Seems like quite some time since somebody posted test results. I'm curious about the new MITF tests. Has anyone taken one yet? Perhaps you've seen or heard something? I'm wondering how the judges are responding to the new moves. Any feedback would be much appreciated. Thanks!
We had a very small test session recently, but only one moves test - a Pre-Preliminary, so nothing was different.
I'm taking Prelim sometime- don't know when. I've already learned the swing roll-mohawk for the crossover pattern and I had taken figure classes before so the FO-FI figure isn't a big deal.
But why does the figure need to be 3 times the skater's height? Because now my circle is HUGE.
We had a November session planned but only two people signed up. And soo many people crammed for the sessions held in August and very early September. Just shows the attitude toward the new moves, I guess.
My coach is having me take Pre-pre and Prelim moves in the same session, since the Nov. one cancelled. So now I'm going to be a wreck testing Pre-pre since I'll HAVE to pass it to avoid wasting money.
Sierra, I don't know what you mean by huge, but just to clarify, it's the entire figure that needs to be about 3 times your height, not just one circle. If you're about 5 feet tall and stand on the dot at the center of a hockey circle, your figure 8 will extend about out to that circle. In other words, both circles fit inside the hockey circle. Does that make sense? If that's not what you're talking about, never mind! :)
My daughter is working on both the new supplemental moves tests, and will probably take them in January. I'll report back then.
I am currently working on the new Senior moves. Not too many changes at this level. Once I got the steps down, the Serpentine pattern has become kinda fun to do :) Soon, I will shift into "moves mode" to start really working on things to get them ready to test. Right now, I'm in "freestyle mode" since we just got done choreographing my intermediate test program and are working really hard on fixing my jumps. Doing those drills is taking some time to make sure I don't go back to my bad habits.
My club had a test session Monday night, but all the MIF tests were Pre-Pre except for 1 Pre-Juv. It was a retry. She put her foot down on one of the BI 3-turns and I think it threw her off for the rest of the test. Her back circle 8 wasn't very good - the second circle on each (BO and BI) was smaller than the first, and she was pretty much at a standstill by the time she finished the 2nd BI circle. I was helping out, xeroxing papers, and I saw some comments about circles being unequal size and subcurves (she was wobbly on the BI edge).
Our next test session is in January, and we may have a (new) Senior Moves test go out.
Quote from: Clarice on November 03, 2010, 03:09:52 PM
Sierra, I don't know what you mean by huge, but just to clarify, it's the entire figure that needs to be about 3 times your height, not just one circle. If you're about 5 feet tall and stand on the dot at the center of a hockey circle, your figure 8 will extend about out to that circle. In other words, both circles fit inside the hockey circle. Does that make sense? If that's not what you're talking about, never mind! :)
Not so - each circle needs to be about 3 times your height. So a five foot person should have a circle that is about 15 feet in diameter - take a look at the diagram in the book and you will see how the circles should look in relation to the width of the rink.
It is easier to do a small circle of course - the blade will just carry you around - so the larger circle really makes you have to think about your positions all the way around the circle and you have to learn how to get enough speed through the circle to get all the way around.
I will be attending my first test session on Monday where we get to judge the "New Moves" - there is one Senior MITF and 2 Junior and I believe a couple of Intermediates and Novice - I will need to trial judge the Junior and Senior and hopefully get to judge the Novice and below - exciting!!! (and challenging - I have learned the Junior Step Sequence (albeit mostly two-footed) but that Senior one is confusing to me still - must learn it by next week in order to trial judge it!!
We are having our first test session next month. It will be interesting to see what the standard is for the new moves. If anyone can share any thoughts on this, it would be widely appreciated I'm sure. DD is taking Senior, but probably not until Jan or Feb
QuoteNot so - each circle needs to be about 3 times your height. So a five foot person should have a circle that is about 15 feet in diameter - take a look at the diagram in the book and you will see how the circles should look in relation to the width of the rink.
The PSA Moves book shows it clearly and has the same notation from the Judges' school remarks.
Quote from: USFSA Rulebook5. Forward circle eight
The skater will push from a standing start onto a FO edge and complete one FO figure eight. Upon returning to center at the completion of the second circle, the skater will perform a FI figure eight by pushing onto a FI edge, thereby repeating the previously skated circle.
