Fitting skates off-ice - what to look for?

[sampaguita]

After much indecision on whether to get Jackson or Riedell, I might actually be going for EDEA.

I'm going to a local EDEA dealer who stocks Ice Flys and Overtures for fitting in the next few days. I read quite a few stories on this forum about skates which feel so good off-ice but hurt on-ice, and apparently a lot of the problems come from the arch and heel area.

How do you know if a pair of skates will feel good on-ice when you can only try it off-ice? I'm pretty worried about the EDEA because of its high heel, but I can't resist its lightweight features and memory foam padding.

[Sk8Dreams]

I have Edeas.  I don't think you need to worry about fit with them, because they are molded to your feet in a way entirely different than any other boots.  The entire shell is heat molded and can easily be adjusted.  I have two complaints with them.  Since I skate barefoot, the perforated lining leaves an impression on my feet.  Also, I bought the Chorus, since I don't jump and did not want to be over booted.  It doesn't have enough padding for my comfort, so I wear silipo gel sleeves, which also takes care of the impression problem.  Still, I'm strongly considering another pair of Klingbeils, because nothing beats them for comfort.

[sampaguita]

EDIT:

@Sk8Dreams: Where do you put the gel sleeves? Is it the ankle gel sleeve or the bunion gel sleeve? Thanks!

[Query]

How well your Edeas fit depends a lot on the dealer's skill. Because they don't do conventional heat molds, but require more expert manipulation of fabric shape using a heat gun, and because (last I knew) they come in fewer sizes (no half-sizes) and widths (I don't remember, but I think one width/size) as the other brands of boots, everything depends on the expertise of that dealer.

AFAIK, in the U.S., there is exactly one authorized Edea dealer. He is said to have a high level of technical expertise at reshaping Edea boots. I saw him in person. He said there are strong limits on the extent to which the boots can be resized and reshaped, and that they could not be adapted to my feet. Partly because one of my feet is halfway between two sizes, partly because my toes are substantially wider than my toes, whereas Edea assumes fairly close to uniform width heels, mid-foot and toes.

Think of trying to wrap a single piece of a fairly stiff cloth around an arbitrary complex 3D shape - really not possible. That's a close analog to the limits on reshaping and resizing Edea boots, because Edeas are made from materials like fiberglass cloth and carbon fiber cloth, held together by an adhesive resin. They can soften and manipulate the resin, and to a very small extent possibly adjust the length of the fibers. It is completely impossible to reshape or resize Edea soles.

Most boot technicians lack the expertise to adjust blade offset and alignment on Edea. That's because they don't work with Edeas much, and the mounting technique and materials are quite different than that used on rubber, leather and softer plastic outsoles, more akin to fiberglass roller skates. So if your dealer guesses wrong what offsets or alignment to use with your feet when mounting your blades, and they don't have a high level of expertise, you may be stuck with a bad mount.

On the other hand, Edea boots are fabulously light. People who get a good fit, absolutely love them, and almost never sell them used. I would have loved to be able to use them.

This info was as of about a year or more ago. Perhaps something has changed.

If your Edea dealer has that high level of expertise, maybe he fits other brands of skate boot too?

[sampaguita]

@Query: No, this dealer only sells Edea boots. Skating is a really minority sport here. We have one pro shop (who only sells Jackson and Riedell) plus maybe a couple of other dealers. AFAIK, there is only one reputable sharpener who also does blade mounting, etc. This EDEA dealer doesn't reshape EDEA boots nor does the blade mounting. I think he only does the fitting and then sells them. Nobody does EDEA heat molding here.

The only good thing is that a lot of skaters use EDEA here (in fact I was referred to the dealer by a high-level skater), so I think blade mounting should not be a problem.

Thanks for the info on the width of Edea boots. I was under the impression that the boot was something like a mold, and then you just put your foot in and bingo, you get a "custom" fit. I am sort of worried about the heel being too wide and high, but I'll be trying the boots soon. I'll let you know how the fitting turns out.

[Sk8Dreams]

I wear the ankle sleeves.  The heels are the one place that Klingbeil just could not seem to get right for me.  I have a very straight Achilles tendon, and in the Edea boots, my heel backs right up against the boot, which I really like.  I think my  boots came with instructions for molding them, and it's something you could do with a hairdryer.  I've been thinking of trying to raise the toe box on mine since I put my Kling insoles in them.

[Sk8Dreams]

AFAIK, in the U.S., there is exactly one authorized Edea dealer.

There is definitely more than one.  I bought my boots at the PSA conference in Dallas last May, from David Ripp, and he told me whom I should see in my area to have the boots molded and the blades mounted.  Both that pro shop, and one in Manhattan are authorized Edea dealers, and I'm sure there are more.

[sampaguita]

Just had Edea Overtures fitted! I was very happy with the dealer, but unfortunately, not with the boots.

Left boot felt so snug, it was the perfect fit (at least without the insoles - those insoles were really thick) -- but the right foot is a different story. I decided not to buy the Overtures because I felt painful pressure at the heel. I don't know what to call that point exactly, but here's a picture (my thumb is on the pressure point):



The dealer doesn't recommend punching or heating the boot (he says it can be done, but he doesn't recommend it). Since the boot was such a perfect fit on my left foot, I was hoping that I could do something about the right foot to make it work. Is there any way I can make the pressure disappear?

