ISI vs USFSA

jenniturtle · August 19, 2011, 09:44:34 AM

This may be a dumb question but here goes. I was looking at both the ISI and USFSA classes. My daughter is going to start group lessons in USFSA FS 5. She last competed in FS1 in June and is competing FS4 in September. Will she be competing against girls skating ISI FS4 programs? There seems to be a big difference between the 2 programs. She won't start learning her Axel until FS6 where ISI starts Axel in FS5. I guess my concern is the ISI girls will be more advanced and have more of an advantage. i realize that only required elements are allowed but it just seems like they are learning more in ISI.

Skittl1321 · August 19, 2011, 10:04:31 AM

ISI FS5 is in no way equivalent to USFS FS5. They are completely different systems and do not track together. USFS freeskate levels are still considered basic skills, and to compete in those competitions you generally cannot have passed any official usfs tests, including moves. Skaters who skate both levels and skate ISI FS5 are generally at least pre-pre or preliminary in the USFS system. The USFS levels are "easier" because USFS wants to get kids into their eligible skating system (the "real" tests), for ISI, these tests are the real tests.

Your daughter can only compete in ISI competitions if she has completed and registered ISI tests. She will test up to the level her coach/skate director feels appropriate, and compete there, her USFS class will have no bearing on this.

If she is in a USFS Basic skills freestyle competition, she will only be competiting against kids in the USFS level. If those kids also skate ISI, my guess is they would be closer to ISI FS3 for USFS FS5.

I don't think they are learning MORE in ISI, just that they are learning different things.

hopskipjump · August 19, 2011, 02:37:31 PM

They aren't similar!

Dd is open silver with isi (she stopped the numbers after fs3 I think) and also "lutz level" with USFSA She will be prepre in October. She has her prepre mif/pre mif and will also test the next mif at the same time as her prepre fs.

isakswings · August 19, 2011, 03:48:28 PM

Quote from: Skittl1321 on August 19, 2011, 10:04:31 AM
ISI FS5 is in no way equivalent to USFS FS5. They are completely different systems and do not track together. USFS freeskate levels are still considered basic skills, and to compete in those competitions you generally cannot have passed any official usfs tests, including moves.

Basic Skills skaters can take moves and still compete in the basic skills levels. They just can't have passed the freeskate tests. My daughter and other skaters I know took pre-pre moves while still in the basic skills levels.... in fact a few other skaters(not mine) took their preliminary moves before moving on to pre-pre. As far as I know, it is perfectly acceptable to do that....

isakswings · August 19, 2011, 03:50:22 PM

Quote from: hopskipjump on August 19, 2011, 02:37:31 PM
They aren't similar!

Dd is open silver with isi (she stopped the numbers after fs3 I think) and also "lutz level" with USFSA She will be prepre in October. She has her prepre mif/pre mif and will also test the next mif at the same time as her prepre fs.

What is 'lutz level'? My daughter has been competing for 3 years and I have never heard that one before. She skates USFSA...

Skittl1321 · August 19, 2011, 04:19:44 PM

Quote from: isakswings on August 19, 2011, 03:48:28 PM
Basic Skills skaters can take moves and still compete in the basic skills levels. They just can't have passed the freeskate tests. My daughter and other skaters I know took pre-pre moves while still in the basic skills levels.... in fact a few other skaters(not mine) took their preliminary moves before moving on to pre-pre. As far as I know, it is perfectly acceptable to do that....

This must depend on the competition. Almost every announcement I have seen says NO USFS tests, including moves or any dances.

Usually though, kids who are still in the freeskate levels skate "no test" (or skate up to pre-pre), not in the basic skills competitions for their level. The level competitions are too limiting, as most kids in the Freeskate levels are also working on other skills and would rather skate in the "real" competition, not the basic skills one.

dak_rbb · August 19, 2011, 04:57:29 PM

Quote from: isakswings on August 19, 2011, 03:50:22 PM
What is 'lutz level'? My daughter has been competing for 3 years and I have never heard that one before. She skates USFSA...

Lutz level is no-test with the highest jump being the Lutz. Competitions in our area usually divide no-test into two levels: toe loop (salchow and toe loop are the highest jumps) and Lutz level. These aren't official USFS levels--they're defined in the competition announcement.

hopskipjump · August 19, 2011, 05:30:08 PM

Yup! Here at every comp it's called something different so everyone just calls it "lutz level". Dd needs a clean Axel before doing prepre. It's getting there but needs to be bigger and more consistent. She also needs more footwork work. Next season for sure!

isakswings · August 19, 2011, 06:25:54 PM

Quote from: Skittl1321 on August 19, 2011, 04:19:44 PM
This must depend on the competition. Almost every announcement I have seen says NO USFS tests, including moves or any dances.

Usually though, kids who are still in the freeskate levels skate "no test" (or skate up to pre-pre), not in the basic skills competitions for their level. The level competitions are too limiting, as most kids in the Freeskate levels are also working on other skills and would rather skate in the "real" competition, not the basic skills one.

Yes, she was skating in the freeskate levels. Not the lowest levels(basic 1-8). she was Freeskate 1 or 2 I think. We catagorize the freeskate levels in the basic skills division of competition here...

What you said makes sense now.

isakswings · August 19, 2011, 06:27:22 PM

Quote from: dak_rbb on August 19, 2011, 04:57:29 PM
Lutz level is no-test with the highest jump being the Lutz. Competitions in our area usually divide no-test into two levels: toe loop (salchow and toe loop are the highest jumps) and Lutz level. These aren't official USFS levels--they're defined in the competition announcement.

Ahhh. Ok. Here non-test is basically pre-pre w/o an axel. Same elements just no axels.

Clarice · August 19, 2011, 07:58:24 PM

According to the USFS web site, Snowplow Sam and Basic 1-8 skaters may not have passed any official USFS tests, including Moves in the Field or individual dances, in order to be eligible for Basic Skills competitions. The web site doesn't state those restrictions for Free Skate 1 - 6 skaters, so presumably they may have passed Moves or dance tests and can still be eligible.

isakswings · August 19, 2011, 11:12:37 PM

Yeah the skaters here who passed pre-pre moves were in the freeskate levels of basic skills.

I can see why basic 1-8 can't have passed them.

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ISI vs USFSA