The circles should be equal in size and approximately three times the skater's height. The skater may mark their center. This move may start on either foot. Focus: Edge quality and continuous flow
If the center is mid-way across a blue hockey line, the outer edges of the circles will come pretty close to the hockey dots on either side for someone around 5' tall. Each circle has to be around 15' in diameter. You can side-step to measure - each side-step is usually around 2' wide.
momsk8er - we're all dying to know about the Preliminary crossover circle transition with the swing roll-edge change-mohawk. Is anyone testing that and if so, would you share your view from the judges' side of the fence after the session, please?
Argh, that's what I get for trying to answer questions when I'm not quite awake. My measurements may be off, but I'm still right about the placement on the hockey circle. If you start on the center dot, each circle will go out approximately to the big circle. I was remembering somebody a while back who thought that each circle had to be the size of the hockey circle.
You're right about the edges and the circle. The center faceoff circle does line up within the square formed by those hockey dots. Our faceoff dot is hard to see - it's blurry and almost the same color as the critter "chewing" on it, lol. I assume Preliminary will be double-paneled, so each skater gets half-ice, so I never thought about teaching it from the center. The end circles were a disaster - they just followed them to the edge of the rink, which was fine for the crossovers, but too big for the circle patterns. I'll give your place a try; I like to keep my kids challenged and ready to deal with any last-minute adjustments.
I teach this pattern with a blue hockey line as the figure's axis. It gives the skater a visual diameter and an easy-to-spot center once they've marked it on the line. I find it easier to see whether it's really properly shaped. (Says the queen of the egg figures!)
Unless the skater has unusually short or long arms, I've found that they can "spot" the edges of circle patterns when they indicate their axis. Standing on center, shoulders over hips, they raise their arms to around shoulder height and look down their arms. The horizon point where their fingers seem to "touch" the ice is usually the "3 times their height" outer circle edge. Since their arms are proportionate to their body, it works pretty much every time I've checked the measurement. It helps the skater look ahead to the next part of their circle.
Quote from: Isk8NYC on November 04, 2010, 05:46:01 AMUnless the skater has unusually short or long arms, I've found that they can "spot" the edges of circle patterns when they indicate their axis. Standing on center, shoulders over hips, they raise their arms to around shoulder height and look down their arms. The horizon point where their fingers seem to "touch" the ice is usually the "3 times their height" outer circle edge. Since their arms are proportionate to their body, it works pretty much every time I've checked the measurement. It helps the skater look ahead to the next part of their circle.
That's what my coach had me do. When standing in between the hockey circles at the end, my fingertips reach to a little beyond the hockey dot in the middle of the circle. Really the only thing I need is more speed, so I'm not crawling back to the center.
I like the idea of the figures being put in the MITF. A couple months ago, I took 16 weeks of figure classes and was very good at it. Waltz-8 perfectly timed, no toe pushes whatsoever, nice 'figure hands.' The only figure that gave me any real trouble was the backward circle 8 >:( Hopefully my Pre-juv test is far off in the future.
Quote from: Isk8NYC on November 04, 2010, 12:27:15 AM
If the center is mid-way across a blue hockey line, the outer edges of the circles will come pretty close to the hockey dots on either side for someone around 5' tall.
I like this way of placing oneself and judging the circle size. I teach the Pre-Pre edges on the line using the hockey dots and center to gauge the size of the 4 lobes, which all but the smallest skaters are capable of. For anyone who has done the edges that way, it should be an easy step to using the dots to judge the full circle size.
Hmmmmmm. Interesting discussion! Clearly, my question is a bit premature!
As for the Figures on the new MITF test: From what people have posted, does this mean skaters may use hockey lines as an axis on the test? (You can't on an actual Figure figures test.)
Quote from: drskater on November 05, 2010, 07:12:09 PM
Hmmmmmm. Interesting discussion! Clearly, my question is a bit premature!
As for the Figures on the new MITF test: From what people have posted, does this mean skaters may use hockey lines as an axis on the test? (You can't on an actual Figure figures test.)
Yes you can!! I think you can also use a line to mark your center (but don't quote me!)
The PSA moves book says that, on the figures, the skater mayK
. Use a line as the axis or a dot as the center;
. Indicate their axis / sight the edges;
. Mark their center.
