Are there any adults out there (who started skating as an adult) and learning their doubles? If so, which double jump do you find most difficult and most easy? Any tips on learning doubles?
There is someone at my rink with a solid axel and sometimes 2sal who has only been skating for two years.. I think they are a younger adult though - maybe mid 20's?
There are several on YouTube as well...
Someone at my rink in mid twenties, mostly self-taught with scattered private lessons. Landing Axel and double Sal with some degree of success and unorthodox air position. Such a natural jumper!!!!
I know someone who passed her axel in test just after she turned 40, but now has back problems so has lost the axel. But she's my inspiration to get to that point and start working on the doubles.
I am 31 and land axels, dbl sal, working on dbl toe loops and soon starting dbl loops.
I used to be able to do dbl loops and I think they were the easiest dbl jump. HATE dbl toe loops with a passion!!!
Also want to add I took a 5 year hiatus from skating when I was 26 and came back this past summer. Not sure if that counts.
ME! ME!
I'm not letting age stop me from learning as much as I can in skating. I'm in my mid twenties and have landed..and now perfecting the axel, 2sal, 2toe and just starting the 2loop. Ugh I'm not a fan of 2toes either! It's just so unpredicatable and you have to have everything just right or it's utter crap. 2sal came pretty easy to me and I have to admit 2loop isn't too far behind either. Right now it's trying to get them consistant which is the harder part. Theres another adult skater in my club who is also working on axel and 2sal.
Here are some tips from my personal experience: 1) Equipt yourself with kneepad and butt pads...they're life savers!! 2) the higher you jump, the harder you'll fall..so when you're learning them start them off small and then work in the height and speed. 3)this may sound kind of obvious, but before you start jumping..do some warmups using good, clean edges..because they are extremely important not just in everything, but especially for doubles. Good luck and have fun!:)
Double toes are evil. ::>)
I took group lessons when I was 13 for 6 months, then started skating again at 37, 2 years ago. All of my jumps , except for waltz were learned as an adult. Now I am working on axel and double sal. I have not landed either one , but was very close before I had an injury 3 months ago and have been off the ice :-(
What helped me most were websites, such as "icoachskating" and "myskatecoach", which are online coaching tools. As an adult, it is important to me to understand mechanics first. After learning what to look for in doubles, I then video myself and analyze. My coach is incredibly helpful as well, she is invaluable in my learning. We also work on the jumps in the harness, which helps with fear.
I think, though the most important thing is having good singles with solid technique.
Just curious: why did you quit after six months? I find that's the age where we start to lose skaters.
QuoteJust curious: why did you quit after six months? I find that's the age where we start to lose skaters.
This was outdoor rink instruction, so the season was done. And in the summer we moved to a city without any ice whatsoever :-( But I loved it then and I love it now!
I have heard about 13 being the age for quitting. I think there are a couple of reasons: boys and social life priorities come into play. Also puberty hits and kids have to relearn a lot of things. What used to come so very easy, now requires tremendous work, and a lot of teens just are not ready for that.
BTW, I want to add, as a teenager I had a solid axel and 2loop and sometimes 2sal and 2toe.... and an arsenal of spins I don't have now (flying spins, donut, haircutter, etc), and I don't think it's any easier for me re-learning those jumps or spins after 10 years away from the ice than it would be for someone starting as an adult and learning them for the first time. I got some singles back fast, but others continue to be a struggle.
I skated from 13-19 and then stopped.. had 3 kids while I took TEN years off the ice and returning has had it's ups and downs. I don't have the same body I did before, and I was off so long that any hope for muscle memory kicking in is all but lost.. it's just not there.. the only lingering benefit I have is that I have a better understanding of the mechanics.. but that doesn't always translate into doing. Some things came back relatively easily (certain MITF, some spins), and others have taken a lot more work than I thought they ever would. It's frustrating sometimes, I hate how slow my progress feels compared to where I want to be, and I feel like I work every bit as hard as any adult-onset skater does to get certain jumps - my point is that nothing at the point where I am now is coming any easier for me because I skated before than it would be for any adult-onset skater. The notion that it does is just silly.
Then there are people like this guy (who is older than me by about a year).. who make things look TOO easy... if you watch his other videos I think he has all of his doubles now, but he had his axel after only 9 months of skating and he's only been skating for a little more than two years now. It just boggles my mind because it's so impressive :) BUT, it's a good example because his progress isn't exactly a good representation of what everyone should expect. He started skating about the same time I got back on the ice (which for me was march 2010). I'm nowhere near his level now, despite having the "advantage" of skating as a kid and being able to do some doubles then.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPpQcnl7WP0
Quote from: sarahspins on March 21, 2012, 06:36:53 PM
BUT, it's a good example because his progress isn't exactly a good representation of what everyone should expect. He started skating about the same time I got back on the ice (which for me was march 2010). I'm nowhere near his level now, despite having the "advantage" of skating as a kid and being able to do some doubles then.
