skatingforums
On the Ice => Sitting on the Boards Rink Side => Topic started by: FigureSpins on September 08, 2012, 09:55:11 AM
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Andrea Cooper (form. LovePairs) posted a petition to bring Figures back as a requirement in US Figure Skating.
She plans to present it to the Governing Council.
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/bring-back-figures/
The petition has several "big name" signers, including Janet Lynn and Scott Hamilton among the almost-200 signatures.
Do you think it will bring back figures and, if so, in what way(s)?
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I'd love to know how the people behind this expect for ice time to be available. Figure skating already fights for ice time.
If coaches find figures valueable, the should teach their students them. All my coaches teach them. But it makes no sense for USFS to require skaters to spend precious time and money testing a discipline that the ISU does not use anymore.
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I'd love to know how the people behind this expect for ice time to be available. Figure skating already fights for ice time.
If coaches find figures valueable, the should teach their students them. All my coaches teach them. But it makes no sense for USFS to require skaters to spend precious time and money testing a discipline that the ISU does not use anymore.
I am assuming petition advocates to replace MITF test with figures test as a prerequisite to freestyle test, or maybe add figures to existing MITF tests, not to actually bring figures back as a mandatory part of the competition. (big assumption, I know)
Why were MITF tests made prerequisites to freeskate tests? My feeling is they aim to ensure skaters have the appropriate basic skating skills before entering the respective freestyle levels. Do MITF tests do the job? According to my coaches, MITF cannot compare to figures when it comes to teaching the edges, body position, check, etc. What does MITF offer that figures do not?
Ice time is a serious issue. MITF can at least happen on freestyle sessions, I'd for sure freak out if more than 2 skaters start to pull out scribes on freestyle ice...
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I saw this petition advertised at LP. While I'm in favor of restoring figures, and changing moves, it's just impossible to do old style figures at modern rinks.
a. no ice time available, yeah unless rinks want to go bay to the past when they had sessions in the wee hours of the morning (like 4 am)
b. even if you try to practice on freestyle no one will yield to you
So old style figures is out.
The only way to make figures successful is to modify them to make them new style. Blend them in with moves, earlier on, or have the first test as a pre-req for moves.
Bring new audiences into figures to expand the demand for ice time: adults for fitness/balance/core training, and hockey players for edge control.
but no one in USFSA thinks way out of the box.
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I think it needs more clarification on exactly how they want to incorporate figures. I was watching someone try to teach a Waltz-8 recently and they kept getting cut off by freestyle skaters. The same thing happens with the forward and backward Circle 8 patterns. Part of it is that our rink doesn't have a Dance or Moves session; they've tried it and it's poorly attended. I can't imagine them adding time for Figures.
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The point of this petition is just to get enough signatures (500) to bring the idea to Governing Council. It is not for us to decide how it will be implemented and I don't see anything in the petition that states bringing figures back into the system as a requirement for anything.
I am sure the people behind this idea have been thinking about how to implement the bringing back of figures. I know that in some countries (Japan in particular) the skaters are doing figures as part of their training - whether it is part of their test structure as a requirement for anything else - I have no idea.
I think there are lots of ways to work on figures without having to do actual "patch" sessions (although that would be great!).
I love Janet Lynn's very eloquent comments accompanying her signature on the petition:
School figures are "pearls on ice!" Benefits of school figures are irreplaceable figure skating skills and techniques that can only be learned on ice. 1. They build physical safety and security for the skater. 2. They build muscular and neurological maps and alignment in the body specific for gliding, turning, moving, jumping and spinning on a thin blade, on a natural lean, on ice. 3. They build mental concentration and physical strength in gentle, consistent ways. 4. They build knowledge of the "language of figure skating." 5. They build intellectual evaluation of cause and effect; movement shown in ice tracings. 6. They build skills for creativity. 7. They build skills for interpreting music. 8. They build skills for creating beauty. 9. They build the foundation for freedom on ice! 10. Beatrice Schuba, 1972 Ladies Olympic Champion, deserves every commendation for her utmost expertise in school figures. 11. I thank all of my competitors for their excellent contributions to figure skating, and for spurring me on to become the best I could be. I honor all of them. Slavka Kohout, my brilliant coach, used other exercises to bring the "language of figure skating" gained in both school figures and ice-dance into all the glorious fullness of free-skating. Her training methods should be valued and sought out by skaters, coaches, parents and all skating associations as the highest teaching of the sport and art of figure skating in the world. She is a genius in figure skating.
