Move blades on PVC soles?

[tammyk]

I am a beginner skater and my first time on the ice was the end of September. I'm having a lot of trouble with one foot glides. My coach says that my blade position is part of the problem. I'm in Reidell 119s so the sole is PVC. The skating director says they can't be moved, but when I spoke to someone at Reidell, he said they could. Does anyone know if they really can be moved without ruining the skates? Is this a defect in my skates or is moving the blade a standard thing?

Thank you! 

[TreSk8sAZ]

My understanding is that yes, blades can be moved on PVC soles, but it is difficult and most skate technicians won't do it. You would need to find someone very good - it can't just be someone at the rink. Depending on how much the blade needs to be moved, the holes might need to be filled before new ones can be drilled.

As far as blades needing to be moved, this is not uncommon. Each person's foot is a bit different and there may be issues like pronation (ankles leaning in) or supination (ankles leaning out) that an adjustment of blade position can help. Personally, I pronate, so my blades are offset just a bit to the inside.

[Loops]

..and I supinate, so mine are a smidge to the outside AND shimmed!!  Yes, its very normal to not have a "normal" (i.e. manufacturers) blade placement. 

I've never had skates with PVC soles, so I won't comment on that.  I would suggest you ask your coach where s/he suggests you take them.  If you can get the alignment sorted, it will do great things for you!  If not, ask your coach what the best course of action is.  I'd hate to say "new skates" since you probably just bought these......

[aussieskater]

From personal experience yes they can be successfully moved; my daughter's first 2 pairs needed moving - one for pronation and the second because the blades were misaligned out of the box.  TreSk8Az is right that you need an experienced tech who is willing to do it.

ETA my DD's skates were Risport with the grey PVC sole and Jackson with the brown PVC sole; I think Reidells have a black sole and not sure it's made of the same stuff?

[rd350]

I supinate too and my blades are to the outside and shimmed as well.  But soles are not PVC.

Look for a good skate fitter in your area and see if they will do it for you.  Just do a little research.  Where are you located?  Maybe someone here will have a referral.

[tammyk]

Based on a search I did previously on this forum, I think the closest fitter to me is Mark Ladwig in Ellenton. I have an appointment with him in January for my daughter. Should he be able to help with this?

If they can't be moved or it's unsuccessful, is it worth buying new skates?  I don't want to throw money away but I don't want to waste time getting frustrated either if it would truly make a difference.

I originally took lessons because my daughter wanted me to skate with her, but now I really like it even though I'm not very good and I'm always afraid someone is going to ram into me. (Which has happened twice already). I guess since I'm so new at this I don't want to just blame the equipment, but I don't think my coach would tell me that for no reason. She says the right foot is worse and I really struggle on that side. When she held my feet on the ice to show me where the flat of the blade was I felt like I was really leaning to to the outside on both sides. The last time I managed to do a one foot glide on my left side ( it's only been a handful of times), I tried to figure out what I was doing differently. I feel like I really exaggerated leaning to the left. Is that pronating or supinating?

Thanks everyone. 

[nicklaszlo]

I believe that while Mark Ladwig has only been a skate tech for a few years, he has been trained as a skate tech, so probably.  He's pretty famous.

Yes you should consider buying new skates.  PVC soles are found on starter skates.

[rd350]

Hmm, interesting, my blades being off results in my "straight glide" veering off to one side (the right) but doesn't mean I can't glide.  This is a test for that.  Gliding straight ahead and seeing if you draft.  Similar checking your car's wheel balance.

[Loops]

For me it manifested as a fight to maintain an edge. I thought it was just me (had been off the ice for ~25years). It was my fitter who noticed the problem when I went in for another reason, when he saw me skate. So if your guy is set up in a rink, and has developed a good eye for this, he might have some insights. It'd be worth setting up an additional appt with him.  He'll be able to advise you on skates, too if it comes to that.

[Query]

FWIIW, hocky skate technicians do this sort of thing more often than figure skate technicians. Try one of them, though not all know how. Make sure you can tell them exactly what you want. 

Guys who maintain rental skates don't usually move blades, but some replace them, and might be able to do what you want - but may not work in a pro shop or do outside work.

Some roller skate shops might know how too.

It's possible that your blades were installed with rivets rather than screws. (Is there a screwdriver head?) Look for a shop that has a rivet punch to remove the old rivets.