Wow! I know an adult skater of similar. She had played hockey but never figure skated before and started taking lessons a little over a year ago and is now at silver level in USFS.
On the other hand, I've been working with a private coach for almost three years now and still haven't landed a lutz! I have to really respect adults landing doubles. I think there must be some inherit athleticism and skating talent at work there.
I still can't do a lutz and land on one foot if it makes you feel better. Even flips are iffy on a good day... I only got that one back six months ago.
Certain sports help tremendously with skating. Gymnastics, in particular, builds body awareness, balance, strength, flexibility- all the important aspects of figure skating! I think athletic people in general will have more progress as they are used to taking physical risks in addition to being sports conditioned.
Yea I should add as a kid, I took eight years of dance, so that helped alot:)
Quote from: sarahspins on March 21, 2012, 09:46:53 PM
I still can't do a lutz and land on one foot if it makes you feel better. Even flips are iffy on a good day... I only got that one back six months ago.
Interesting! My flip likes to play hide-and-seek too. I wonder what it is about those jumps that you can land doubles but struggle with them? Everyone I've talked to, kids and adults, seems to hate lutzes and even says axels are easier.
I have no idea.. I never had a problem with lutzes when I was younger. I wouldn't have said it was my favorite jump, but I never found them as difficult as I do now... and what bothers me is that I know it's mostly in my head... just like I "couldn't" do a flip.. i did them just fine the day I finally decided I would. And even on days when they're not working, it's not that I can't do them, it's that I don't have the confidence to commit to it 100% of the time - I've mentally chickened out before I even take off.
I was 19 & in college when I started. 3 years (and 9 dance tests) later, I started working on the Axel.
I had a 2Sal and 2Toe, and then a baby.
I have a few videos on YouTube about the "progression" of my jumps.
Axel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yL-5ItinPM
2Sal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5SLQS2PCeY
2Toe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBVi4kS0JLI
(these were all made before my baby)
Now my little girl is 4 years old, I'm working to get back to 2Sal and 2Toe (these often are rotated but 2-footed) and working on 2Loop.
I used to think the toe loop was evil, but now the 2Toe is the easiest for me. Turns out, it is now the Axel that I have the greatest fear of, even though I still land it when I muster the courage to jump... go figure!
Neat videos Chowskate. I like that last double toe.
Quote from: jjane45 on March 21, 2012, 01:09:00 AM
Someone at my rink in mid twenties, mostly self-taught with scattered private lessons. Landing Axel and double Sal with some degree of success and unorthodox air position. Such a natural jumper!!!!
The said skater recently cut himself on a bad axel landing, had 8 stitches and was back on the ice the next day. I don't feel like we live on the same planet!
How do you cut yourself on a bad axel landing? (Asks the person who got 17 stitches from a flip turn entrance.)
My guess would be catching some portion of the lower leg with the blade on the landing. I saw a little kid (maybe 7 or 8) do this on a salchow, slicing 3" of herher shin open (which is a lot on a little kid!), and I don't know how many stitches she had, but she took quite a while off the ice after.
I sliced my hand open once doing a shoot the duck and didn't even realize I did anything - someone came up to me and let me know I was dripping blood all over the ice and I might want to go take a look at it, so anything is possible :) No stitches for that one... they just glued me back together!
I just realized I said flip turn...my bad...flip JUMP. Flip turns are in that other sport I have to do on the nights when we don't have freestyles at the rink.
Well, I turned 50 yesterday and I swear that within the next 8 months I will be able to land an axel on 1 foot, and a 2sal within a year. I know how to do it from the past, it's just a matter of getting my groove back and practicing.
Quote from: VAsk8ter on March 27, 2012, 07:32:39 PM
I just realized I said flip turn...my bad...flip JUMP. Flip turns are in that other sport I have to do on the nights when we don't have freestyles at the rink.
Ah a swimmer. I was a competitive swimmer for 15 years. My other fav sport.
I skated for years until I was about 16.. I had all of my doubles and a triple salchow. I just came back a year ago at 33. I got my axel back after about 2 months, but my position in the air isn't as tight as it used to be - i seem to have trouble pulling into a tight back scratch position on my axel, double toe and double salchow. I am able to do the jumps now after a year of being back, they just look and feel "meh" and open. I do manage to cross my leg but its not tight... Surprisingly enough I can do a double loop and pull easily into a tight position, but anything that requires a weight shift feels wrong.
Anyone have any tips on how to get that feeling back? i think it might be that when I used to do them I was smaller and lighter (probably <100 lbs) and now I'm 125lbs and my center of gravity has changed...
Here's my axel from september last year. It has gotten higher and tighter since, but it still doesn't feel right:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TqWFKcTb90&context=C4875c88ADvjVQa1PpcFPBR2qD09h5fnWlYdnXXj-3S1kIuNn_Jss= (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7TqWFKcTb90&context=C4875c88ADvjVQa1PpcFPBR2qD09h5fnWlYdnXXj-3S1kIuNn_Jss=)
I quit skating when I was 17, skated here and there over the years, and returned to skating last year at 29.
