I'm ready to say goodbye to the callouses on the outsides of my pinkies. My girls will be 10 in January, for goodness' sake! Honestly a lot of days I don't even mind tying their skates, but it's inconvenient and time-consuming (four boots every time!) and really they should be able to do it themselves by now. One of them was actually doing pretty well until this summer when she got new, stiffer boots. They've been tying their own sneakers since they were 5, but they both complain that they can't get their laces tight enough when it comes to skates, and I do understand it's harder. Are there any great tricks I am overlooking that can help them? Or is it just like skating--practice and get it wrong a million times first? :P
Would a lace hook help?
My kid couldn't tie hers either until we went to Edea skates. Now she has no trouble, but I think it is the lacing pattern. As she pulls, the laces lock into the skates differently so she doesn't have to maintain tension on the laces to keep them tight as she works her way up. Then her skate tech showed her how to use the hooks above where she is lacing for leverage as she pulls up. My fingers are much happier. :D
One pair of skates was a pain to tie, I can't image two!
Somewhere....perhaps on the Icoachskating FB page....I saw a video of a coach showing his skaters how to tie their skates. He does do a good trick with using the upper hooks to get leverage and make at least the laces over the hook tighter. I'll see if I can find the video and send a link.
I remember using a lace hook when I was younger. It deffo helps, but it's very easy to get the skates too tight (hello circulation loss).
Be glad your girls aren't patching- after a certain level you needed patch-specific blades. So you had to change your skates within the 15 minute zam run after a freestyle or dance session... and in even less time if the patch session was before free! :o
Quote from: Loops on December 08, 2015, 12:54:03 PM
Somewhere....perhaps on the Icoachskating FB page....I saw a video of a coach showing his skaters how to tie their skates. He does do a good trick with using the upper hooks to get leverage and make at least the laces over the hook tighter. I'll see if I can find the video and send a link.
It was Christ Conte. I adopted his method to a degree. You still need some strength.
I've had some fun with this: http://icedoesntcare.blogspot.com/2015/09/the-american-figure-skater-boot-tying.html
As a rink guard who tries to be conscientious, I re-tie a lot of laces. A lot of kids have never tied shoes. A lot of parents don't know how, either. To make it worse, our rink rents cheap skates, maybe 15 or 20 or more years old, which aren't stiff enough if you don't tie really, really tight.
An amazing number of people, including parents, have never tied a bow tie - they often use square knots and granny knots instead. Sometimes my fingers aren't nimble enough to untie those. :(
I look at the laces when they come onto the ice, and almost any time someone looks like they are having trouble. I also tell them that if they can push a finger under the lace, it's way too loose. But a lot don't believe me. Then, when it hurts (because something rubs against their skin), they decide it is too tight, and make it even looser. :o
My hints:
If you use waxed laces (more common on hockey skates), they don't slip back. Alas, we don't use them on our figure skates.
For my own boots, I now use round nylon utility cord (http://www.rei.com/product/799630/pmi-3mm-utility-cord-package-of-50-ft), of a diameter (3mm for my skates) large enough that it doesn't slip back in my lace holes. I wrap the lace around the whole hand (including the pinkie) to get a better grip, and I pull each level across (not up!). The big round laces bite less into my hand, and the whole hand wrap is a lot easier on the fingers.
Before I had slip resistant laces, I used to use one set of fingers to cover the prior level holes to prevent slippage while I pulled the next one tight.
I tried lace hooks. Works very well, but I don't really need it that tight. :)
The hardest part is not losing too much tension as I tie the bow tie. I've tried two methods of tying the bow tie. The one everyone teaches (the loop, around, and through method), and tying it as a double slipped granny knot (which is what a bow tie really is) - i.e., after tying the initial overhand (wrapping the two ends around each other and pulling tight), I grab the two ends as loops, and tie a second overhand knot with those loops. Either way, I turn it into a double knot so it won't slip.
If there is enough extra lace, I first wrap it around the lower hooks again to get more pressure on the ankle. I never wrap the lace behind the skates, because if you bend your ankle, that stretches the lace and eventually loosens it - though hockey skates are stiff enough that might not matter for them.
Well, I have an entirely different take. Enjoy these moments. Savor these moments. Cherish these moments. Treasure these moments. Store these moments deep in your long-term memory. Little girls grow up right quick. All too soon they'll outgrow mommy and daddy, and you'll be longing nostalgically for the moments when you were tying their laces. That's the perspective of a dad whose little girl just got engaged. Oh well, maybe one day I'll be tying the laces for my granddaughter. :blush:
I just want to say that when I switched to nylon laces I adopted a lace puller and that thing was totally f*g worthless. I'm a grown woman and they were awkward and designed for the meaty hand of a grown man playing hockey. My hands are small enough to wear children's gloves and I couldn't get the things to work. I don't think any child could (I've read complaints by hockey parents too). The lace puller guys need to make them to fit kids hands.