Please sign the petition!! :)
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Please sign the petition!! :)
Or at least read the comments accompanying the signatures!
http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/bring-back-figures/
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I've taken my scribe out a few times on empty sessions- though really empty sessions are rare, so it doesn't happen often!
I passed my first figure test when I was very young, then MITF was implemented. I really hated patch sessions when I was little, but I miss it now. I miss the quiet, the concentration, the rhythmic repetition. It does help edge quality and body alignment. I wish I had more time and money so I could pursue them further.
I don't know how realistic it is to reincorporate them into the testing structure at this point, due to ice time issues as everyone has said. More of them in MITF would be great. I actually LIKE the loop pattern on novice - though I think loops are easier in a circle than on a line - but not everyone does.
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I am conflicted. Figures is very important, but it's also difficult to find room to practice.
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I think it needs more clarification on exactly how they want to incorporate figures.
The point of this petition is just to get enough signatures (500) to bring the idea to Governing Council. It is not for us to decide how it will be implemented and I don't see anything in the petition that states bringing figures back into the system as a requirement for anything.
I too think the petition needs more clarification in order to get people putting down their names. No doubt figures are beneficial, but how is it likely implemented will affect whether or not I'd support the cause (what / how / when etc.)
Skaters CAN take figures tests in the USFS system right? Diminishing amount of tests but still a possibility?
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I too think the petition needs more clarification in order to get people putting down their names. No doubt figures are beneficial, but how is it likely implemented will affect whether or not I'd support the cause (what / how / when etc.)
The petition is just to get it to Governing Council. If there is serious discussion on the issue then committees would be formed to determine how adding figures in would be implemented.
Skaters CAN take figures tests in the USFS system right? Diminishing amount of tests but still a possibility?
You can take any figure test you want - from Preliminary through 8th - there is also an adult track that includes many figures per level = There are Bronze, Silver and Gold levels.
The hard part is getting the judges together to do the test but a lot of the judges are THRILLED to be judging figures and so getting a panel together is not as hard as it might seem. We have done it in our area and have judges asking to come and judge at our figures competitions.
I think you can find the descriptions of the figures and tests as they were previously arranged on the USFS website. I will try to find it and post - maybe tomorrow.
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If figures test track is available, to me it means figures are currently in the system. Then I assume the petition is meant to *increase* the presence of figures, whether or not it affects the test structure by becoming a prerequisite test is a big one.
I'm hesitant to sign because I cannot tell what I'm really signing. not unlike like electing someone to the public office without even knowing the agenda... :)
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If the petition is for usfs to keep qualifying judges for tests, I'd sign it. But I agree with Jjane, I won't sign it without knowing WHAT they want to present.
I people on this thread seem to think they would still be optional, but why is GC needed for that? They already are optional and most coaches utilize them.
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The point of this petition is just to get enough signatures (500) to bring the idea to Governing Council. It is not for us to decide how it will be implemented and I don't see anything in the petition that states bringing figures back into the system as a requirement for anything.
Bring WHAT idea to GC? It's just an "I Like Figures" popularity petition - there's no ACTION or IDEA in the wording and yet people are being asked to back it. No, sorry, I won't sign something that vague.
We all know that School Figures was and still is the Foundation for Figure Skating. This is evident as we've watched Figures being reintroduced to Moves-in-the-Field. The IJS is calling for well defined and clear entry edges into jumps, footwork sequences, and spins. School Figures trained us to really understand and use edges for clarity and definition. There are so many other reasons to Bring Back Figures and we invite anyone who is interested in signing this petition to state their reasoning "comment box" provided when signing the petition. Let's see if there is enough interest and turn out to present this petition to USFS Governing Council for consideration."