My consistent jumps were through the double toe loop. I had landed double loops, flips, and lutzes, but never consistent, never at the same time, and never in competition.
I have somewhat regained some jump skills, though I've seen some regression as of late, and can usually land double salchow and toe loop. The other doubles are infinitely harder for me. I also have major air position problems! I'm never tight in the air, and my free leg is always loose- that hip is very open. I get enough height but without a good air position more jumps will never come. I also have a vastly different body than I did at 17- I weigh 15 pounds less than I did, but my lower body is a very different shape (I have hips now!) and my center if gravity has really changed.
At times, as I watch other adult skaters, I think skating before has put me at a disadvantage when it comes to jumps. I subconsciously try to revert to old technique, which does NOT work with this body, and a few of the adults I skate with have great technique and look prettier on the ice.
Talent has a lot to do with it too, of course. Perhaps, just like my first go around, I've simply reached the limits of what my body can do?
I think, no matter when you started, double jumps are hard!
JSM, don't ever think you've reached your limit. I think adults have much more potential than they think. If you think like that it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. :bash I have no jump talent - poor coordination, orientation in space, but I'm going to keep chipping away at my doubles until I end up in a nursing home.
Quote from: JSM on March 30, 2012, 10:24:46 PMAt times, as I watch other adult skaters, I think skating before has put me at a disadvantage when it comes to jumps. I subconsciously try to revert to old technique, which does NOT work with this body, and a few of the adults I skate with have great technique and look prettier on the ice.
I agree with you on the first part. I remember how some jumps are supposed to "feel" but I lack the muscle memory after having 3 kids to make those jumps happen. I think sometimes that makes listening to feedback from my coach and applying that to what I am doing that much harder... Usually because it seems she pushes me way outside my comfort zone - I've learned that it is better to trust what she says and try it her way than to argue :)
I disagree with the last part though.. I think everyone has the capacity to improve and rework their jump technique. It's not all about talent, it's about being able to translate what your coach says into what you need to do.
I realize as an adult that the technique I had as a teenager was often very sketchy, and not just for jumps. I'm becoming a stronger and more technically proficient skater because I listen much better as an adult.
Quote from: sarahspins on March 31, 2012, 02:12:55 AM
I realize as an adult that the technique I had as a teenager was often very sketchy, and not just for jumps. I'm becoming a stronger and more technically proficient skater because I listen much better as an adult.
Hey, I mostly resemble this remark as well. One of the things I am finding to be helpful is the ability to analyze (but after the session/lesson) what I feel/what the coach says AND off ice in a gym that I didn't do as a teenager.
Quote from: sarahspins on March 31, 2012, 02:12:55 AM
I realize as an adult that the technique I had as a teenager was often very sketchy, and not just for jumps. I'm becoming a stronger and more technically proficient skater because I listen much better as an adult.
I completely agree with you!! As a kid I feel as though I really didn't take the time to really understand the technique for jumps, spins and even moves. As an adult, I feel as though I try to really understand and also listen more to what my coach says and instructs. I feel as though I too am a much better skater as an adult than I ever was as a child.
Quote from: sarahspins on March 31, 2012, 02:12:55 AM
I agree with you on the first part. I remember how some jumps are supposed to "feel" but I lack the muscle memory after having 3 kids to make those jumps happen. I think sometimes that makes listening to feedback from my coach and applying that to what I am doing that much harder... Usually because it seems she pushes me way outside my comfort zone - I've learned that it is better to trust what she says and try it her way than to argue :)
I disagree with the last part though.. I think everyone has the capacity to improve and rework their jump technique. It's not all about talent, it's about being able to translate what your coach says into what you need to do.
I realize as an adult that the technique I had as a teenager was often very sketchy, and not just for jumps. I'm becoming a stronger and more technically proficient skater because I listen much better as an adult.
I agree as well. As an adult I find my body awareness is miles ahead of what it was as a teenager. Unfortunately this also helps me to realize how far away I am from where I want to be (position wise, and skating wise). I've been having some tough practices lately, but I won't give up. Thanks for the sage advice.
So it seems some of you are experiencing the same issues! I am completely convinced that it is a combination of the center of gravity that's changed and yeah, I've got hips too now after having a kid... I didn't have hips before so maybe thats what made it easier to pull in after a change of weight jump. My double loops feel effortless but when it comes time for a 2sal or 2toe I get so scared because I will end up on the ice about 75% of the time.
I took my first figure skating lesson at age 27, did group lessons for 5 years, quit for 5 years, then came back and started taking private lessons at 37. I landed my first axel when I was 38 and my first double salchow a few months later. For me, learning them first on the floor and then on the harness was crucial. It took me a year from the time I first landed an axel on the floor until I finally landed it on the ice without the harness.