My solution was to buy a pair of baseball gloves at Five and Below, and cut the tips of the fingers off. I could then sort the laces out using my exposed finger tips, then slip the leather covered first joint under the laces and pull with those. It's possible it isn't that kids aren't strong enough, but that the laces hurt, so that giving the fingers some protection and purchase, the child may be able to pull better.
Eventually I got to the point where the nylon laces didn't bother me, so I ditched the gloves. That took about two weeks.
Quote from: tstop4me on December 09, 2015, 02:53:02 PM
Well, I have an entirely different take. Enjoy these moments. Savor these moments. Cherish these moments. Treasure these moments. Store these moments deep in your long-term memory. Little girls grow up right quick. All too soon they'll outgrow mommy and daddy, and you'll be longing nostalgically for the moments when you were tying their laces. That's the perspective of a dad whose little girl just got engaged. Oh well, maybe one day I'll be tying the laces for my granddaughter. :blush:
Aww, don't make me cry! Like I said, sometimes I don't mind doing it, but it's becoming impractical a lot of times. Especially with synchro when they have a short window to go from off-ice to on-ice. And even if I stop tying skates, they still like to snuggle and read with me in bed before they go to sleep every night. :-)
I have no idea how to even use a lace-puller, but it sounds like maybe that's moot, given AgnesNitt's comment. I will have to look into that mythical skate-tying machine! Perfection!
Quote from: tstop4me on December 09, 2015, 02:53:02 PM
Oh well, maybe one day I'll be tying the laces for my granddaughter. :blush:
I told my daughter when she had my granddaughter that when she turned three we were starting skating lessons. She turned two last week. I have a year to go and can't wait! Softec makes a pink sparkly skate that will be her first pair.
Quote from: twinskaters on December 09, 2015, 05:51:23 PM
I have no idea how to even use a lace-puller, but it sounds like maybe that's moot, given AgnesNitt's comment. I will have to look into that mythical skate-tying machine! Perfection!
I swear, the gloves will work.
Quote from: AgnesNitt on December 09, 2015, 08:57:17 PM
I swear, the gloves will work.
Yes! I meant to say I filed that idea away for when I can get to a store and find some gloves like that. It makes sense that it may be more an issue of tender fingers than strength. They do have the softest little hands ever. :-)
Quote from: twinskaters on December 09, 2015, 05:51:23 PM
Aww, don't make me cry! Like I said, sometimes I don't mind doing it, but it's becoming impractical a lot of times. Especially with synchro when they have a short window to go from off-ice to on-ice. And even if I stop tying skates, they still like to snuggle and read with me in bed before they go to sleep every night. :-)
OK. I'm convinced you're a loving mom. :)
If a primary concern is the laces cutting into your fingers, then the choice of laces makes a difference. Here is a summary of my personal experiences. I'm limiting this discussion to laces commercially sold specifically as figure skating laces. (I've also played around with makeshift laces and with laces designed for other applications.)
(a) Nylon laces are very durable and relatively impervious to water. But they are hard to keep tied down. And, most importantly for you, they cut into your fingers the most (of all the laces I've tried).
(b) Many moons ago, when I carped about my nylon laces coming undone, a coach recommended her favorite: all-cotton laces. They stay tied down the best (of all the laces I've tried). However, they have very poor wet strength. Even a few drops of water on them, and they go ker-snap when you tug on them. There usually is water on the floor around the benches, and it's difficult to keep long laces from trailing onto the floor and getting wet as I lace up.
(c) Riedell makes (or has made at various times) a variety of laces, including nylon, all cotton, and a cotton/polyester blend. The cotton/polyester blend is my current favorite. It's durable, doesn't snap when wet, and stays tied down well. For you, however, I would recommend the Jackson laces. It's all polyester, I believe. It's also durable, doesn't snap when wet, and stays tied down well. However, it's slighter wider than the Riedell laces, and has a softer finish than the Riedell laces ... a greater width and a softer finish result in cutting your fingers less. <<I prefer the Riedell over the Jackson because I like the harder finish. But my Jackson boots came with Jackson laces, of course, and I used their laces for almost a year (skating about 5 times a week) before I retired them. They didn't snap, but were starting to fray at spots. But note I tend to be careful with my laces: I take care not to snag them across the toe picks and blade edges.>>
I have my own pet method of tying laces tight while reducing the wear-and-tear on my fingers. But it would be difficult to explain in words, I'm afraid. I also don't care for lace hooks (strictly a personal preference).
