Just heard of an unfortunate incident where angry skater injured coach during practice session (probably unintentionally, still at fault for reckless behavior). Have you heard of / seen violence on figure skating ice? What were the consequences?
:o Whooo (dunno how you spell that). That sound terrible!
No, I've never seen anything I would term "violence". I've heard shouting. I've seen skaters kicking the ice in anger. I've seen collisions, but those were unintentional. But if intentional physical violence were to occur at our club, it would be a violation of our code of conduct and would result in a suspension at the very least. If I were the coach and a skater attacked me, the coaching relationship would be over, effective immediately. There's got to be more to the story, though. These things don't just happen out of the blue.
I don't know any behind scenes story, reckless behavior is plain unacceptable. Skater old enough to vote throws ice chunks, poor coach taken to hospital with broken jaw. Since when is it more dangerous than hockey?!
Quote from: jjane45 on October 08, 2011, 12:08:51 PM
I don't know any behind scenes story, reckless behavior is plain unacceptable. Skater old enough to vote throws ice chunks, poor coach taken to hospital with broken jaw. Since when is it more dangerous than hockey?!
To me, this does not sound like a skating issue, but an assault issue.
I would handle it the way I would handle being attacked anywhere else. The coach should press charges.
Since you don't seem to know anything first hand, I recommend staying out of it. I know gossiping is fun, but it doesn't seem like something you'd want to be involved in.
Civil charges aside (if applicable at all), do rinks / clubs generally have specific rules that address misdemeanor of figure skaters? I heard hockey skaters banned from the rink because of speeding or talking to minors on public sessions, but no much about figure skaters.
Thank you for your concerns skittl1321, I am hoping to carry on a general discussion. Moderator, please kindly edit out specifics / let me know if the thread goes too far. Thank you so much!
Quote from: jjane45 on October 08, 2011, 04:03:09 PM
Civil charges aside (if applicable at all), do rinks / clubs generally have specific rules that address misdemeanor of figure skaters? I heard hockey skaters banned from the rink because of speeding or talking to minors on public sessions, but no much about figure skaters.
I would think that if a hockey skater can get a ban for a misdemeanor then a figure skater (or a speed skater) would equally get a rink ban for the same misdemeanor. That generally is the way things work. I don't think you get any special priviledges for being a figure skater.
Quote from: jjane45 on October 08, 2011, 04:03:09 PM
I am hoping to carry on a general discussion.
As a manner of general discussion- no I have never heard of violence issues on figure skating ice, not specific rules about them. However, our public session don't have rules about these things either. The rules of the mall (I skate at a mall) carry over to the ice rink. If it isn't appropriate at JC Penny's, it isn't appropriate on the ice rink.
I would assume checking and such is addressed in league rules for hockey, as part of the sport. But this, and other violent actions are not at all part of figure skating, so they aren't tolerated. There are no rules addressing this, as their are laws addressing this sort of behavior. Rules would be redundant. We have rules about laying on the ice, kicking the ice, foul language, etc- but none of these are the serious issue you describe.
If something like you described happened on club ice, I imagine the club would ask the skater to not return. I don't know about what would happen on public ice.
On another note: can a grievance be filed with USFS by a coach about a skater? Or does it only work the other way around? Many grievances result in bans. That wouldn't prevent the skater from skating rink sessions, but club sessions, or competitions. I don't really know what you have to do to get banned, but Skating magazine has people in it all the time who are listed in the grievance section as having temporary bans. I also know of grievances that are settled with no punishment.
Quote from: fsk8r on October 08, 2011, 04:06:48 PM
I would think that if a hockey skater can get a ban for a misdemeanor then a figure skater (or a speed skater) would equally get a rink ban for the same misdemeanor. That generally is the way things work. I don't think you get any special priviledges for being a figure skater.
I don't know, some "jurisdiction" differences seem to exist (rink management, hockey league, speedskating club, figure skating club, ISI, USFS, ISU), or maybe everything is up to management discretion and there are discrepancies when it comes to discipline.
Quote from: jjane45 on October 08, 2011, 04:03:09 PM
I heard hockey skaters banned from the rink because of speeding or talking to minors on public sessions, but no much about figure skaters.
I heard a hockey skater was banned from every rink in Chicagoland for bad behavior on publics.
And to answer your actual question, I heard of a presumably insane soviet pair skater who would deliberately drop his partner. She found a new partner.
I agree with skittle. It's assault. If the jurisdiction considers rocks a 'deadly weapon' under the definition of a 'bludgeon', throwing ice chunks might be 'aggravated assault'. Just because an assault happens on private property doesn't mean the rink/club/ or professional association has any authority at all.
Quote from: AgnesNitt on October 08, 2011, 09:19:55 PM
Just because an assault happens on private property doesn't mean the rink/club/ or professional association has any authority at all.
It is an ISI municipal rink.
Quote from: AgnesNitt on October 08, 2011, 09:19:55 PM
Just because an assault happens on private property doesn't mean the rink/club/ or professional association has any authority at all.
That's actually what I'm wondering about. In general, I think rinks or clubs can ban skaters due to bad behavior in their facilities. ISI or USFS can probably revoke membership and issue competition ban. ISU definitely cares.
I can't think of too many examples outside of Tonya Harding though. Nobu Oda and Andrei Lutai were banned briefly for drunk driving.
Quote from: nicklaszlo on October 08, 2011, 07:15:39 PM
And to answer your actual question, I heard of a presumably insane soviet pair skater who would deliberately drop his partner. She found a new partner.