Note: for the crossover circle, the skater can skate optional intro steps; for the figures, though, tthe skater starts from a standstill.
Quote from: icedancer2 on November 06, 2010, 12:50:10 AM
Yes you can!! I think you can also use a line to mark your center (but don't quote me!)
My coach told me I can't be "obvious" when I mark my center. When I did my waltz-8, I started on the center circle which has a center dot, so it was a moot point.
We had our first test session where we judged the "New Moves" yesterday morning. There were not a lot of tests but I think that there was every level except for Juvenile. I trial-judged 2 Senior Moves and 1 Junior Move and judged a couple of Intermeidates and a Novice.
It was really fun to see the New Moves and the "new take on the Old Moves" - the Novice test went REALLY quick (instead of going on and on and exhausting both the skater and the judges) - judging the combined 3s/rocker-choctaw pattern was interesting - it all went by so fast!!
The Intermediates were interesting and it was great not to have to see those Power Circles - interesting to see the twizzles also.
I didn't see or judge any of the Preliminary or Pre-Juv so have no comments about how it went with the 8s or the new cross-over pattern. I didn't really hear anything about those tests either so everything must have gone fairly well.
Overall I think the judges were impressed with what they saw on the tests and liked the New Moves and new order,, so to speak. Looking forward to seeing a couple of Juveniles - maybe next time.
As for the center marking- my coach has me do a T-stop and use that as my center. It's very easy to see on any color ice, and is not obvious at all.
Quote from: Sierra on November 17, 2010, 04:28:45 PM
As for the center marking- my coach has me do a T-stop and use that as my center. It's very easy to see on any color ice, and is not obvious at all.
That's effective, especially if the ice is clean.
It doesn't really matter on a Moves test, but using a t-stop to mark the center would be unacceptable on a figures test because the scrape would obliterate the ice, making it difficult to judge the accuracy of the figure's center.
"Marking the center" in figures means you stand at your starting point and lightly make a scratch with your blade heel across the long axis. It shouldn't be more than 6-8" long. That becomes the starting line for your center push. The skater stands on that spot and indicates their long axis by stretching arms to the side, sighting down to judge the outer edges of the circles. Some people also indicate the short axis. Then, they assume the proper t-position to begin their Figure.
Marking the center has always been optional. If you had good lighting and satiny-smooth ice, you didn't need to mark the center because you could SEE your starting point.
Quote from: Sierra on November 03, 2010, 02:49:31 PM
I'm taking Prelim sometime- don't know when. I've already learned the swing roll-mohawk for the crossover pattern and I had taken figure classes before so the FO-FI figure isn't a big deal.
But why does the figure need to be 3 times the skater's height? Because now my circle is HUGE.
We had a November session planned but only two people signed up. And soo many people crammed for the sessions held in August and very early September. Just shows the attitude toward the new moves, I guess.
My coach is having me take Pre-pre and Prelim moves in the same session, since the Nov. one cancelled. So now I'm going to be a wreck testing Pre-pre since I'll HAVE to pass it to avoid wasting money.
Sierra, I wouldn't worry about not passing pre-pre moves. I know of no one who has not passed pre-pre moves the frst go around. If you are ready to pass yourprelim moves in addition to your pre-pre moves, you will pass your pre-pre moves. :) good LUCK!!
Quote from: Sierra on November 04, 2010, 06:07:23 PM
I like the idea of the figures being put in the MITF. A couple months ago, I took 16 weeks of figure classes and was very good at it. Waltz-8 perfectly timed, no toe pushes whatsoever, nice 'figure hands.' The only figure that gave me any real trouble was the backward circle 8 >:( Hopefully my Pre-juv test is far off in the future.
Yuck... yes. I kinda wish dd could have taken that test before the changes but it will be a good thing for her to learn. I have heard they are hard! She is working on her pre-juv moves now. Her coach wants her to test her moves Pre-juv moves in Feb or March. You will get it!
We have over 40 tests for Dec. 3 and 2 of them are Senior moves. So I should have something to report after that. We don't have any Junior moves though.