I've tried jackson laces on Harlicks boots. Not a happy combination--the Jackson laces were too fat for the Harlick's lace holes. My limited experience is the laces have to fit the lace holes, and the lace holes aren't all a standard shape or size.
They're actually skating in Jacksons, but the laces are kind of thin and honestly a little tricky for me to use comfortably. Also they're in the same boot, same size, and one has laces waaaaay longer than the other, which is quite odd. Their old Jacksons did have nice wide laces that didn't slip so much while tying. I should look for those, now that my memory is jogged.
I'll also throw in a rec for the Riedell laces for all the reasons Tstopforme gives. They are my favorites, and I buy them in multiples whenever I find them. I've never tried Jackson laces. I have tried Risports though, and although they feel similar to the Riedell ones, they cut into my poor little fingers.......
When I teach skaters/parents to lace up, I offer three tips that help a lot:
1) As you tighten the laces, eyelet pair by eyelet pair, place your thumb over the tightened, crossed laces. Keeps them from loosening up as you move up to the next pair of eyelets.
2) Tie a half-knot above the eyelets to lock in the tightness. (Helps if hooks come untied while skating - only have to retie the hook section.)
3) Hook from the top to the bottom instead of coming up from underneath. It holds the tension and helps keep them tied.
For too-long laces, go around the hooks twice to pick up the extra lace. Much better than the ankle wrap technique.
Quote from: twinskaters on December 10, 2015, 10:33:57 AM
They're actually skating in Jacksons, but the laces are kind of thin and honestly a little tricky for me to use comfortably. Also they're in the same boot, same size, and one has laces waaaaay longer than the other, which is quite odd. Their old Jacksons did have nice wide laces that didn't slip so much while tying. I should look for those, now that my memory is jogged.
I think they are not the original laces.
Quote from: twinskaters on December 08, 2015, 10:49:58 AM
Or is it just like skating--practice and get it wrong a million times first? :P
You have to practice until you get some calluses.
Quote from: nicklaszlo on December 10, 2015, 07:33:55 PM
I think they are not the original laces.
That thought hadn't occurred to me. Ugh. That would explain them being different lengths. But they were two pairs ordered at the same time. Why would the fitter (who is very well-known and used by most of the coaches here) take the original ones off and replace them?! It just seems crazy.
FigureSpins, everything you said is exactly how I tie their skates (and mine)! So at least if they're watching me, they're absorbing something useful.
Quote from: nicklaszlo on December 10, 2015, 07:34:55 PM
You have to practice until you get some calluses.
Sadly, this is true.
I have gel sleeves that I wear around my ankles (gift from the skating gods). They make them in skinny diameters for fingers and toes. I've been seriously considering getting some, and putting it around my pinkies. I crank down HARD on my laces, and break through my calluses sometimes. Anyone tried this? The tubes on pinkies thing, not breaking through your calluses ;)
Quote from: twinskaters on December 10, 2015, 09:21:53 PM
take the original ones off and replace them?!
My Risports came without laces installed.
Quote from: nicklaszlo on December 11, 2015, 08:29:31 AM
My Risports came without laces installed.
All skates do! In the shop, they're only laced up if they've been tried on before.
Quote from: Loops on December 11, 2015, 11:58:58 AM
All skates do! In the shop, they're only laced up if they've been tried on before.
... or if the shop believes in customer service and installs laces so try on is fast and easy. Happens more with boots that were ordered (not in stock) that need try ons before the blades are mounted.
Years ago, I had asked a clerk if he was inventorying the many boxes of skates behind the counter. He said no, they were new stock and he had to put the laces in so that browsing customers wouldn't misplace the laces. (I think he was implying that they'd be pilfered.) That shop just stacked the boxes up against a wall for customers to go through when searching for the right size, like a discount shoe store vs. a high-end shoe store. Most shops bring skates out for a supervised try on to eliminate mixups (mis-matched skates, wrong box, etc.) but this one was self-serve.
Quote from: nicklaszlo on December 10, 2015, 07:34:55 PM
You have to practice until you get some calluses.
I don't think I have calluses. Wrapping the laces around the hands, rather than holding the lace between fingers alone, helps a lot.
So does using as large a diameter
round lace as I can. The 3mm nylon cord I linked to before,
http://www.rei.com/product/799630/pmi-3mm-utility-cord-package-of-50-ft
doesn't have ends to pull through holes - but because they are nylon, you can melt and roll the ends with a match or other heat source until they do. (Not with your bare fingers - hot!) And $5 for 50' (enough for 2 pairs of boots) is acceptable. It doesn't come in white, black, tan or pink, but you can find other nylon "utility cord" or "parachute cord" that does. Though, as some people mentioned, not all lace holes are the same size.
