Adjusting to Edea's and a shorter blade

[mnrjpf99]

I have noticed that a lot of skaters wear Edea boots. I do like the style of them and understand they are very comfy and such.

From what I understand, Edeas use a shorter blade. EX. I am a size 6.5 in Riedells, with a 9 3/4 blade. With Edeas, I would have to use a 9 1/4 blade. I am not in any hurry to go out and buy Edeas at the moment, but what I am wondering, is if it is a hard transition to go to the shorter blade in the event that I decide to change to Edeas?

[celia]

I went from a Jackson Premiere size 7.5 (a little too big for me) on a 10" blade (Pattern 99) to an Edea Chorus 255 on a 9-1/2" blade (also Pattern 99).  I did find the transition noticeable.  When I first got on the ice my balance was in the wrong place.  I was able to perform my elements ok, but everything felt a little off.  It took me a week or two to adapt.   I'm quite happy with the boot/blade combination now.

[mnrjpf99]

I too am on P99's. I love them. I think I may do is keep a look out for some used but good 9 1/4 p99's and then maybe find a deal on the Edea Ice Fly's. I just like the style of the boot. However, I also like Edea Piano's as well.

[Neverdull44]

The shorter blade wasn't a transition, even on back threes.    The transition has been the higher heel, which forced me more on my toes.  This causes more scratchiness.  Plus, I was using a 1/2" grind on the blades, and I was going more on the dragon pick to keep my balance in things like a loop jump.  I got a deeper hollow, and now am not scratching as much.   But, bending my knees is something I am always struggling with.    Also, the first few times I tried a camel spin, the lightness of the boot threw me off.  But, I got used to that.

[mnrjpf99]

I was thinking that the shorter blade would put you center of gravity closer to the smaller radius or "spinning" part of the blade. I imagine that that could be a plus with camels and such because of not having to go as far forward on the blade to spin. I hope that all made sense. Lol

I was not aware that the Edea's had a higher heal. I wonder if all Edea boots are like that, or just certain models? Good to know anyway. :0)

[Neverdull44]

I was in 20 year old blades with NO more good stuff to sharpen.  They were flat, flat.  So, having new blades with a rocker was a new experience.  It took about a month of being 'too much on the inside edge' and making large circles in a quasi-camel, and then my camel came back.   My camel still runs away from me, especially at competition.  But, that's another story.

I did have problem with the boot itself. The footbed is just like a panty liner.  No support at all for my plantar fascitius.   I had to have custom orthotics (which were almost as expensive as the boot itself).  The podiatrist made a world of difference.  My old Harlicks, I had some minimal foot pain because the footbed was much better.   I will probably go back to Harlick once these wear out (but that might not be for another 5 years . . . had them 2 or 3 years now).

[celia]

My understanding is that all Edeas have the higher heel.  All models are also lighter than leather boots due to the carbon fiber.  So if you want to try Edeas because of their profile, fit, and weight, but don't want to spend the money on the Ice Fly, consider a lower level model.  In fact, go to a good fitter and try a couple different ones on.  I tried on the Ice Fly because I was told it has more cushion, but the Chorus fit me fine and is more than good enough for my level.

[riley876]

My experimenting with heel heights showed me that higher heels put my natural weight placement further forward on the blade.   I'm a freak, but I'm assuming it's the same mechanism for everyone.

A combination of a very high heel and a short blade might put it too far forward.   Though of course, nothing is stopping you moving the blade forward to compensate if necessary.

[Christy]

There's always going to be some transition when you get bigger or smaller boots / blades. I got smaller boots / blades when I transitioned from Jackson to Edea and it took around 30 minutes to get used to the shorter blade but around 5 hours to get used to the higher heel (and it would have been much longer if I hadn't used superfeet). I recently got a smaller Edea boot and blade and it is taking forever to get used to the shorter blade.

[mnrjpf99]

I am tempted to get a decent pair of blades that are 9 1/4 and put them on my Riedell boots and see how that goes first to "simulate" the Edea boot and blade configuration.

The whole higher heel thing is just sorta weird. I would think it would really mess someone up; on top of having a shorter blade.

My other problem is, that even just going straight, I tend to ride the inside edge of my right foot. I was told I very well may need an orthodic. I have a short Achilles Tendon (short heel cord) on my right foot and am flat footed. :0/

If I am gonna do it. I better do it right. :0)

[Nate]

Took boots apart and the heel heights on multiple stock models was similar (thought that was a problem, and I was throwing them away, anyways as I couldn't find people who could use them). What was different was the footbed profile, and how steep the incline is under the arch of the foot.

Edea (Concerto), Risport (RF2 Super), Klingbeil (S-2), SP-Teri (KT-2) are the stock models I disassembled.

I think the difference in footbed profile is such that it can feel like a heel height disparity. The Risports felt like high heels compared to Teri's despite having heels that were practically the same height. Footbed over the arch area had a much steeper incline, which caused this (so more suitable to people with higher arches).

That being said, Edea could have changed since I bought mine, but the heel heights almost seemed standardized for stock models. External measurements on my Jacksons suggest they would be very similar, as well (stock Elite boots).


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[DressmakingMomma]

Nate, our skate tech calls what you are talking about a ramp and says Edea and Risport have a fast ramp, Jackson and Harlick are in the middle, and SP-teri and Riedell have slow ramps. It is about how much movement it takes to get from your heel to your toe and how 'fast' that happens. I assumed the ramp was created with heel height, so it is interesting that the heights look similar from the outside of the boot but are different internally.

