How many hours of lessons and ice time is appropriate?

[isakswings]

I know answers will vary depending on the skaters level, their drive and of coarse financial and other restraints, but I am curious what most skaters are doing and what  coaches reccomend?

For example: my daughter skates pre-pre w/ axel. She has passed up to her prelim moves and is working on pre-juv moves. She skates 4 days a week and for 2 hours each time she skates. Sometimes she skates for 2 hours straight while other times she skates 1 hour in the morning or afternoon and 1 hour in the late afternoon/evening. She skates about 8 hours a week. She takes one 45 minute off ice class a week and has 2 lessons with her private coach(totalling 1hr to 1 hr 15 min depending on the week). She also takes one 15 min dance/moves lesson a week with another coach. We often bump up to 3 lessons with the primary coach when dd is getting ready for a competition or test. In our area, many of the skaters at her level are also taking lessons with a jump coach. We've been wanting to do this, but we were holding off mostly due to financial reasons. Due to dd's current struggles with her axel, she had her first lesson with the jump coach yesterday. Until seeing the jump coach working with her, I did not get why it would be necessary to have different coaches focusing on different skills. Yesterday it became very clear as to why this is necessary once a skater reaches a certain level. Because I am now seeing the light(lol!), we are rearranging some things to make it possible for dd to have lessons with the jump coach. I cannot afford for her to have a weekly lesson, but we can handle twice a month. My daughter is also willing to do odd jobs for friends and family to help pay for these lessons. That will be an extra hour of lesson time a month, focusing exclusively on jumps. I would like dd to continue with the dance coach, but we cannot afford her and the jump coach. Dd enjoys her time with the dance coach so I hope we can eventually resume lessons with her too. At this point in time, since dd is skating competitively, we have decided having jumps lessons is a better way to spend our money. I am sorry for rambling...  back to my original question: how many hours of ice time and lesson time is approrpriate for a skater at my daughter's level? Beyond possibly adding in a ballet or yoga(or pilates) class, this is about all we can do. When I type it out, it seems like a a lot. Dd's coach and I were talking yesterday and she agrees that the amount of time dd spends on the ice, is good for a pre-pre skater. As she advances, she will need to spend more time on the ice. Hopefully we can up that time once she moves up to the preliminary level. Any opinions on this topic?

[Clarice]

For a competitive skater, I follow the rule  "one half hour ice time for each half rotation".  If your daughter is doing all single jumps plus axel, that means 13 half rotations (3 for the axel, 2 each for lutz, flip, loop, salchow, toe loop) or 6 1/2 hours of ice time per week.  Sounds like you're doing just fine.

[Sierra]

That's about perfect for that level. I would be cautious about dropping the moves/dance, though, unless her primary coach is just as good with moves. I admire your determination to get every ounce of ice/lessons in for your daughter. Perhaps not doing the 1hr/morning and 1hr/afternoon and instead doing 2hrs all in one go would save some gas money.

For a competitive skater, I follow the rule  "one half hour ice time for each half rotation".  If your daughter is doing all single jumps plus axel, that means 13 half rotations (3 for the axel, 2 each for lutz, flip, loop, salchow, toe loop) or 6 1/2 hours of ice time per week.  Sounds like you're doing just fine.

Is that for jumps that are actually in a program or all jumps that are being regularly worked on? I worked in my singles and a couple of doubles and got 12.5 hours.. which is not going to happen.

[Sk8tmum]

How old is your daughter? There are guidelines that are based on age,not just skating level, as different levels of physical maturation dictate how much is safe, and what they should be doing in terms of jumping, training cycles, and peaks. Also, is this a "year round" cycle, or does she have an actual training cycle with scheduled blocks of time off? 

[Sk8tmum]

Actually, you might (if you have time) review the Skate Canada guidelines for training.  They have spent quite a few years on developing this model; I understand that there are similar guidelines in the USA.  There is a lot of info in here in terms of goals, training windows, periodization (training cycles) etc, and the rationale behind their recommendations.