This resolution is (at best) ineffective and at worst, a time-eater that will waste GC time while they figure out exactly what action the petitioner wants to see done. This just seems like it was put up on a whim with no forethought or planning.
Unfortunately, all discussions of Figures on the Facebook group have ended because of the focus on this petition. It's a shame because there are some highly-knowledgeable people who were sharing tips and techniques prior to the introduction of this topic. The repeated bumping and reposting of petition pleas have ended all such discussions.
The only signatures that are worth reading are the ones that actually provide an idea or suggestion. While I think the Carrie Jones idea of skate dress rental was great, their signature is nothing more than spam.
I'd like to see Figures incorporated in this manner:
. Create a Basic Skills track for Figures - four levels (initially) with the core figures that skaters of any age can complete should suffice for starters.
. Incorporate Figures competition events into the template announcement packages.
. Create a "How to teach Figures" educational course for Coaches as part of the CER-C compliance track.
. Challenge judges to become certified for Figures, at least the lower-level ones.
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I'd like to see Figures incorporated in this manner:
. Create a Basic Skills track for Figures - four levels with the core figures that skaters of any age can complete should suffice for starters.
. Incorporate Figures competition events into the template announcement packages.
. Create a "How to teach Figures" educational course for Coaches as part of the CER-C compliance track.
Now this makes sense to me! I haven't signed the petition yet either, much as I think figures are important, for the reasons you and others have already given. I applaud the addition of some figures to the Moves in the Field, and was aware that it is still possible to test them, as well as compete in some places. I think a Basic Skills track is a fabulous idea, and really like the idea of specific coaches' education. Let's not limit it to CER-C, though. I'm a CER-B coach, but as an adult-start skater I didn't have a lot of formal instruction in figures. (I have passed the Preliminary test, but that's all. I'm also the only person in my club who has even done that much, not counting our two most senior coaches.) I also know plenty of young coaches who know a lot about free skating, but not the first thing about figures, having never done them themselves. I wouldn't want to make "How to Teach Figures" mandatory for all coaches, but would love it as an option towards CERs at all levels.
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Thank you. To be honest, I don't think any of my ideas need to go before GC. Can't the BSS and Judges' Committees effect these fairly-simple changes without GC approval? That's why I don't understand what they'll do with this petition at GC. It also doesn't allow for discussion, which is why I started this thread. I didn't even think about the lack of patch sessions as an obstacle and none of the signers raised any objections.
FYI: any coach can take the optional CER-C courses on the PSA website, for free. They're paid for by a grant awarded to the Basic Skills program. I'm listed as CER-A and CER-C on the coaching compliance list. I don't think the CER-A or CER-B compliance needs to mandate Figures, however a really good course in it would fit into the Sport Science curriculum, if it incorporated things like angle, lean and alignment. Those core skills are needed for all forms of skating: figures => moves => freeskate/dance
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Yes, I took the CER-C courses last year, because I was interested in seeing what they were. I'd like any potential Figures course to count towards my CERs, though. Sports Sciences does seem like a good place to put it. That could be suggested directly to PSA, couldn't it?
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I think you can find the descriptions of the figures and tests as they were previously arranged on the USFS website. I will try to find it and post - maybe tomorrow.
Much appreciated!! ;D
We all know that School Figures was and still is the Foundation for Figure Skating.
Side note: in a lot of languages, the term "figure skating" has nothing to do with "figures" at all, this is not a very convincing opening statement...
The only way to make figures successful is to modify them to make them new style. Blend them in with moves, earlier on, or have the first test as a pre-req for moves.
Brainstorming on possible new styles that is no more difficult to practice on normal sessions than MITF? (not to say MITF is easy to fit in...) The basic figure 8 pattern is already part of low level MITF, what else may be incorporated?
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Yes, I took the CER-C courses last year, because I was interested in seeing what they were. I'd like any potential Figures course to count towards my CERs, though. Sports Sciences does seem like a good place to put it. That could be suggested directly to PSA, couldn't it?
I think the PSA can create any course they want to make; I would think the USFSA would have input as to which ones "count" towards CER-A and CER-B requirements. The best bet would be to send the request/suggestion to both organizations.
