Jimmy Santee wrote a great article for the PSA magazine that he's replicated on his blog. It's very informative and includes diagrams to clarify his suggestions about practice etiquette and on-ice layout for jumps, spins, etc.
http://skatepsa.blogspot.com/2010/11/forgotten-art-of-skating-ettiquette.html
http://images.nymag.com/images/2/daily/2010/12/06_pandas_560x375.jpg
Larger illustrations of the diagrams from that post are located on the PSA site here:
http://www.skatepsa.com/PDF%20Documents/RinkDiagrams.pdf
Nicely done, Mr. Santee.
Mod edit: So long panda picture. Corrected link.
Here (http://rinkside-blog.blogspot.com/2011/05/rink-culture-rink-diagram.html#links) is another diagram by Rinkside
Quote from: Isk8NYC on September 03, 2010, 06:07:49 PM
Jimmy Santee wrote a great article for the PSA magazine that he's replicated on his blog. It's very informative and includes diagrams to clarify his suggestions about practice etiquette and on-ice layout for jumps, spins, etc.
http://skatepsa.blogspot.com/2010/11/forgotten-art-of-skating-ettiquette.html
http://images.nymag.com/images/2/daily/2010/12/06_pandas_560x375.jpg
Larger illustrations of the diagrams from that post are located on the PSA site here:
http://www.skatepsa.com/PDF%20Documents/RinkDiagrams.pdf
Nicely done, Mr. Santee.
This was his presentation at the PSA conference - I was at it; it was good. He also showed a really cute video made by the kids at his club in Minnesota to introduce new freestylers to ice etiquette. I plan on redoing these maps for my rink (our harness run is in a different spot). I don't know that the exact layout is so important, but it is very helpful for people to know where to expect different things to occur on the ice. A rink with pairs should probably include the lift lane on their map.
Your first link is showing me a picture of a panda family.
Mod edit: Corrected link
Quote from: Clarice on June 17, 2011, 06:56:25 AM
Your first link is showing me a picture of a panda family.
Very strange. Correct link is here: http://skatepsa.blogspot.com/2010/11/forgotten-art-of-skating-ettiquette.html
A creepy panda family! It looks like 2 humans in panda costumes holding a real baby panda....wonder what the story behind that is.
I find the diagrams helpful...I just hope rinks that adopt them make sure skaters know they are kind of like the pirate's code: guidelines more than rules. Especially Jimmy Santee's one that doesn't take CW skaters into account at all. The other link seems to be more of a "rink flow" as in: this is where to expect skaters to be doing certain things, rather than "this is where certain things must be done."
Quote from: Skittl1321 on June 17, 2011, 08:43:30 AM
I just hope rinks that adopt them make sure skaters know they are kind of like the pirate's code: guidelines more than rules. Especially Jimmy Santee's one that doesn't take CW skaters into account at all. The other link seems to be more of a "rink flow" as in: this is where to expect skaters to be doing certain things, rather than "this is where certain things must be done."
As a CW skater, I totally agree. :) I like that rinkside included CW locations too.
Only problem is that the rinkside image doesn't include any place to SPIN or do the USFSA circular/perimeter Moves patterns. Guess it's for a jump-only session? My CW skater doesn't have a problem finding places for her jumps on freestyles. Her lutz is good! Plus it doesn't address the harness run, which isn't a big deal at our rink - it blocks only one lutz corner.
Quote from: Skittl1321 on June 17, 2011, 08:43:30 AM
A creepy panda family! It looks like 2 humans in panda costumes holding a real baby panda....wonder what the story behind that is.
I think that's exactly what it was; I remember reading an article about Chinese zookeepers wearing costumes to be surrogates to a baby panda. It might have been rejected or in danger from the mother, I don't remember the whole story.
Quote from: Isk8NYC on June 17, 2011, 09:55:31 AM
Only problem is that the rinkside image doesn't include any place to SPIN or do the USFSA circular/perimeter Moves patterns.
My understanding of the rinkside image is that it was a way to learn what patterns to expect from skaters- where they would be for different things, and thus, how to avoid them. It wasn't a map of where to be for each element (since it included the set-up pathways). For example, the lutz happens in the corner, but the set up starts at the whole other side of the rink, and travels around it.