Philosophically, I agree with a lot of their points, however,  would add in that if the kid is training to the point where they are physically exhausted and/or overwhelmed, it need to be backed off. Of if they are losing their social life and/or school is suffering.  I've also seen a lot of overuse injuries on kids who train and train without a break. 

http://skatecanada.ca/portals/2/en/skate_for_life/ltad/LTAD_Eng/index.html

[Clarice]

Is that for jumps that are actually in a program or all jumps that are being regularly worked on? I worked in my singles and a couple of doubles and got 12.5 hours.. which is not going to happen.

It's for jumps that are actually being worked on, but you only count the highest level jump of each of the 6 types that you do.  So, if you do an axel, you don't count the waltz jump.  If you do double salchow, you don't count the single salchow.  If you do two different doubles, say salchow and toe loop, you'd get 4 half rotations for each of those, 3 half rotations for your axel, and 2 half rotations each for your single loop, flip, and lutz.  That's a total of 17 half rotations, or 8-9 hours weekly.  I feel your pain with trying to get in that much time.  At the height of my daughter's competitive career, and she really wasn't all that competitive, she was doing about 14 hours of training a week.

[jumpingbeansmom]

My dd is 10 and she skates juvenile and will also skate up with intermediate short this coming competition season.    She skates 5 days a week for 2 hours a day during the school year and takes 5 half hour lessons per week.   She has all doubles and is working on double axel as well as many double double combinations.  She also takes off ice class 2x or so a week and ballet once a week. 

[jjane45]

Great tip Clarice!

[Clarice]

Great tip Clarice!

I learned it from someone on the former incarnation of this board! 

[isakswings]

How old is your daughter? There are guidelines that are based on age,not just skating level, as different levels of physical maturation dictate how much is safe, and what they should be doing in terms of jumping, training cycles, and peaks. Also, is this a "year round" cycle, or does she have an actual training cycle with scheduled blocks of time off? 

She does skate year-round BUT she does have breaks. She is 12 years old. She doesn't have a training schedule persay... we just take breaks when we have vacations or feel the need to do so. She does not skate Mondays because she has classes she attends(school).

[isakswings]

That's about perfect for that level. I would be cautious about dropping the moves/dance, though, unless her primary coach is just as good with moves. I admire your determination to get every ounce of ice/lessons in for your daughter. Perhaps not doing the 1hr/morning and 1hr/afternoon and instead doing 2hrs all in one go would save some gas money.

It would be nice to keep her sessions in blocks but unfotunately, we have to seperate it some, due to coaching availability. The jump coach, coaches at a different rink so she skated an hour there and then had a lesson with her primary coach at her home rink later that same day. Hence... the split skating time. As for dropping dance/moves... yes her coach is good with moves. She has actually taught dd her moves and the dance/moves coach has helped work on moves that need extra attention (ie: back circle 8's). We started with the dance coach to work on edges and arms in addition to having new skills to learn.

[isakswings]

Actually, you might (if you have time) review the Skate Canada guidelines for training.  They have spent quite a few years on developing this model; I understand that there are similar guidelines in the USA.  There is a lot of info in here in terms of goals, training windows, periodization (training cycles) etc, and the rationale behind their recommendations.

Philosophically, I agree with a lot of their points, however,  would add in that if the kid is training to the point where they are physically exhausted and/or overwhelmed, it need to be backed off. Of if they are losing their social life and/or school is suffering.  I've also seen a lot of overuse injuries on kids who train and train without a break. 

http://skatecanada.ca/portals/2/en/skate_for_life/ltad/LTAD_Eng/index.html

Thanks! She definately has time to spend with friends. She definately is not training to the point of exaustion. I mean, she comes off the ice tired but that is typically after a 2 hour stretch of skating. I wouldn't classify it as exuastion though. She just gets tired after skating for 2+ hours.

[isakswings]

For a competitive skater, I follow the rule  "one half hour ice time for each half rotation".  If your daughter is doing all single jumps plus axel, that means 13 half rotations (3 for the axel, 2 each for lutz, flip, loop, salchow, toe loop) or 6 1/2 hours of ice time per week.  Sounds like you're doing just fine.

Thanks! Yes, she can land all single jumps and axel(most of the time.... lol!).