We all know that School Figures was and still is the Foundation for Figure Skating.
Side note: in a lot of languages, the term "figure skating" has nothing to do with "figures" at all, this is not a very convincing opening statement...
It's being presented to the United States Figure Skating Association, so it's an appropriate opening statement. If it were being presented to the ISU, your observation would be more relevant.
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It's being presented to the United States Figure Skating Association, so it's an appropriate opening statement. If it were being presented to the ISU, your observation would be more relevant.
Not inappropriate, just weak - relying on linguistics / history instead of essence / reality. Frankly, this sport has moved forward without true school figures for a decade and I especially will not say "we all know" for something that's easily challenged.
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Not inappropriate, just weak - relying on linguistics / history instead of essence / reality. Frankly, this sport has moved forward without true school figures for a decade and I especially will not say "we all know" for something that's easily challenged.
But your objection was in using the words "Figure Skating" because of the different names in other languages. To me, it's still a relevant opening statement; the USFSA started out with Figures; Freeskate came later and Jackson Haines had to go to Europe to make it popular because the US wasn't interested, lol. As for the "we all know," no one has signed the petition that doesn't agree.
I think you're trying to mince words to say you don't agree. I just don't agree with the lack of specific direction/action.
Hey - why don't you start a contra-petition and see if you get as many signatures? I'll bet it'll be close because young people would like your argument.
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I rest my case re: opening statement ;)
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Unfortunately, all discussions of Figures on the Facebook group have ended because of the focus on this petition. It's a shame because there are some highly-knowledgeable people who were sharing tips and techniques prior to the introduction of this topic. The repeated bumping and reposting of petition pleas have ended all such discussions.
Which Facebook group is that? I am in one called "Memories of Patch" and I don't remember the tips so much as the memories. Is there another FB group devoted to figures?
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Which Facebook group is that? I am in one called "Memories of Patch" and I don't remember the tips so much as the memories. Is there another FB group devoted to figures?
No, that's the one. They've talked about etiquette, sound, creative figures and a lot of other tips and techniques. There is more reminiscing, which is understandable given the title of the group, but some of those memories included knowledge and ideas.
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Page Polk Lipe has started an open Facebook group that follows the progress of a Patch class that she's teaching this month. All 22 patches are used during the class, according to one of her posts! Awesome.
There are several educational links in other posts.
http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/417864058269890/
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Page Polk Lipe has started an open Facebook group that follows the progress of a Patch class that she's teaching this month. All 22 patches are used during the class, according to one of her posts! Awesome.
There are several educational links in other posts.
http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/417864058269890/
Thanks. This is great.
I just wanted to add that I notice a lot of people have signed the petition who I would consider some of the top coaches/spokepersons through the years for our sport.
I am just saying that I don't think that this proposal will be taken lightly. :angel:
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I saw this petition advertised at LP. While I'm in favor of restoring figures, and changing moves, it's just impossible to do old style figures at modern rinks.
a. no ice time available, yeah unless rinks want to go bay to the past when they had sessions in the wee hours of the morning (like 4 am)
b. even if you try to practice on freestyle no one will yield to you
So old style figures is out.
The only way to make figures successful is to modify them to make them new style. Blend them in with moves, earlier on, or have the first test as a pre-req for moves.
Bring new audiences into figures to expand the demand for ice time: adults for fitness/balance/core training, and hockey players for edge control.
but no one in USFSA thinks way out of the box.
As far as the new audience thing, that's a pretty neat idea, hockey players and adults. My idea for figures was basically make it another sport. Basically, compulsory figures I would see as good, because, it wouldn't take the sheer athleticism that freestyle does, and it'd pretty much level the playing field for adults and people who start late, whereas with freestyle now, it's hard to really get good unless you've been practicing since you were in the womb. And even for the people that have the practice in, the other issue of just sheer athleticism comes into play with the triple and quad jumps. And as far as freestyle skating's direction, the general public would much rather see it move in the direction of "gymnastics on ice" and make it into more purely an athletic sport.
