe 10mm?), and with the large gaps between the little sections it seem like the knee cap could hit the ground through these gaps.   They do make it real flexible though.   They definitely would be better than nothing, but not by a whole lot.   I would very much not like to catch a pick when skating on one foot and land on a single knee on these. 

Whereas with my awesome mega chunky 187 Pro Knee Pads (made for roller derby and half pipe skating), it's like falling on kittens™    They're hella chunky though,  but this hasn't been a problem for me so far,  but probably way too chunky for most folks tastes here.   They're certainly not "the look",  but they do do the biz incredibly well.

[Backtotheice]

I'm not sure what d30 pads are. I use  Waxel pads for tailbone https://sharperedgeskates.com/products/waxel-tailbone-pad?variant=23055635523 protection every time I skate. So far it has worked well and I fall nearly every time I skate. They are a bit bulky but don't care! I hit my tailbone hard about 8 months ago and do not want to repeat that!

I bought a pair of these Vigilante pads but they feel like overkill. http://www.xsportsprotective.com/products/vigilante-tech-padded-shorts-with-tailbone-shield-for-women-for-women

[rd350]

I've only used the ones in the Se_Ku ProTech pants and I like them.  I think you can buy the hip pads somewhere online but I know you can't buy the sacral pad without the pants.  I lost one and tried long and hard.

[ScullySkater]

Have you taken any falls while wearing these pads? If so, how much did they cushion the impact?

[Loops]

Here's a previous post on an older threshold on this subject

http://skatingforums.com/index.php?topic=7179.msg85417#msg85417

I've taken some falls on the coccyx pad I made from this....it's been a good thing.

[ScullySkater]

Thanks! This is one of the motorcycle websites I have looked at too, so I am encouraged to hear that you are happy with the back protector you bought from them. I see that Icon also makes hip protectors (although they seem to be sold out at this site), so I may try to find those as well.

[irenar5]

I wear knee pads every time:     
http://www.eastbay.com/product/model:200644/sku:6440RBK1/mcdavid-hex-knee/elbow/shin-pad-mens/black/&SID=7726&inceptor=1&cm_mmc=SEM-_-PLA-_-Google-_-6440rbk1&gclid=CLfOp-Db6NECFcGOfgodqQUP9A

I put them under my leggings right on bare skin.  I have fallen several times on them and they work VERY well!

I also used the elbow pads by the same company (wore those when I was learning my axel- I kept falling on my elbow) - also work well!
Also I occasionaly wore the shorts, again by the same company
http://www.dme-direct.com/mcdavid-hexpad-womens-mulit-sport-impact-short-7251.

I have had various volleyball pads over the years (I do not mind wearing them over the leggings), but the Hex ones are low profile, so can be worn under the leggings.
I have the Skating safe pads as well (made from Akton polymer) and do not like them- they are heavy and  get very wet underneath and I am worried they will slide down my leg.   A lot of adults at my rink wear them and like them a lot, though.

[Leif]

I wear so much armour I might as well get a horse and jousting pole. I always wear a helmet after leaving blood on the ice from a head wound. It's a basic hard shell one from a skateboarding shop. I also wear Demon D30 padded shorts, which are amazing. Previously a fall on the coccyx would be agony and in one case I was in agony the following day and unable to walk normally. Now the worst falls will hurt, but the pain goes in seconds, and I can carry on skating normally. I also wear Pro Tec elbow pads with a hard plastic shell, they are comfortable, cheap and effective. I have tried Pro Tec hard knee pads, but they are too bulky and uncomfortable, good for snowboarding, not so good for ice skating. I have also tried Smith Scabs Gaskets, which provide sufficient padding to cushion impacts, but after a couple of hours the insides are soaking wet. I briefly tried Burtons basics knee pads, but they offer very little protection and the fit is very tight, so I was XL not the usual M or L. Yesterday I bought some Forcefield limb tubes. They have a thin stretchy fabric tube with a removeable piece of D30 like plastic armour. I put one on in the shop, and whacked each knee with a coat hanger. One knee hurt, the other felt nothing. They also pull on easily, and do not restrict movement. But you must get the right size, the size down fitted, but the armour dug into my shins as the curvature was too tight. Finally I have a Silopos gel pad for my right foot to prevent lace bite, after I got mild pain recently, it does the trick.