I wonder if it is common at other rinks for skaters to do loops near the center hockey circle. It seems that is pretty common from the high level skaters at our rink. That appears to be the only jump that isn't done in a corner/end (toe loop seems to go more between the center of the circles)
QuoteI think that's exactly what it was; I remember reading an article about Chinese zookeepers wearing costumes to be surrogates to a baby panda. It might have been rejected or in danger from the mother, I don't remember the whole story.
Surely baby pandas are that stupid to think that those people are actually pandas...the poor baby is probably what the heck is going on!
The only jump I put in a corner for lessons or practices IS the Lutz. The flip and salchow are done between the end hockey circles after an entry run like Santee presents in his diagram. The loop is a little different because it necessarily curves at the takeoff, so I could see putting that a little closer to the hockey line, but I send it down the same way, towards the center of the circles.
At the PSA Conference, several of the presenters explained their choosing to use introductory footwork for all jumps in given places on the ice, most jumps are at the ends. In a way, that makes sense because a slipped toepick can make a huge divot. You wouldn't want that in the center of the ice where spins and footwork come through.
My rink recently posted freestyle ice etiquette rules (did not see it coming!!!! :angel: ) along with a diagram. Comments?
Quote from: jjane45 on June 21, 2013, 11:11:04 AM
My rink recently posted freestyle ice etiquette rules (did not see it coming!!!! :angel: ) along with a diagram. Comments?
Obviously no lefties in that rink.
And does no one do step sequences, moves or dance at that rink?
Quote from: jjane45 on June 21, 2013, 11:11:04 AM
My rink recently posted freestyle ice etiquette rules (did not see it coming!!!! :angel: ) along with a diagram. Comments?
Quote from: fsk8r on June 21, 2013, 12:00:40 PM
Obviously no lefties in that rink.
And does no one do step sequences, moves or dance at that rink?
And obviously no one runs their program, which may mean jumps and spins are outside of those areas. While I get what they're trying to do, it isn't done particularly well.
Perhaps the rink offers Moves and Dance sessions separately?
When I was younger, MITF was a new invention, and no one at my rink did dance, so this pattern worked pretty well, even on crowded sessions. I was one of but two or three lefties total, and I was able to find openings and practice. Obviously, the person in their program had the right away in all circumstances.
I miss those days, honestly. Crowded freestyle sessions now are near impossible to skate on, because so many people are doing patterns (dance or MITF), and we have a lot of people who teach in lutz corners, and some skaters (newer) stand BETWEEN the hockey circles. This is where all the flip and toe loop jumps are practiced! Drives me insane. But other than the people standing around in the middle of the ice, it's no ones fault that it's hard to practice on crowded freestyles. It's just busy.
Quote from: TreSk8sAZ on June 21, 2013, 12:16:24 PM
And obviously no one runs their program, which may mean jumps and spins are outside of those areas. While I get what they're trying to do, it isn't done particularly well.
At most rinks skaters in lesson have first right of way. Skaters running programs have second right of way - so, it does not matter where their elements are laid out; if you're not in a lesson they can do a spin out of those elements and they still have right of way (rinks don't run two programs at once, unless they have multiple ice surfaces. This is why it was not worth divulging into in the article (though it was somewhat mentioned, in a roundabout way).
Quote from: jjane45 on June 21, 2013, 11:11:04 AM
My rink recently posted freestyle ice etiquette rules (did not see it coming!!!! :angel: ) along with a diagram. Comments?
That's amazing. Every rink needs this.
Quote from: fsk8r on June 21, 2013, 12:00:40 PM
Obviously no lefties in that rink.
And does no one do step sequences, moves or dance at that rink?
actually the rule now says no full mitf patterns on freestyle ice
Quote from: jjane45 on June 21, 2013, 02:00:20 PM
actually the rule now says no full mitf patterns on freestyle ice
Whoa, really? Do you have designated MITF ice?
Quote from: alejeather on June 21, 2013, 02:42:30 PM
Whoa, really? Do you have designated MITF ice?
Yeah, I was just wondering that.
While it's nearly impossible to do full MITF patterns at my rink on a full freestyle session, it's still allowed.
That's progressive to ban Moves patterns on a freestyle session. Must have more than one sheet of ice.