So I think compulsory figures pretty much would have to be it's own sport, and pretty much be a "precision" sport like golf or archery or something like that, just on ice. I think it could happen that way, similar to how ice dancing evolved into its own discipline, but I think because of the "gymnastics on ice" thing, the ship has totally sailed as far as including compulsories into freestyle skating. So, if compulsories survive at all (it does seem most people were quite happy to be rid of them) it will survive as it's own sport or discipline. I think what will happen is people will start doing independent compulsory figure classes and whatnot, basically out of novelty (as far as I understand it, the ISI actually still does compulsory figures competitions) and if it catches on, the USFSA will sanction it somehow.
As far as ice time goes, yeah, it's not gonna get much ice time. But even curling gets ice time. At the rink I went to in Vermont, they'd have a few curling sessions every week. So I don't see how compulsory figures couldn't get the same type of success. One possible advantage in the general public's eyes for trying compulsories is boots could be cheap, no need for crazy stiff boots. You'd be legitimately OK in a set of beginner boots and you'd be able to stay in them a long time. But, as I said, it'd have to start at the grass roots level, and then USFSA would eventually recognize it as another discipline.
The only possible problem is the temporary image crisis it'd create, since figure skating for such a long time has tried to distance itself/move away from compulsory figures, and sorta erase it from history, so it would be an image issue to work on, and in the most extreme case, freestyle figure skating might just be called "freestyle skating" or like in many other countries "artistic skating" instead of "figure skating." So that'd potentially be an issue depending on how popular compulsory figures got again.
But that's how I see this happening. Online petitions generally never do anything ever. BUT, if a grassroots effort to revive compulsory figures in the way I described happened, then USFSA would have to accommodate it somehow.
Just my thoughts, I'm 21 and compulsory figures weren't even around when I was born, so I have no personal memories of them or anything like that, though when I saw them on youtube I thought it was very neat.
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As far as the new audience thing, that's a pretty neat idea, hockey players and adults. My idea for figures was basically make it another sport. Basically, compulsory figures I would see as good, because, it wouldn't take the sheer athleticism that freestyle does, and it'd pretty much level the playing field for adults and people who start late, whereas with freestyle now, it's hard to really get good unless you've been practicing since you were in the womb. And even for the people that have the practice in, the other issue of just sheer athleticism comes into play with the triple and quad jumps. And as far as freestyle skating's direction, the general public would much rather see it move in the direction of "gymnastics on ice" and make it into more purely an athletic sport.
So I think compulsory figures pretty much would have to be it's own sport, and pretty much be a "precision" sport like golf or archery or something like that, just on ice. I think it could happen that way, similar to how ice dancing evolved into its own discipline, but I think because of the "gymnastics on ice" thing, the ship has totally sailed as far as including compulsories into freestyle skating. So, if compulsories survive at all (it does seem most people were quite happy to be rid of them) it will survive as it's own sport or discipline. I think what will happen is people will start doing independent compulsory figure classes and whatnot, basically out of novelty (as far as I understand it, the ISI actually still does compulsory figures competitions) and if it catches on, the USFSA will sanction it somehow.
You might find it interesting that when figures were first "eliminated" (as it were) figures were still done even at Nationals, but as a separate event from the freestyle events. I'm not sure when the last figures were done competitively at a National level here in the States but it was somewhere in the late 90s.
I'm not sure most people were quite happy to get rid of them. I know that a LOT of coaches lost a lot of revenue for a while because they used to teach figure lessons and then they were unable to make up the difference with just freestyle lessons. I think when MITF were instituted then they were able to pick up the revenue somewhat. I know that a LOT of coaches really miss teaching figures.
As far as ice time goes, yeah, it's not gonna get much ice time. But even curling gets ice time. At the rink I went to in Vermont, they'd have a few curling sessions every week. So I don't see how compulsory figures couldn't get the same type of success. One possible advantage in the general public's eyes for trying compulsories is boots could be cheap, no need for crazy stiff boots. You'd be legitimately OK in a set of beginner boots and you'd be able to stay in them a long time. But, as I said, it'd have to start at the grass roots level, and then USFSA would eventually recognize it as another discipline.