Well, we had our test session today and the new moves did not go so well. We had 2 senior moves, 5 intermediate, 4 juvenile and a bunch of pre-juv and prelim. None of the higher level tests passed. Most of the skaters got retries over the twizzles and loops. I asked one of the judges what they were looking for and she said the twizzles need to be even, and not checked. She said the loops need to be loops - not scraped, not skidded. Lack of power at the end of the new senior step pattern got both our senior testers. The judges really worked with one of the pre-juv skaters on the back 8s - let her do a couple of retries even. They finally passed her. They were really concerned with the lobes of the 8s being the right shape. The lower level tests were fine, and most everyone passed.
Thanks for the update!
The loops are the "killer" on the Canadian Junior Silver Skills tests. We have all 8 on the test, which is just one part of 3 different patterns, and skaters must skate 6/8 loops correct at a minimum; and they do have to be clean and "loops" not what I usually refer to as WHEE ! and Swing! loops. If these are new to your MITF tests - my sympathies - our kids know they have to do them and are usually eyeing them for quite some time before they even begin formally working on them.
Do I detect a trend? It seems that the Figure section of the new MITF tests is causing some headaches. Frankly, I'm not suprised. I've seen too many kids practice these like they are a form of edge-work. They tend to be naive about what a figure is supposed to look like and how it should be skated. Are the judges trying to send a message?
Quote from: Sierra on November 03, 2010, 02:49:31 PM
But why does the figure need to be 3 times the skater's height? Because now my circle is HUGE.
We had a test session mid-November and there were several Prelim and Pre-Juv tests skated. On every single test, the circles of the 8's were ridiculously tiny and often not of equal size. Although I didn't see the judges' scoring sheets, I'm sure that no one failed for that reason alone. There were a few failures, but the reasons were obvious and far more significant than the sizes of the circles on the 8's.
Quote from: isakswings on November 19, 2010, 04:53:20 PM
Sierra, I wouldn't worry about not passing pre-pre moves. I know of no one who has not passed pre-pre moves the frst go around. If you are ready to pass yourprelim moves in addition to your pre-pre moves, you will pass your pre-pre moves. :) good LUCK!!
I actually do know of a few who got retries on Pre-Pre MIF. One was not the skater's fault and was very unfair (long story and I don't remember all the details) and one was because the mom, who is a coach, taught her kid some of the moves only the week before and then communicated such anxiety to her child that the poor thing was a nervous wreck. It was very painful to watch. She didn't even get to finish the test because she got so confused on the edge patterns.
ITA with isakswings, that if you are ready to test Prelim, you have nothing to worry about with Pre-Pre.
Thanks :) I've been working on these moves for quite a while now so I guess the only way I could possibly not pass is if my blade falls off or I faint or something. :laugh:
But now I need to take three tests in one session. The moves and Pre pre freestyle. :laugh:
Quote from: momsk8er on December 03, 2010, 07:10:52 PM
Well, we had our test session today and the new moves did not go so well. We had 2 senior moves, 5 intermediate, 4 juvenile and a bunch of pre-juv and prelim. None of the higher level tests passed. Most of the skaters got retries over the twizzles and loops. I asked one of the judges what they were looking for and she said the twizzles need to be even, and not checked. She said the loops need to be loops - not scraped, not skidded. Lack of power at the end of the new senior step pattern got both our senior testers. The judges really worked with one of the pre-juv skaters on the back 8s - let her do a couple of retries even. They finally passed her. They were really concerned with the lobes of the 8s being the right shape. The lower level tests were fine, and most everyone passed.
That is good to know about the pre-juv test. That is dd's next moves test. Those backward circle 8's look like a pain! LOL. DD will get them eventually!
I apologize if I sound spacey--I'm writing with a fever, cough, the whole spring crud... :-[
My husband passed his Bronze MITF and Bronze FS! I was too sick to go the test session so I'm just going on what he told me and what the coaches said.
The test session had lots of fails, especially on the moves. Loop patterns on the Intermediate test caused grief (skated too fast to be true loops) and the kids struggled with the Pre-Juvenile back Circle Eight. Most of the retries were Pre-Juvenile, Juvenile, Intermediate.
The judges were tougher this session than in the past.
Quote from: drskater on November 03, 2010, 01:12:07 PM
Seems like quite some time since somebody posted test results. I'm curious about the new MITF tests. Has anyone taken one yet? Perhaps you've seen or heard something? I'm wondering how the judges are responding to the new moves. Any feedback would be much appreciated. Thanks!