Rinks have Moves, Dance, and even Patch, sessions. At other rinks, they divide freestyle time into low-, medium-, and high-level freestyle sessions.
Quote from: TreSk8sAZ on June 21, 2013, 12:16:24 PM
And obviously no one runs their program, which may mean jumps and spins are outside of those areas. While I get what they're trying to do, it isn't done particularly well.
Quote from: GoSveta on June 21, 2013, 01:33:49 PM
At most rinks skaters in lesson have first right of way. Skaters running programs have second right of way.
Program to music has top priority anytime here. And the diagram serves as a guidance, not absolute rule.
Quote from: fsk8r on June 21, 2013, 12:00:40 PM
Obviously no lefties in that rink.
They become righties! (wink wink @nicklaszlo lol)
Quote from: FigureSpins on June 21, 2013, 12:26:47 PM
Perhaps the rink offers Moves and Dance sessions separately?
Quote from: alejeather on June 21, 2013, 02:42:30 PM
Whoa, really? Do you have designated MITF ice?
The actual rule:
Full Moves in the Field patterns are not permitted on Freestyle sessions. Full patterns are permitted on Moves sessions ONLY. Moves in the Field steps may be broken down into smaller footwork patterns and practiced parallel to the boards during Freestyle sessions.I went a bit ??? at this too as we only have one full size sheet of ice, and the moves ice is very limited. PM if you are interested to see FIVE pages of practice ice rules :angel: :angel:
We certainly have lovely, dedicated dance sessions in the summer. It's interesting that full MITF patterns got ruled out but not dance. Maybe MITF skaters who refuse to yield got out of control while dancers watch for others fine.
Another rule that is important: Coaches who have several skaters on the ice may work with a maximum of FOUR skaters at one time. These skaters must SPREAD OUT and leave room in between them when practicing a maneuver.
So now we have blocks of 4 instead of blocks of 10, improvement! (proud survivor of the rink dance camp last year when coaches also ran private summer camps on FS ice)
I kinda like it even though I am a leftie. I already do my toe loop, flip, and loop in those lanes (except the extra loop lane around the circle). Lutz I could do through the loop lane. The salchow - waltz - axel lane would be a challenge though (maybe through the lutz lane?). If the FS is larger 15-20+, I think the spin area is a bit small.
My main rink is a bit chaotic now. 16-22 skaters on a session doing moves and FS. Spins between the blue lines and jumps outside the spin area. Over half the girls are working on Intermediate Moves or higher. No designated Moves sessions. Most coaches teach edges and the axel along one of the blue lines, going straight into Moves traffic. It seems like most coaches teaching skaters working on single jumps have found a comfort spot to teach their lessons in and stay there almost the entire lesson. Those with skaters working on doubles move around more.
New rink is ISI only - no moves. They have one end of spinning which also has the jump harness. Jumps everywhere else.
Quote from: jjane45 on June 21, 2013, 04:23:21 PM
PM if you are interested to see FIVE pages of practice ice rules :angel: :angel:
5 pages! :o
My rink has 1 very small paragraph! :P It can be summarised by:
- patch (practice ice)
must be booked 48 hrs in advance. (This point takes up most of the paragraph!)
- be polite and watch out for other skaters.
- no chatting on the ice.
- there must be a coach on the ice in order for you to be allowed to skate.
Ermmm, that is pretty much it! :) There are no designated jumping or spinning areas. It works well on the quieter sessions I skate, though the "there must be a coach on the ice" rule is a nightmare sometimes if my coach is away and during school holidays. Summer holidays start in a couple of days so my available practice time is about to plummet as the kids (and consequently coaches) come in later - too late for me to do anything other than just my lesson before work. :(
Most skaters develop a rather pavlovian response to our (very few) high level skaters program music though - opening bars = bail for barrier even if you are mid lesson! It is chaos when one of them has new music! ???
Quote from: taka on June 22, 2013, 02:31:45 PM
Most skaters develop a rather pavlovian response to our (very few) high level skaters program music though - opening bars = bail for barrier even if you are mid lesson! It is chaos when one of them has new music! ???
I seem to have developed the same pavlovian response. It doesn't help that one coach gets her skaters to flip their programs around so just when you think the double lutz is at one end of the rink, it suddenly appears at the other. And for those skaters which have their music overplayed the most, the pavlovian response remains for when the next kid starts to reuse it and I have to train it out when I learn that the next kid won't try to kill me.