This is exactly what I am thinking re: time - if learning figures becomes important then the schedules will change to accomodate people doing/learning figures. You might have less freestyle sessions and more figures/patch sessions - like in the "old days" people did more figures sessions than freestyle as figures were such a large % of the score and were so difficult, etc.
The only possible problem is the temporary image crisis it'd create, since figure skating for such a long time has tried to distance itself/move away from compulsory figures, and sorta erase it from history, so it would be an image issue to work on, and in the most extreme case, freestyle figure skating might just be called "freestyle skating" or like in many other countries "artistic skating" instead of "figure skating." So that'd potentially be an issue depending on how popular compulsory figures got again.
School figures are the basis of all skating - they help to strengthen muscles - it would be like me just going to lift 200 pounds without doing any preparatory work - you have to build strength, etc., to skate and figures did this for the skater.
But that's how I see this happening. Online petitions generally never do anything ever. BUT, if a grassroots effort to revive compulsory figures in the way I described happened, then USFSA would have to accommodate it somehow.
Just my thoughts, I'm 21 and compulsory figures weren't even around when I was born, so I have no personal memories of them or anything like that, though when I saw them on youtube I thought it was very neat.
A agree that online petitions are generally not the way to go but if it starts a conversation (and it has) then I think this is a good thing.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I realize that talking about figures with people who have never done them, didn't do them "back in the day" is like someone trying to describe to me what it was like to live in the horse-and-buggy era. You just haven't experienced it! :)
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The hardest part IMO is to package and sell it as an interesting sport.
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School figures are the basis of all skating - they help to strengthen muscles - it would be like me just going to lift 200 pounds without doing any preparatory work - you have to build strength, etc., to skate and figures did this for the skater.
I know that, and you know that, and the USFSA also knows it, but the fact is, there's been a whole generation without figures, that doesn't know that, and the closest they have is MITF. It's a hard sell in today's society where people want instant results in things, instant fun, etc. It's hard enough getting kids (or adults for that matter) to wanna skate in circles for learning their edges without figures being there.
This is exactly what I am thinking re: time - if learning figures becomes important then the schedules will change to accomodate people doing/learning figures. You might have less freestyle sessions and more figures/patch sessions - like in the "old days" people did more figures sessions than freestyle as figures were such a large % of the score and were so difficult, etc.
I don't think it'd really dent freestyle much to be honest, that's very wishful thinking. I think it'd be more along the lines of just one or two sessions a day if that, or even something like 3-4x a week. Remember, it has to compete with like, curling, and speed skating for that matter.
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This is exactly what I am thinking re: time - if learning figures becomes important then the schedules will change to accomodate people doing/learning figures. You might have less freestyle sessions and more figures/patch sessions - like in the "old days" people did more figures sessions than freestyle as figures were such a large % of the score and were so difficult, etc.
Our rink has two freestyle sessions a week. I can't imagine having fewer...
To add figures, we'd either have 1 and 1, or they'd have to take away from hockey or public. That just isn't going to happen.
How many manufacturers are still making figure blades? With the rest of the world not doing figures, is there enough of a market in the US for it to be worth their while to sell them? You can fool around with figures, and learn the basics, in freestyle blades- but mastery just can't happen with that giant toe pick.
There is nothing stopping people from still doing figures now, getting rinks to hold patch sessions, or even holding competitions- all that is needed is demand. I don't understand why USFS would need to require them. The only thing I think USFS could do that would be useful is continue to certify judges.
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I think the OP meant that the ratio of patch:freestyle might change, but I doubt that unless the skating directors start to push for the patch or freestyle sessions with rink management or the clubs step up and rent ice to hold their own "club ice" sessions.
I think the new selling feature for Figures/Patch is the silence. I've read several notes online about the contemplative nature of Figures and how meditative the exercise is while toning the body isometrically. I haven't seen it yet, but I'm sure someone, somewhere is thinking that Sports Psychology wouldn't be needed if our competitors started their events with Figures, lol. (Not starting a rumor, just guessing at a direction.)