After a pair of Jacksons, a pair of Harlicks, and two pairs of Edeas, we have discovered our daughter is most comfortable and has better alignment in the in-between boots so we've gone back to Jacksons temporarily until she stops growing and then we will order her a pair of custom Harlicks. I find it so fascinating how such tiny details seem to make a difference in skating quality and comfort.

[Jenna]

The reason that Edeas, in particular, give the feel of a higher heel stems from the ball of the foot.  Since the sole of the Edeas are thin, that's where the increased pitch of the boot come from.  The heels are the same height as my Klingbeils, but since the sole is thinner, the ball of the foot is much closer to the plate of the blade than a traditional leather sole.  The ball of your foot is now that much lower than the heel.

I would also disagree that this is better for higher arches.  My Edeas make my arches hurt constantly, even with custom orthotics replacing the insoles.

[axelwylie]

I went from Jackson Competitors with a 10" blade to Edea Ice Flys with a 9 1/4" blade. The blade itself wasn't a big adjustment but the higher heel was. I have flat feet and my arches hurt for about 3-4 weeks. The Edeas didn't take any adjustment time otherwise  as I was able to land axels on my 2nd session with them.

[mnrjpf99]

Wow! A 3/4 inch difference in blade length. Are your Ice Fly's size 245 or 250? Are they mounted from heel to toe or do you have a 1/4 shorter blade at the heel? I know "normally" the blades on Edea's are mounted heel to toe. I was watching a vid of  Julia (Yulia) Lipnitskaya and she seems to have a 1/4" space at the heel blade mount, on her Ice fly's. That seems kinda short to me. Lol

I tried on a pair of Jackson's at one point and they were a size 5, with a 10inch blade. I thought that was kinda weird. My Riedell's are a size 7 with  9 3/4 blades with a 1/4 space at the heel.

I am also very flat footed and worry about them being uncomfortable as well.

[axelwylie]

My Ice Flys are size 250. I tried the 245s but they were too tight and hurt my feet. I was in 7.5 Jacksons before. What I realized after getting the Edeas is that I was skating in boots that were too big. I was able to scrunch my toes completely while they were in the Jackson boots. I don't have any wiggle room in the Edeas.

The blade is mounted from toe to heel.

[mnrjpf99]

I had also been wearing oversized boots as well. I was properly measured and my feet are stupid wide. :0/ According to the Riedell chart, I "should be" in a size 6 wide (C), but in reality, my 7's seem to work. I had them punched, but they are still a lil narrow.
At some point when I do get Edea's, I hope to be able to fit the 245's. Just finding shoes that fit good is a pain. :0(

[Query]

The shorter blade wasn't a transition, even on back threes.    The transition has been the higher heel, which forced me more on my toes.  This causes more scratchiness.

FWIIW, if you lengthen the heel on any GIVEN boot, and you don't shim to compensate the resulting tilt in the blade, that places the toe pick further from the ice, assuming your leg and foot orientation stay the same.

So, Neverdull44, you could have tried shimming the bottom of your heel, to make it longer, and lift the toepick off the ice. In other words, somewhat consistent with what others have said, it wasn't the higher apparent heel height that changed the way you skate. It was the relation between the forwards tilt of the foot and the tilt of the blade.

Unfortunately for those of us like me (but maybe not you) who hate high heels, and would like to have our feet level, if you sand off the bottom of your heel, that places the toe pick closer to the ice. You can then shim to compensate - but that effectively gives you high heels again. Yuk!

I wonder if there would be any disadvantage to a boot designed for a flat level footbed, without the tilt or bend at the ball, assuming the heel and forward mounting area were positioned to get the blade inclination right...

[Nate]

The reason that Edeas, in particular, give the feel of a higher heel stems from the ball of the foot.  Since the sole of the Edeas are thin, that's where the increased pitch of the boot come from.  The heels are the same height as my Klingbeils, but since the sole is thinner, the ball of the foot is much closer to the plate of the blade than a traditional leather sole.  The ball of your foot is now that much lower than the heel.

I would also disagree that this is better for higher arches.  My Edeas make my arches hurt constantly, even with custom orthotics replacing the insoles.

Generally, it's better. I can wear Teri's without arch supports. In Jackson and Risport, I require support because of the steeper footbed plus  the fact that my arch is flatter. My foot cannot lie across the footbed from heel to toe. This is not an issue for someone with a higher arch. I know people who wear them with the stock insole and could see why from simply looking at their feet.

Manufacturers like SP-Teri allow you co change heel height even on stock boots, and all customs.

Edea doesn't. So, th brand discriminates feet a lot more. The "instant" custom they claim ignores one of the most fundamental issues in fitting boots. Width and accommodating bumps are a lot easier to modify for than a footbed which is a terrible match for the skater's feet.

Your point about thickness of the sole only matters if the sole has uneven thickness, which isn't the case.

The steeper footbed means that the length of the boot is decreased, as more length is condensed into the vertical pitch of the footbed (compare external length of a stiletto to flats, for example) which is why they take shorter blades.

Most boots have a standard heel that's generally similar to others. Stock boots won't go much higher because the number of people needing them doesn't justify standardizing a design like that.

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