E-X-T extra hard edge on ultima blades.

[TropicalSk8ter]

Is anyone familiar with this e-x-t hardening process that they do to these non-matrix ultima blades? Is it suppose to have fewer sharpening passes? Longer edge life.


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[irenar5]

It is true- the sharpening lasts almost twice as long. 

[jbruced]

You might gain some insight by researching austenitic stainless steel as well researching the annealling and tempering processes used in making various metal alloys. From what I can tell there might be a higher nickel % in the alloy used to make these blades, but that is speculation on my part as I could not find anything definitive.

Nickel and chromium added to carbon steels add to the toughness and corrosion resistance.

Also this specific E-X-T technology may be something similar to the properties of the ancient samurai swords. The hallmark of these swords was that they could take and hold a very keen edge and yet the blade remained flexible enough to not shatter or fracture on impact. Applying this to skate blades, it means the outside of the lower part of the blade is tempered or re-tempered with a coating of nickel to increase the toughness of the edges without making the overall blade brittle.

I'm not involved in this industry so I might be completely incorrect.

[Query]

I think elite level MK and Wilson blades use a high carbon steel as opposed to the stainless steel used in elite level Ultima blades.

Some High Carbon steels are theoretically capable of being hardened more than any stainless steel, so say some sources - though that would make them more brittle, possibly too brittle for a figure skating blade. I bet the corrosion resistance of the Ultima blades is more important. In addition, MK and Wilson use a soft nickel/chrome plating on the sides, which they grind off at the bottom of the blade, whereas Ultima uses a hardened plating which they don't grind off, so that may help Ultima's corrosion resistance too. One person thought that "EXT" refers to the hardened plating alloy, rather than the base material steel.

That logic doesn't apply to the MK and Wilson Revolution blades, because there is a non-specific statement that they use titanium-steel alloys, either in the main blade, or in a plating. Titanium in steel alloys is said to reduce corrosion too. I've never seen a Revolution blade, so I don't know whether they grind off the plating.

But all of this is from non-authoritative third party sources. The manufacturers don't say exactly what how they make blades. That's quite logical - I've heard estimates that even elite level blades only cost about $2-$5 to make. If everyone knew how to make them well, it would be hard to charge a few hundred dollars / pair for elite level blades.    Fortunately for the manufacturers, people say that metallurgy has as much proprietary black art as published science, and the equipment is expensive too. 

[TropicalSk8ter]

Query the jackson website says its only the matrix blade that are stainless steel. The non matrix are carbon steel. Thats why I asked if that was the whole purpose of the "E-X-T"  process.  Wow if it really cost $2-$5 to make a blade; i feel ripped off. Lol :-)

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[TropicalSk8ter]

jbruced Unfortuantely matrix blades stop at size 11 and im 11 1/4. :-( by a quarter ,unfortunate me. I see what you mean with the ext hardening like a samurai sword.

[nicklaszlo]

I've heard estimates that even elite level blades only cost about $2-$5 to make.

I doubt the volume  is high enough to get the price that low.  But I do think there is a high margin precisely because of the low volume.

[Query]

Query the jackson website says its only the matrix blade that are stainless steel. The non matrix are carbon steel.

Ouch. I assumed that only the mounting plate was different.

I only tried the old Matrix I blades. I loved the long edge life, though I finally gave up on them because of shape.

Does that mean that non-Matrix Ultima blade edges don't last as long?

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The $2 - $5 / blade was actually an estimate by a non-skater, based on looking at Ultima blades, who worked on fabricating metal parts for museum exhibits, who assumed most of the fabrication was done using a laser or water cutting tool (I believe Ultima says they use a laser tool; last I checked HD Sports [Mk/Wilson] didn't say), plus a minute or two of a machinists time to grind off the nickel/chrome at the bottom (for HD Sports), more or less sharpen the edges.

For HD Sports [MK/Wilson] blades, it may take extra time to separately drill the countersinks. Plus parabolic and tapered blades might take an extra minute on top of that, that he didn't take into account. Their elite level blades also have a beautiful finish and engraving - which latter might require extra steps with things like acid and photo-resist. One person who visited the factory said they take appearance and finish very seriously, and that he saw them discard a blade at the factory because it wasn't pretty enough.

But in any event, it is just an estimate. It's hard to guess what exactly processes are used to temper the runner, re-harden the edge, and plate the steel. If it is all electrochemical, all the blades can be handled in bulk, and probably isn't too expensive. If not, it could be more expensive.

It's also uncertain to what extent CNC [computer control] replaces human machinists. A laser cutter is probably CNC, but the machine tools used to sharpen and countersinks might not be.

And don't forget you need two blades/pair, which doubles the price. And blades may go through importers, distributors, and retailers - which may increase the price by a lot. Nothing is free.

In any event, if any blade manufacturer didn't allow retailers enough of a profit, retailers wouldn't sell them. Ultima has been making a lot of progress over HD Sports in large part because they allow retailers a larger profit margin. They didn't want to sell the Ultima Matrix I system (with replaceable runners) - perhaps because the replacement runners were too cheap (about $110/pair). I think the MK Pro price of about $200 is already pushing it pretty low.

So don't feel cheated by the price differential between manufacture and sales. This is a low volume business, with a slow turn-around for retailers. The sharpeners and fitters who are good at it have to spend a fair amount of time mastering their trade, and everyone, manufacturers, fitters and sharpeners included, has to invest in a lot of expensive equipment, with an uncertain return. For example, it isn't unusual for a good sharpening machine to cost over $20,000, and that doesn't include retail space rental and maintenance, nor does it include the costs retailers often have to eat when a blade breaks while they are working on it (e.g., because they try to straighten it).

[TropicalSk8ter]

Ok I feel way better about where my money goes now. Lol... I think that the E-x-t is for that reason precisely, for longer edge life. I just wonder how much longer and if it's worth it all as opposed to JW and MK carbon steel.


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