If you do use flat lace, it helps
a lot to use the widest lace you can - e.g., hockey lace, if it will fit.
And it is extremely important that you don't let flat lace twist, because pulling hard on twisted cord is like pulling on very thin cord, which increases the pressure and abrasion on the skin.
But maybe a lady or girl with very delicate skin won't find these things sufficient?
Quote from: FigureSpins on December 11, 2015, 12:18:49 PM
... or if the shop believes in customer service and installs laces so try on is fast and easy. Happens more with boots that were ordered (not in stock) that need try ons before the blades are mounted.
Years ago, I had asked a clerk if he was inventorying the many boxes of skates behind the counter. He said no, they were new stock and he had to put the laces in so that browsing customers wouldn't misplace the laces. (I think he was implying that they'd be pilfered.) That shop just stacked the boxes up against a wall for customers to go through when searching for the right size, like a discount shoe store vs. a high-end shoe store. Most shops bring skates out for a supervised try on to eliminate mixups (mis-matched skates, wrong box, etc.) but this one was self-serve.
This, I believe. My skate shop in the US had laces in everything I tried on when I was there last. Can't remember how it was when I was a kid. And he has an impressive stock given that it's just him and his wife! Over here, I had to spend a good portion of time putting laces in to try things on on, every one of the 7 or 8 pairs, in fact. The clerk did help me out though. Neither shop is really self serve, but the second shop does have the inventory piled up against the walls, whereas my US shop he manages everything.
But still I think they arrive unlaced, so that could explain why the OP had different length laces in the two pairs of boots.
I kid you people not, I am at the rink right now, tied one kid's skates, and turned around to see the other just finishing tying hers. Another problem solved simply by posting about it?! Maybe not entirely. She says she only did it because "I couldn't see you." (I was really invisible crouched next to her sister?) But now I know she can do it, so she'll do it more. :-)
I was ordered by coach to "stop" tying laces as, at comps, parents aren't allowed in dressing rooms. So, we had them tie their own. However, I will say that it was a bit of a disaster at first. I'm good at lacing skates; I got "trained" by a coach on how to do it, and have strong fingers and callouses. When my kids took over lacing their own, they ended up with them being too loose on the foot and too tight on the ankle, and there was a fair bit of time spent off the ice as their coach made them relace them to make it correct. Eventually, they did get it, but it took time, and their coach did have to check them regularly to make sure they were done right.
In terms of laces, I found the best ones for my DD were the Jackson ones with the rhinestones on the toes (and the Jackson ones without too, but, they weren't as much fun for the 8 year old she was then.). They held the best, and were the easiest on small fingers.
Ooh good tip on the rhinestones. I will look for those because yeah, who wouldn't want rhinestone laces?
Right now we are at a place where they tie them if I am not around and we aren't in a rush. But when we get to the rink in the morning we are usually in a hurry and I am faster, so I do it. Which is not really ideal but they're learning new programs to compete in one month and I really don't want to lose ice time so I can make my lace-tying stand! I see the light at the end of the tunnel, and that is good enough for now!
Quote from: twinskaters on December 30, 2015, 10:54:58 PM
Ooh good tip on the rhinestones. I will look for those because yeah, who wouldn't want rhinestone laces?
Right now we are at a place where they tie them if I am not around and we aren't in a rush. But when we get to the rink in the morning we are usually in a hurry and I am faster, so I do it. Which is not really ideal but they're learning new programs to compete in one month and I really don't want to lose ice time so I can make my lace-tying stand! I see the light at the end of the tunnel, and that is good enough for now!
Not a parent, but I read the following tip on Xanboni (how I miss her regular posts)
Have the kids practice lacing the boots at home.
I add. Time them. or if there's 2, make it a race. Over and over.
Quote from: AgnesNitt on December 31, 2015, 07:41:00 AM
Not a parent, but I read the following tip on Xanboni (how I miss her regular posts)
Have the kids practice lacing the boots at home.
I add. Time them. or if there's 2, make it a race. Over and over.
I miss her regular posts, too! And practicing at home is such a simple but smart idea. Not sure why it didn't occur to me before.
I can't make them race, though. They're competitive enough with each other! :-)
Is Xanboni no longer blogging?
Quote from: FigureSpins on December 31, 2015, 04:31:18 PM
Is Xanboni no longer blogging?
Not on the regular basis she used to. It's every few months now.