Gold Seal vs Pattern 99 (Riedell Eclipse equivalent)

[SkaterSia]

Hello! I'm new to the forum. Anywho, I just ordered a new pair of SP Super Teri's and am still deciding on a new pair of blades. My fitter (who's worked with Olympic skaters) suggested the Riedell Eclipse Infinity blade (same thing as Pattern 99) because they've been getting pretty popular and are only $325. However there are also the Riedell Eclipse Pinnacle blade which are just like Gold Seals and are only $380.
I'm having a really hard time deciding.

Right now, I'm in Coronation Aces, and I am in Pre-Juve but I am doing axels and doubles. However I'm behind in my spins. What I'm worried about is the pick difference between the blades, an my blades right now have a hard time holding it's edge.
So should I get the Infinity or Pinnacle??

[sarahspins]

Does your coach have any input?  Kinzie's closet lists a very similar description to the pattern 99 (including the 27" spin rocker) but that information does NOT appear on any of Riedell/Eclipse materials so I don't know how similar the Infinity really is to the Pattern 99 aside from the pick configuration but I've known a few people that had a lot of trouble with spinning on the 99's since that blade has a flatter spin rocker than most other blades pushing the sweet spot away from the drag pick (which may work fine for some skaters, but also seems to cause lots of problems for others - Visions are more widely used at my rink because the picks are a very similar configuration to the 99 but the spin rocker is rounder like most other MK blades and doesn't cause as many issues).  I only mention it because you say you are behind in spins, so if the blade profile of the Eclipse is really more like the 99's it might be a consideration that you should discuss with your coach in addition to your fitter.  It may not be a problem for you, but it helps to be aware that it could be.

A lot of coaches like gold seals because the spin rocker definitely isn't flat - it has quite a curve to it over a short area (GS uses a 12" spin rocker radius) and it usually makes for better/faster spins and better edge jump take offs, which could make the Pinnacle a better choice, but there is nothing in the description of the Pinnacle to confirm it has the same spin rocker as the gold seal.  I'd ask the fitter about this as well.

Either should be a good option though - the information I have about the 99's is somewhat anecdotal, I've never tried them myself, but the people I do know who have, haven't adjusted well.  My coach isn't a fan of them either - she prefers the MK Vision.

[FigureSpins]

I've had both Pattern 99's and Gold Seals.  I prefer the Gold Seals.  I like the higher stanchions and longer tail as well as the rocker profile.   The toe rakes are different...i dont remember if i felt a difference.  I think the Coronation Ace blade to Gold Seal is an easier transition.


This link contains some details on the Eclipse line of blades:
http://skatingforums.com/index.php?topic=1165.msg25782#msg25782

[SkaterSia]

My coach has Pattern 99 and so do two other girls I skate with. They seem to be working fine for them. And I asked my coach about the Pinnacle blades (Gold Seal Copy) and she said both of them are good for me, and that I decide.

[severina]

I had a gold seal for a long time as a teenager and as an adult I switched to the Paramount gold seal profile.  I couldn't stand it.  I went to the paramount pattern 99 profile and within about 10 minutes of skating on them I was hooked.  My doubles are huge now and my toe jumps are better than they've ever been.

[FigureSpins]

Did you switch from Wilson Gold Seals directly to Paramount Gold Seal-profiled blades?

I had wondered about the profiles on Paramounts because the site had tech specs that showed their blades having difference rocker radii than the original blades, yet they allegedly had the same "profile."  I didn't (and still don't) understand how the profile could be the same if the blade had a different radius?



For those that don't know, the word "radius" is used for several technical terms.  For example:

Using a perfect edge, any blade will trace a circle.  The radius (center=>edge length) of the circle would be the blade's rocker radius.
Underneath each blade, there is a rounded hollow between the edges.  The radius of that hollow called the blades radius of hollow (ROH).

Here, I'm curious about the rocker radius, not the radius of hollow.

[Query]

I had wondered about the profiles on Paramounts because the site had tech specs that showed their blades having difference rocker radii than the original blades, yet they allegedly had the same "profile."

At one time, I was annoyed to realize that Ultima had advertised the Ultima Dance blades as being similar to MK Dance blades, yet they had substantially different composition, thickness, main rocker radii, spin rocker radii, and toe pick shape, from MK Dance blades. Presumably they meant it was the exactly the same in everything but composition and shape. I.E., that they are both used by Dance skaters.

[severina]

Did you switch from Wilson Gold Seals directly to Paramount Gold Seal-profiled blades?

I had wondered about the profiles on Paramounts because the site had tech specs that showed their blades having difference rocker radii than the original blades, yet they allegedly had the same "profile."  I didn't (and still don't) understand how the profile could be the same if the blade had a different radius?

Yeah, I had switched from Wilson Gold Seal to Paramount Gold Seal Profile.  I really didn't like the change or feel.  I ditched them and went to the Paramount Pattern 99 Profile.  I'm still kinda baffled because I never really liked Pattern 99's as a teenager.  Another thing could also be that I went from the Wilson Gold Seal (carbon steel) to the Paramount Gold Seal (Stainless 440c) and when I went to the Paramount Pattern 99 it was the carbon steel version.  I think I'm more hooked on the carbon steel than anything else.  When I went to the stainless, it felt like I was on top of the ice and never felt happy with the edges.

[Casey]

Yeah, I had switched from Wilson Gold Seal to Paramount Gold Seal Profile.  I really didn't like the change or feel.  I ditched them and went to the Paramount Pattern 99 Profile.  I'm still kinda baffled because I never really liked Pattern 99's as a teenager.  Another thing could also be that I went from the Wilson Gold Seal (carbon steel) to the Paramount Gold Seal (Stainless 440c) and when I went to the Paramount Pattern 99 it was the carbon steel version.  I think I'm more hooked on the carbon steel than anything else.  When I went to the stainless, it felt like I was on top of the ice and never felt happy with the edges.

Sorry for dredging up an old post, but this exact topic has been on my mind lately.  I made this same transition...well from Gold Seals to Paramounts anyways - at the time they didn't make multiple profiles yet but I think they were advertising Gold Seal similarity - they are 440c.  In any case I tried giving them a fair shot but have never really been able to adjust to them.  My spins went downhill (though to be fair, lack of practice has also been a big factor), and like you are saying here, I feel that the steel makes a difference.  I like that it doesn't rust and stays sharp *forever*, but it has too much bite and I can't do one-foot stops cleanly anymore and can't even do simple snowplow stops (T-stops are fine though).  I should probably try a shallower ROH sharpening.  It is intriguing that Paramount's product line has expanded and they are now offering choices of profile as well a carbon steel, and good to hear that you have found happiness with an alternate model.  I have to be honest though and say that I really miss the classic appearance of traditional blades, so I'm leaning pretty heavily towards going back to Gold Seals on my next skates.

I am curious though - if Pattern 99's have shorter stanchions than Gold Seals, then do the Paramount Pattern 99 clones also have a lower height than the Gold Seal clones?  I've always been curious about Pattern 99's profile, but don't think I would be happy with a lower height as I rub the edges of my boots on deep edges as it is.

I also had Gold Stars prior and really enjoyed the switch to Gold Seals which worked better for me.