I strongly recommend Demon and Forcefield armour, although they are expensive. What is good about them is that the armour is thin, so you can wear it under other clothing. I wear the padded shorts under tracksuit bottoms, and no-one seems to notice when I go to the local supermarket on the way home from skating. They certainly don't notice in the rink, as stewards are surprised when I fall heavily, then just grin when they ask if I am alright. Incidentally I wear hockey skates, not sure how the pads would perform when doing jumps and spins, although the Forcefield and Demon products are sold to motorcyclists and speedway riders. 

[lutefisk]

I wear these D30 knee pads both on the ice and while racing small sailing dinghies:  http://www.apsltd.com/musto-d30-kneepads.html

Expensive, but a shattered patella costs a whole lot more.

[Query]

I would assume that any pads that can handle a fall that occurs during those activities can handle a fall on the ice.

A lot how much you or padding can handle depends on how you fall. If you are very stiff when you fall, or put yourself into the wrong body configuration, no plausible amount of padding can prevent injury. Injury can even be caused by internal muscle tension if you fight a fall too hard. I practice falls (I have a web page on this), and don't wear padding, and I'm about 60. One method is to use rolls or slides over soft tissue to spread the impact over as much of the body as possible, and avoid making initial impact on bone (e.g., elbows, knees, back of head). Only practice can do that, because your initial instincts may be too slow or be wrong.

But it makes sense to wear what makes you feel comfortable - in part because if you are nervous, you will tend to go stiff. Padding also makes it possible to do things a little wrong and still get away with it uninjured. And cover as much skin as you can to prevent abrasions, and wash any possible abrasions that occur to prevent infection.

[Leif]

No doubt some injuries can be avoided by falling better such as not breaking a fall with a hand. I recently saw a young woman sprawl on the ice, which I assume was how she was taught to fall.

I find that the nasty falls are when my feet go forward and I fall vertically onto my backside. Fortunately they are now rare since I found a competent skate sharpener. One such fall left me in agony the next day, and I can't see how technique could have reduced the impact since I was in freefall. Recently a steward at a local rink was deliberately tripped and fell on his bottom, followed by his head hitting the ice. And last week a not so young figure skater fell on his backside, it looked very painful. Personally I cannot see a reason not to wear protective clothing, as it does not interfere with my skating, and prevents serious injuries. Skate and snow boarders and inline skaters do. And several skaters at the local ice rink now wear pads and helmets.

[Query]

No doubt some injuries can be avoided by falling better such as not breaking a fall with a hand.

On ice, you can have very gentle falls that way - done right. You have to be relaxed - e.g., elbows and wrists bent and soft. And the hands and arms should be sliding forwards as you hit, so the impact is absorbed very gradually, as you straighten your arms, and the impact is mostly taken by the soft tissue on the arms. Done right, you won't have more than a pound or two of force at any one time, and it will be spread out. Needless to say, it is better to wear long sleeve clothing and gloves so sliding along a scratch in the ice doesn't cut or abrade you, though you can do it without if you must. I've also used such falls in inline roller skates on asphalt and concrete - though that is toughter, because there is potentially more friction if you do it wrong, increasing potential abrasion.

Incidentally, people are often taught to slap the floor with their hands in Judo. As near as I can tell, that results in a potentially much higher impact force on the hands than what I suggest. (Judo is a combat sport - and minimizing impact force isn't the only issue in determining combat vulnerabilities. So So martial arts falls aren't always as gentle as they could be.)

I find that the nasty falls are when my feet go forward and I fall vertically onto my backside... I can't see how technique could have reduced the impact since I was in freefall.

In this and most cases, you don't reduce impact force during the fall - you reduce it on impact, by gradually deforming into the surface. Specifically, you curl your head forwards, so that the back of the head doesn't take the impact, and you roll as you would on a backwards somersault. You curl as you roll, which increases the distance over which the impact is absorbed. It is most gentle to let the feet be propelled off the ice as you roll, since that increases greatly the effective time and distance over which the impact is absorbed. I don't curl the legs much, though the knees bend a little. I let gravity gradually absorb the motion of the legs on the way up. (Though my figure skating director disagrees, and tells students to keep their feet on the ice. She is afraid the faller will kick someone on crowded ice.)

Taking falls gently all relates back to physics.