My 10 yo dd is getting ready to test Intermediate moves....she needs to fix her outside edge swizzles a bit...we will let you know how it goes.
Quote from: drskater on March 19, 2011, 07:13:29 PM
I apologize if I sound spacey--I'm writing with a fever, cough, the whole spring crud... :-[
My husband passed his Bronze MITF and Bronze FS! I was too sick to go the test session so I'm just going on what he told me and what the coaches said.
The test session had lots of fails, especially on the moves. Loop patterns on the Intermediate test caused grief (skated too fast to be true loops) and the kids struggled with the Pre-Juvenile back Circle Eight. Most of the retries were Pre-Juvenile, Juvenile, Intermediate.
The judges were tougher this session than in the past.
Which one is the loop pattern?
There are no loops on the Intermediate MIF test. There are forward twizzles. Forward loops and backward twizzles come on the Novice test.
Thanks for the correction. So sorry--I'm feverish, ha ha. Yes, the problem was with the Intermediate TWIZZLES not loops (I don't know why I said loops).
At my club's test sessions this year, I've noticed the judges being strict with the circle 8's on Prelim and Pre-Juv. What these judges had issues with was that the circles were on unequal size and not lined up, meaning that the sides of each circle were not parallel with each other. I believe that the guidelines for that move say it does not need to look like a patch figure, and it's obviously difficult to teach kids to line up circles when they're practicing it on an FS session with 20 skaters all around. Have others encountered this expectation?
At my club's test session in January, there was a Senior MIF and a Junior MIF that both got retries. The Senior MIF skater put her foot down on the last pattern and the judges thought the double 3-double rocker patterns weren't powerful enough. The judges were very tough on the Junior MIF, particularly the new patterns. Another club in my area had a test session a few weeks ago and most of the Juv and Int MIF tests were retries. And there was a Junior MIF retry and most watching were surprised b/c they thought she looked good. My coach had 2 Int MIF tests there and said the judges were tough on the new moves, and also tough on the brackets.
The circle 8s were explained to me as having to look, in general, like the patch figures - equal size circles, lined up on the axis, and circles 3x skater height in circumference - but the print doesn't need to be quite to the same standard as used to be expected - that is, the second set of circles doesn't have to trace the first as closely, center doesn't have to be as exact, the push/strike for the new circle doesn't have to be as clean, etc.
My DD is working on her Intermediate Moves and will probably take them in May. She is having the most difficulty with the spiral pattern and the twizzles on one side - so 2 of the 4.
Quote from: Debbie S on March 20, 2011, 12:25:18 PM
At my club's test sessions this year, I've noticed the judges being strict with the circle 8's on Prelim and Pre-Juv. What these judges had issues with was that the circles were on unequal size and not lined up, meaning that the sides of each circle were not parallel with each other. I believe that the guidelines for that move say it does not need to look like a patch figure, and it's obviously difficult to teach kids to line up circles when they're practicing it on an FS session with 20 skaters all around. Have others encountered this expectation?
Yes, short of finding an empty public session, how are we supposed to get these down? ???
Have I mentioned lately how much I miss patch? *headdesk*
I think you CAN practice figures or the new Moves that look like figures on crowded sessions - I have done it myself while preparing for figures competition. You can't have the expectation that no one is going to skate across your figure, and you might have to stop to get out of someone's way but it can be done and should not be an excuse for not getting those circles somewhat lined up on the new back 8 pattern.
Yes I miss patch but you can't always get what you want, LOL
I just have to say that I LOVE the new 8-step mohawk sequence done in a figure 8 pattern on the Adult Silver MIF test. I am very fortunate that the local rink where I practice (NOT where I take lessons/get coached) has a Monday through Friday public from 11 am to 3 pm that always has at least a few hours of very light, if any, traffic. I usually practice 45 minutes of figures every time I skate there, and I do them from layouts, not with any marks. At both rinks where I skate, you can still make out the patch numbers, so I do get a lot of opportunity to do actual patch without anyone skating over my figures.