I wonder if those rules only apply to freestyle sessions. How about public sessions?
Quote from: Icicle on June 22, 2013, 10:57:07 PM
I wonder if those rules only apply to freestyle sessions. How about public sessions?
Public ice has its own set of rules. I know people try to use it as cheap freestyle ice, but really, locally except for mid-week public, and the first hour of summer eveing public, the rink is too crowded.
I used to take lessons on public, then aftr a while I realizd I was spending too much time waiting for a spot to clear, Freestyle may be busy, but by god people know the rules and they're polite. The only freestyle skaters on public locally are a handful of young kids and some determined adults.
Quote from: AgnesNitt on June 22, 2013, 11:16:05 PM
Public ice has its own set of rules. I know people try to use it as cheap freestyle ice...
When convenient, I still use the middle coned off areas of public sessions for practice, and it's almost like the freestyle rules except well it's only 1/3 in area and obviously no one runs program music. Spins in the center, jumps on the ends. Some kids can only jump around the middle circle and it frustrates me.
Quote from: taka on June 22, 2013, 02:31:45 PM
5 pages! :o
My rink has 1 very small paragraph! :P It can be summarised by:
- patch (practice ice) must be booked 48 hrs in advance. (This point takes up most of the paragraph!)
- be polite and watch out for other skaters.
- no chatting on the ice.
- there must be a coach on the ice in order for you to be allowed to skate.
Ermmm, that is pretty much it! :) There are no designated jumping or spinning areas. It works well on the quieter sessions I skate, though the "there must be a coach on the ice" rule is a nightmare sometimes if my coach is away and during school holidays. Summer holidays start in a couple of days so my available practice time is about to plummet as the kids (and consequently coaches) come in later - too late for me to do anything other than just my lesson before work. :(
Does that rule mean your specific coach, or is it just that some coach has to be out there in order for skaters to be out there? It sounds very unfair to skaters either way. So does the rink cancel FS sessions if no coach shows up that day? If so, that's just crazy or stupid. Is there a FS session monitor there? At the rink here, people skate all the time without coaches on the ice, but we do have a FS monitor.
My club does not allow coaches to instruct more than two skaters at a time during one lesson on club ice. Three or more constitutes a group and group lessons are restricted to group lesson time. We did have one non-home club coach who tried to coach three sisters at one time; the girls were not all on the same level and two were beginners and not aware of traffice patterns at all. It was chaos.
The only exception to this is when a coach might have three to five skaters entering a team event where each skater does a different jump or spin. Then the week before the competition, the coach may take the group through the elements and decide who does what. That only lasts about ten minutes, though and causes very little disruption.
Quote from: treesprite on June 23, 2013, 02:09:30 AM
Does that rule mean your specific coach, or is it just that some coach has to be out there in order for skaters to be out there? It sounds very unfair to skaters either way. So does the rink cancel FS sessions if no coach shows up that day? If so, that's just crazy or stupid. Is there a FS session monitor there? At the rink here, people skate all the time without coaches on the ice, but we do have a FS monitor.
Any coach. Patch (practice ice) sessions are run by the "skating school" ie the coaches, rather than the rink so you need one (or more) of them have to be present in order to be covered by the coaches insurance. There are no rink or music monitors. There are around a dozen coaches though many are part-time.
The busy weekend and evening sessions always run fine, as do 95% of the term-time weekday early (before school) sessions. My coach usually gives me a heads up if no-one is going to be around (ie so I can't practice before my lesson).
The skate school often runs a "beginners" patch late morning in the school holidays so many coaches rearrange their lessons so they don't have too many gaps in the run up to that (and few want to get up early if they don't need to!) so they simply aren't usually around earlier. My coach is expecting me to be the 1st in on Tuesdays so I will have max 10 mins warm up + lesson then need to leave for work unless I go into work later (possible but depends on what I'm up to at work that day!). Early patch still ran most Fridays last year (after the rink refit) as there were a few adults looking for early patch for lessons/ practice and the head coach came in with several of her higher level skaters (so they could have uninterrupted lessons and program run throughs on quiet non kid filled ice ;)) so the rink was opened ~7ish. Hopefully that is the case this year too. We'll see.