Btw, those Ice Flys really are lightweight, and they are deceptively soft. Still out of my range in terms of budget and skill, but I'd love to have one of those one day.

[Query]

Sorry my data was out of date. The Edea website still lists only one U.S. dealer - Skates-US - David Ripp's company, which in turn promises to post a dealer list some day soon.

Wouldn't it be nice if they also have an expanded number of sizes?

Edea should create a more informative web site, which explains sizing and heat molding. Sure pretty graphics are nice, but info is even better.

I would love to see a copy of Edea's instructions for heat molding! Maybe it is something we could all do, given patience and time. For example if sampaguita's heal is being pinched (I may have misunderstood) at the indicated spot, perhaps that is far enough from the sole to be within heat mold-ability - one could call Edea to find out. But of course, if the prices are only at her dream level, that's that.

[sampaguita]

The dealer is selling the Overtures with Mark IV blade on sale, so fortunately they are within my budget. :-) The only issue now is the fit.

Edea says on its website that one should NOT heat mold the skate because it would damage the boot. The padding is memory foam so body heat should be enough to mold it, but I swear my heel just feels more and more pinched as I wore the boot. (I probably wore the boot for 10 minutes.)

[Query]

BTW, Jackson lists Mark IV blades as all purpose, suitable for beginners.

Good luck.

[twokidsskatemom]

As far as I know, they do have half sizes. If you look at their chart, every other size is a half size. You can mold them yourself with a blow dryer and punch out a part of the boot that needs to be bigger.
Both my kids have  Ice flys, second pair.My son needed a insole from walmart to make the bottom feel better, my daughter loved her from the first day.
Good luck !

[sarahspins]

]
Edea says on its website that one should NOT heat mold the skate because it would damage the boot.

I think they just shouldn't be placed in a heat molding OVEN... using a hot air gun or similar (like a hair dryer) on the outside to mold them where required is a different process and it protects the materials (such as the memory foam on the inside of the boot) that would be damaged if the whole boot was exposed to heat.

Edea's essentially do have half sizes, but their sizing system is more like Risport (foot is measured in mm).

[sampaguita]

I'm sure with the Edeas that I have the right length. It's just that my right foot (the wider and shorter one) gets pinched at the heel. I don't know if it's an issue just with the boots that I tried on, or with the entire line. The dealer doesn't recommend punching nor heating (maybe it would void his warranty). I don't know if the pinching will disappear with time, though, so I didn't purchase the boots.

[Query]

If they've got half sizes now (David said no when I checked), maybe they could be made to fit me now. Cool.

If Edea doesn't advise heat molding, I'd hesitate to buy anything that hurt on the assumption I could modify it to fit. It wouldn't be at all surprising if what David Ripp did was on the edge of destroying the boot, by melting the adhesives holding it together in strategic locations, or if it didn't work with all Edea boot models. If you aren't sure, call Edea. I wonder if you have to speak Italian. You could also try calling David Ripp, and ask for advice, if it is practical to order the boots from him - but there goes your discounted price.

If you are stuck with beginner blades, you may not be happy. If I remember, you are definitely doing things that need the toe pick, and are no longer a beginner.

Where do you live? Maybe someone here knows a good fitter you could plausibly drive or fly to There must be SOMEWHERE you can go for a good fitter. I know you are trying to save money, but buying boots that won't work for you is pretty expensive too. I go to discount stores for almost everything, but skates might be an exception.

[sampaguita]

If Edea doesn't advise heat molding, I'd hesitate to buy anything that hurt on the assumption I could modify it to fit. It wouldn't be at all surprising if what David Ripp did was on the edge of destroying the boot, by melting the adhesives holding it together in strategic locations, or if it didn't work with all Edea boot models. If you aren't sure, call Edea.

I'd probably do the Edea if it were the Ice Fly. They say moldability there is great, easy break-in.

Regarding the heat molding, I think the Overtures weren't made for heat molding, otherwise, they would have advertised it then and there. The dealer said that the Overture was pretty much the same material used in Jacksons, Riedells, etc. except that the material is not heat moldable.

[Query]

As sarahspins explained, David Ripp's form of boot modification (where heat is carefully applied in specific spots with a heat gun, and the boot is then carefully hand formed at those spots) is not the conventional "heat molding" that occurs by tightly lacing the boots on your feet after you put the boots in an oven.

AFAICT from the web site, no Edea boots are designed for heat molding. It wouldn't surprise me if putting an entire Edea boot in the oven at the temperatures that other boots are molded at would turn an Edea boot into an expensive puddle.

What David Ripp does requires a higher order of skill, and may require the expertise of a person who knows just how far he can push the heat, at various spots on the boot.

[ronniev]

As far as I know, they do have half sizes. If you look at their chart, every other size is a half size. You can mold them yourself with a blow dryer and punch out a part of the boot that needs to be bigger.
Both my kids have  Ice flys, second pair.My son needed a insole from walmart to make the bottom feel better, my daughter loved her from the first day.
Good luck !

Hi there--was this easy to do? My situation is that the part around the Achilles just above the ankle feels pretty loose. Will the hair dryer method work for that?