If you are just trying to change balance, you can achieve most of the same effect by reshaping your insoles (put a little tape or foam under one side, or sand down the other). If you have trouble finding someone who can do the work, give that a try first.

[tammyk]

I spoke to my coach again. She says I'm pronating. She's asked around for me and no one will move them. She recommends that I get new skates that I can move the blades on and help with my heel problem. We'll see what the fitter says in January. Hopefully he can find something for me that won't break the bank.

[Loops]

In the meantime, why don't you try something like the yellow superfeet? They may help, and with a little luck, might even allow you to put off new skates (and the inevitable break in that comes with them) for a while.

[tammyk]

I will look into the superfeet. Thanks.

For new skates, the lowest level I see in Jackson and reidell that have a leather sole and come in narrow are the freestyles and 229. Won't those be too stiff for me? I'm almost 40, 5'4, 125-130 pounds.  I don't ever plan on jumping.

[sarahspins]

Jackson also has the Elle which has a leather sole and is a much softer boot - it's a very nice option

[tammyk]

Does the Elle come in narrow?

[Loops]

As per Jackson's website (http://www.jacksonultima.com/en/Index.aspx?product=Vbyi23S58s7eaisqieEyng1A2B3C4D5E1A2B3C4D5E):

The narrowest they come is a B.  Check Kinzie's closet for size charts (but bear in mind, these are for ballpark only, let a fitter do it for you properly).  Riedell has a narrower last, so depending on how narrow your feet are, that might be a good option.  Both companies make very good skates, so you can focus on fit.  There's also Graf and Risport (Risport also has a narrower last...couldn't tell you about Graf).  Your fitter will be able to recommend a boot that has a last closer to your footshape.

In terms of stiffness, you should also let your coach and fitter be your guides there.  But for educative purposes, Kinzie's closet also has "recommendations" for boots and blades for various levels.  Note that these are for kids, not adults.  There are other factors that affect recommended stiffness, not least of which being weight. So we big kids need to consider a stiffness around one level above (or more depending on preference) what they say for the wee ones.

hth!

[Query]

Instead of Superfeet, you could try just putting a few layers of tape (or if you have a lot of space to fill, adhesive foam, like Moleskin) under the insole on the inside side (on top of the inside edges) of your feet. Essentially, what may be happening is that you don't currently support much of your weight on that side, so your feet tend to tilt in that direction. This occurs because the foot bed, with the insole on top, does not match the shape and/or tilt of the bottom of your foot, when you are properly balanced. (Complication: unequal pressure along the sides of your boot, from other foot/boot shape mismatches, can do it too.) On top of that, the relatively low pressure on one side means you don't have as much control as you could over sideways movement of the blade. If you really want to get into it, you can try and figure out whether you have properly balanced pressure when you are balanced over different parts of your blade - like when you are gliding, turning, spinning, twizzling, jumping, or landing, and try to improve all those things by experimenting with careful strategic placement of tape and/or foam.

There is very little difference in theory between using a custom orthotic, a heat-moldable orthotic like Superfeet, and adding a few pennies worth of tape and/or foam. Once you learn to feel what parts of your feet have more pressure on them than others, it only takes a few minutes to modify your insole to do what you want.

That's a bit simplified. A real medical expert, like a sports podiatrist who specializes in skaters, may do a lot more than help you feel more comfortable, and move and balance the way you want. E.g., he/she may be looking for other unhealthy issues associated with movement, like the alignment and motion of your knees, hips, and spine, the way you use various muscle groups, and for a variety of immediate and long-term medical problems. The few hundred dollars he/she may charge for a custom orthotic isn't really just for the orthotic, which may not be in effect any different from a few pennies worth of tape and/or foam - it's for the training and expertise to look for those things. But if all you want is to change the way you move and balance in ways that you clearly understand, and to feel more comfortable doing so, you can probably do it yourself on the cheap - provided you don't have a medical issue that makes your feet too numb to feel where the pressure is.

[davincisop]

Not sure where you are located since Mark is closest to you, but if you happen to make it to Melbourne (Space Coast Iceplex), Randy Davis is also quite good. He's sharpened and adjusted my skates for over 5 years and I travel over an hour to him to get my skates taken care of.

I think Brian Kader at RDV is also good at that, but don't quote me.