And because I do figures, the counterclockwise to clockwise transition on the new 8 step is easy for me. My only problems on that test had been (1) the first left outside mohawk itself, and since I got ripped on so badly on my 5-step during my Bronze MIF testing experience, I wanted these to be superb....my dance coach stepped in and made them super pretty for me =), and (2) the back RI/RO 3 on the second 3's in the field pattern. For the latter, I used a technique that JoJo Starbuck taught me at Dorothy Hamill camp, and that is simply to "spot" yourself in the glass as you turn to maintain alignment...worked like a charm and there's been no struggle ever since.
I will be the first adult to test Silver moves at our rink under the new requirements. I'll let you know how it goes. As far as other skaters' experiences with the new moves, and especially the new figures, the ones who took figure class over the summer do fine, and those that don't, don't. I loved that I taught a Junior level skater how to do a loop figure...and I haven't even passed my Bronze FS yet because apparently my "edge control" isn't good enough...one judge yesterday even suggested that I do edges off the line at the beginning of each practice session...um, okay ;-)
L
Quote from: Clarice on March 20, 2011, 12:10:25 PM
There are no loops on the Intermediate MIF test. There are forward twizzles. Forward loops and backward twizzles come on the Novice test.
Thanks, I didn't remember my dd mentionin loops....
Quote from: drskater on March 20, 2011, 12:21:40 PM
Thanks for the correction. So sorry--I'm feverish, ha ha. Yes, the problem was with the Intermediate TWIZZLES not loops (I don't know why I said loops).
Ah yes, my dd's coach is being very precise with her on those...her issue area is the outsides.
I just relearned the 8-step mohawk. Guess I should just be happy there is one fewer mohawk on my bad side (and my good side really, but it's good, so who cares.)
The biggest issue with the pattern: it seems HUGE. My coach is looking at the figure in the test book, and having me go like 3/4 of the way to the wall (which is indeed how it is drawn). It's going to be forever before I can keep a march cadence while taking steps that far out -on my good side- on my bad side, I'm still trying to do the mohawk at all...
Quote from: Skittl1321 on April 04, 2011, 07:07:07 PM
on my bad side, I'm still trying to do the mohawk at all...
Sister I share your pain.
I can almost dance my right mohawks (okay, it's a clog dance), but the left one is awful
Quote from: Skittl1321 on April 04, 2011, 07:07:07 PMThe biggest issue with the pattern: it seems HUGE.
Truthfully I wouldn't worry about it yet... get the steps down w/ correct turns and edges, then work on the speed/confidence and holding edges longer, and the size of the pattern will come naturally. If you start off worrying about how much ice you need to cover, you almost set yourself up to be disheartened about working on it at all.
Personally I love the mohawk patterns.. the 5 step on the bronze test is fun - especially when skated with a lot of speed, and I love the 8 step on the silver, but the back 3's in the other patterns are what I struggle with right now. I never had trouble with back 3's as a kid so it's super frustrating to find myself "unable" to do them well now.
Well my coach has deamed the good size good enough to set on pattern, so I have to start worrying about it... when it used to go around the circle 1 1/2 times it didn't seem nearly so far to cover... this is skating halfway to Kansas.
Quote from: sarahspins on April 04, 2011, 07:23:35 PM
Truthfully I wouldn't worry about it yet... get the steps down w/ correct turns and edges, then work on the speed/confidence and holding edges longer, and the size of the pattern will come naturally. If you start off worrying about how much ice you need to cover, you almost set yourself up to be disheartened about working on it at all.
For the 8-step, the biggest tip I found for making the pattern bigger is to PUSH on every step where you can, and that's pretty much every step. My dance coach just has to remind me of that (which of course gets you deeper into your ankle and knee bend, too), and immediately my pattern becomes bigger, stronger, and faster. Same thing applies to dance patterns.
L
Any further updates or tips?
I'm planning on taking Intermediate supplemental this summer, so I'll post the feedback I get afterwards. My coach looked at my circle 8's and the new eight step pattern today and said they all looked good for the test. She comes from the figures era, so we worked a little on the backward eight to be more figure-like because that's the way she likes it. She said forward inside twizzles should be fine, also. Forward outside twizzles are more difficult, plus I have been doing inside twizzles at least occasionally for years and I have only started playing with outside twizzles for the last few months. However, with a little practice, they should be just fine in a few weeks.