Katia Gordeeva says in her book that she was one of the lucky girls - apparently incidents of partners deliberately dropping their partners, or throwing them harder than intended or in a different direction, were quite common! :o
I used to ice dance back in the day when lifts were more restricted. I witnessed girls dropped mid air or pushed into the boards. Heck I even witnessed 2 girls having a fight in the middle of the ice because their dance patterns crossed! I never really thought anythign of it other than what awful people. It seems in skating people just put up with tempermental personalities.
My friend used to compete at ice dance and had a heated relationship with her partner! Sometimes he would deliberately have his hand/arm positioned wrong so she couldn't grab it, or drop her, and she once kicked him in the head (i think partly by accident!)
Same friend also got kicked off the ice by her coach for kicking the ice in frustration.
BTW, she's very lovely and not a violent person (anymore...) ;)
I think asking skaters who repeatedly take out their frustration by kicking the ice to leave the ice (either for the rest of the session or for a set time out period) is a really good idea. The ice is for training, vent someplace else (where you're not making dents in the ice for other people to fall in!).
But violence towards people (skaters, coaches, bystanders) is a big NO-NO! There is no excuse for it. Kids should be taught better ways of handling anger and frustration and adults should know better!
Rinks should be able to ban a skater from all sessions. Clubs who run patch ice should be able to ban a skater from their sessions. In practice, I'm not sure how this would work, as from what I understand, ice monitors are volunteers and shouldn't have to face a potentially violent confrontation if they ask someone to leave the ice (I used to work in a shop and if the manager wasn't around to provide backup, we wouldn't challenge a group of well known shoplifters if we saw them in the act, it wasn't worth the hassel!). At my rink, it would probably be the head coach's responsibility to "police" the situation.
I've kicked the ice once or twice. But I try not to do it because I know it creates an issue for other skaters. If I really feel I'm losing it, I stamp my foot with a flat blade instead. Same violence, no damage to the ice! :blush: That usually only happens if I'm having a particularly bad session, however. I'm not into throwing hissy fits. They won't make me skate better.
Quote from: karne on October 11, 2011, 07:59:29 AM
I've kicked the ice once or twice. But I try not to do it because I know it creates an issue for other skaters. If I really feel I'm losing it, I stamp my foot with a flat blade instead. Same violence, no damage to the ice! :blush: That usually only happens if I'm having a particularly bad session, however. I'm not into throwing hissy fits. They won't make me skate better.
I do the same thing, but usually in lesson or with friends. But I'm laughing when I do it so it's not serious. It's more like "WHY CAN'T I LAND THIS JUMP RIGHT ::stomp:: GRRRR"
And my coach just laughs at me.
We've all done it lol! I just mean if it's getting in peoples way or happening all the time
No disciplinary actions that anyone is aware of. Zero, nada, none. Not for repeated on ice tantrums, not for the injury. If I were a coach on staff, I'd be disheartened.
If someone misbehaves on the public ice, he or she would be banned from the facility. It happened before.
That's crazy that there is nothing happening to the skater.
Then again, it is the coach's own fault if she didn't press charges.
There are coaches still willing to work with this skater?
That is one way to deal with these situations. I've seen it used for the troublesome parent, too.
When there's violence involved, I think the passive-aggressive track isn't the right choice. YMMV
Quote from: Clarice on October 20, 2011, 08:18:33 AM
There are coaches still willing to work with this skater?
The skater's coach probably gets a large portion of his income from this skater.
Quote from: nicklaszlo on October 20, 2011, 11:35:08 AM
The skater's coach probably gets a large portion of his income from this skater.
He's back with the same coach? That's really pathetic. Clarice and I meant OTHER coaches.
Quote from: nicklaszlo on October 20, 2011, 11:35:08 AM
The skater's coach probably gets a large portion of his income from this skater.
I don't know the exact circumstances of the on ice incident, but the injured coach is not the skater's primary coach. You can smell politics behind the scenes.
Quote from: Skittl1321 on October 20, 2011, 08:05:51 AM
That's crazy that there is nothing happening to the skater.
Then again, it is the coach's own fault if she didn't press charges.
how the coach decides to react is his personal choice that I respect, the management's response (or lack thereof) is completely separate and reflects its priorities.
Quote from: jjane45 on October 20, 2011, 12:31:25 PM
the management's response (or lack thereof) is completely separate and reflects its priorities.
yep- definetly true.
Okay, I heard more of this story tonight from a friend who takes lessons with the coach who was injured. This seems to be a case of reckless behavior, but not of assault. The injured coach is not the coach of the skater in question. The skater had landed a big jump which dug a sizable divot in the ice. The skater threw the ice chunk aside, and accidentally hit the coach. Throwing ice around is a pretty dumb thing to be doing, but the injury was not intentional. I understand a written apology was sent to the injured coach. I don't know any more - for instance, I don't know whether the skater threw the ice in anger, or was simply careless - so I don't know what additional consequences might be merited.
Thanks Clarice, that clarified things quite a bit.
Wow. I've been in a lot of rinks over the years and have never heard of figure skating violence (hockey dad killings, yes, but figure skating violence, no). On the whole, figure skating still remains civilized. I'm sure if something like that happened around here, the cops would be called in short order and someone would end up having their USFSA membership suspended.
Have you never heard of the Tonya-nancy incident? :D
That's a one-time exclusive thing.