I cannot see the USFSA doing anything as a result of this petition other than maybe highlighting the Compulsory Figures resources that are still available, such as the online "Compulsory Figures Rules" pdf (http://www.usfsa.org/Content/Compulsory%20Figures%20Rules.pdf), the availability of Figures tests/events and perhaps the all-figures competitions some clubs host. The ISU isn't advocating Figures, so I don't think the USFSA would ever put it into the requirements in the US. That's why I suggested adding it to Basic Skills.
Traditionally, lower-level patch skaters would recycle a pair of broken-down boots and blades with the help of a good sharpener. The sharpener would grind off/remove the bottom toepick and sharpen with a very-shallow ROH to convert the blades. Less support was needed because of the slow, careful movements of figures.
There's also a lack of good skate technicians in the US today. Most people who claim to "sharpen skates" have created patch blades without even knowing it, by screwing up the toerake, lol.
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If figure blades just need the removal of a toerake (and the flatter profile) you can start by looking at dance blades. They at least come without a mega toepick at the front.
And I fully agree about the silence being the best part. I get to skate 10 weeks of figures over the summer every year and it's wonderful. I love the silence. Sometimes there's silence on freestyle if there's no one running a program but too often the coaches put on a background CD to fill the time. Personally I think it would do people a lot of good if they could hear their toepicks scratching more often.
And some of us outside of the US are jealous that USFS has at least kept the figure tests on the books. They're not even an option with NISA. If I ever get my back 8s and my 3s to a center to a reasonable standard, I'll be flying over to do one of the figure competitions as long as they will allow international competitors.
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If figure blades just need the removal of a toerake (and the flatter profile) you can start by looking at dance blades. They at least come without a mega toepick at the front.
I do figures in dance blades. It is true they are great because they have the very small rounded picks.
You can find figure blades very cheap on ebay and if there were a demand for it I am sure the blade manufacturers would comply but honestly you can make a pair of figure blades with an old pair of blades.
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I have a pair of Coronation Ace figures blades.
They are nothing but Coronation Ace blades without the drop pick. The toe rake --the stuff that points forward is still there.
My skate tech, who did figures, and was a tech in the figures day says all that has to be done is grind off the drop pick on regular coronation ace blades to get a figures blade.
For high level figures, I've been told there's a special sharpening that needs to be done...it's more than just giving the blades a 1 to 1 1/2 inch ROH.
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I have a pair of Coronation Ace figures blades.
They are nothing but Coronation Ace blades without the drop pick. The toe rake --the stuff that points forward is still there.
My skate tech, who did figures, and was a tech in the figures day says all that has to be done is grind off the drop pick on regular coronation ace blades to get a figures blade.
For high level figures, I've been told there's a special sharpening that needs to be done...it's more than just giving the blades a 1 to 1 1/2 inch ROH.
What someone told me was they'd flatten the whole blade, ie, have less rocker. Who knows.
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On a used pair of freestyle blades, the rocker would already have been flattened out by repeated sharpenings, right?
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On a used pair of freestyle blades, the rocker would already have been flattened out by repeated sharpenings, right?
Depends on how they're sharpened, I guess. It'd take a LOT of sharpening, I think, like probably years worth of use on the blades. Some sharpeners are better than others, and some sharpeners take off a lot more. IE, some sharpeners will grind a blade flat and then put a new hollow on, so that'd take a lot away from blade life.
I had a pair of what I thought were compulsory figure boots and blades a while back, actually, old old school Riedells from the 70s with Sheffield blades of some kind. The toe pick was oddly enough, cross cut, but a little over half the size of your average toepick today. Maybe they were freestyle boots and just from the 70s? I kinda figured they were compulsory boots, though. They were a single layer of leather and laced really high, and had 5 hooks on them. The blade itself was narrower than most modern blades I've seen, it was right in between a modern blade and a hockey blade. The ROH oddly enough was somewhat deep. So maybe they were old freestyle boots.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31-yn9XYq0k
This video shows a closeup of the boots and blades if you're interested.
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Figures is invaluable as a coaching tool to teach edges, however when it comes to professional skating, competitions and testing they are considered to be pretty old fashion. I did figure when I learned to skate in the 80's and you just know that you have been around for a while if you do them :)