One physics equation is v^2 = 2 a d, where v is the original speed, a is the acceleration, which is equal to force divided by mass, and d is the distance over which that acceleration is applied. You minimize force by minimizing acceleration, which is done by increasing the distance over which the force is absorbed. That's why your body needs to be soft, and why you need to deform, roll and slide. You also want to try to make initial impact on soft tissue, because it deforms much more than hard tissue, again increasing the distance.

Stress (e.g., pressure) is force divided by area of impact. By rolling or sliding as you take the impact, you also increase the effective surface area absorbing that impact - and decrease the stress. For the most part, stress is a better measure than force of what could damage a material, including human tissue.

Another thing you are doing by using the right body part trajectory is to attempt to turn the force on the bones into pure compression. If you hit in such a way as to bend bone, the part of the bone on the outside of the bend is stretched (placed under tension). The material that bones (more or less calcium carbonate) are made of can take compressive pressure many times greater than tension without damage, so this is absolutely imperative to correct fall technique. In contrast, muscle and ligament can absorb many times greater tension than compression. Bone, muscle and ligament are intermediate between compression and tension at taking sheer stress - forces that make one layer slide against another, so you also want to reduce sheer to some extent - though a slide does create some sheer. ("Stress" in physics and engineering refers to forces that tend to deform things - not to tears in ligaments.) By wearing clothing, over the skin, you can let it absorb the sheer stress - which the clothing I wear is well designed to take. By falling and impacting in such as way as to make each tissue and material takes the type of stress that it can take best without damage, you take advantage of the composite (multiple material) construction of the human body.

It gets even more complicated. Many body tissues are stronger in one direction than another, quite apart from the compression/tension/sheer/torsion issue. For example, muscle fibers are able to take against tensions along the fibers best, rather than tensions and sheers that separate the fibers from each other. Likewise, as you body grows and respond to stress, bones and other tissues adaptively create internal structures that take forces best in the directions they experience. But being gentle on your body still boils down to reducing the stresses, and letting stress directions reflect what each tissue and body part is best able to take. (Note: martial arts people sometimes do the opposite - they practice taking stress so it grows better able to take it. For example, they may repeatedly strike a fist against hard objects to increase bone thickness and density.)

Personally I cannot see a reason not to wear protective clothing, as it does not interfere with my skating, and prevents serious injuries. Skate and snow boarders and inline skaters do. And several skaters at the local ice rink now wear pads and helmets.

The question is how much you want to wear. If you are going to impact stiffly and don't control your trajectory, you might need a foot or two of padding to absorb the impact safely. That's not practical. Even that might not be enough on some body parts, like your neck or fingers, which may not even be able to take your static weight in some directions. Likewise, no amount of padding can prevent joint dislocations, if the forces are in the wrong places and directions. If you do falls right, you can cut the necessary protection to the thickness of a shirt, pants and gloves, which weigh less, is less awkward, and won't cause you to overheat.

One other issue is that figure skating, like dance, is an appearance sport. What's the point of doing a move well, if no one can see the move because of all the padding?

But, for the most part, I agree that people should wear whatever they need to be reasonably safe, especially at first. It takes a lot of practice to fall gently during unexpected falls. In the mean time, or if you don't get the right types of practice, you should do what you need to protect yourself.

In addition, there are possible impacts that occur at ice rinks that practicing falls can't make completely safe - like when someone hits you from behind at high speed. You can learn to take that to some extent, and learn to try to stay aware of people around you - but padding would help too. There are also cases where someone skates over your hand or into your face with their blades when you are on the ice, that protection could help with - though you can only go so far.

[riley876]

One other issue is that figure skating, like dance, is an appearance sport. What's the point of doing a move well, if no one can see the move because of all the padding?

- Because it feels good
- Because of the sense of satisfaction
- Because padding doesn't actually hide the quality of movement.  Good skating is obvious, padding or not.

Besides, it's NOT a sport.  At least not for me.  It's a hobby.  I'm sure I'm not the only one here who feels this way.

If "to impress others" is the primary goal, then I posit you're in for quite a miserable time.  Unless you're world class.   Then you're in for a really miserable time.

[Isk8NYC]

Looks like this topic has run off the rails.  Friendly first warning: thread drift is poor netiquette, especially when you say figure skating isn't a sport on a message board devoted to figure skating.