skatingforums
On the Ice => Sitting on the Boards Rink Side => Topic started by: supra on October 07, 2012, 12:53:13 AM
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*Is a male figure skater*
I'm 21, I started skating at 20. Which is an odd age to get into skating, as about 20 years old is the age most people quit skating, and then it seems like if they skate again, they pick it back up again in their 30s or older as an adult skater. Life gets in the way obviously, and if they've accomplished a ton skating, and plateau at that age, why continue? So I'm too old to be a teenage skater, and too young to be a real adult skater, either.
That said, not that I've actually counted out everything exactly, but here's the ratio of skaters at my rink. In my age and below (high school/early college age) there is exactly one guy my age who skates often at my rink, and is an LTS instructor too I think. This only what I can gather from the timeslots before and after noon to 1:20PM public session. Occasionally you'll get some other guys from other rinks, or maybe someone from another timeslot, but at my rink, as far as "regulars" I see in those timeslots, there is that one guy, per about 6-10 "regular" girls. As far as little kids, like elementary age, I see some more, but it's still a very skewed ratio.
Once you get to adult age, the ratios get a bit more even. There's two or three figure skating guys in my public session that are there almost daily like me. One that has spotty attendance to public, but does seem to skate as his life allows. Both of those old guys are old, at least their 60s. The spotty attendance guy is like 40. Generally on the ice there will about 2-3 women adult skaters, too. Coaches is where it gets really interesting. The most qualified (as far as competition wins in their career) coaches at my rink are guys. There's probably at the very least an equal 50/50 split with male to female coaches, but I'd say on the whole, there's more highly skilled male coaches.
As far as speed skaters.... two old guys, 50+. That's it. There was one female speed skater who was in her late 30s or early 40s, who oddly was a professional cyclist and was speed skating to give herself something to do during the winter, but she was a very strong (could deadlift like 300lbs) and athletic lady. She managed to get quite fast in a very short amount of time just due to sheer athleticism, and could easily after only about a month of skating keep up with the 50 year old men who skate 3+ days a week. So because of that, her coach told her to stop because she's very competitive and could potentially hurt herself and mess up her cycling progress. 'Tis a shame.
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Anyway, I'm gonna ramble on here a bit, about my experience and what I see, it's probably gonna be long, boring, and maybe slightly inflammatory, so just skip reading if you want.
One elephant in the room... There's the whole perception that males who figure skate are homosexual, and then if you actually talk to some male figure skaters or see them interviewed, you don't see many guys looking like Chuck Norris or something. Some, or even most, male figure skaters are quite effeminate, and many people would say they're gay if they had to guess off the top of their head. Of course, too, there are homosexual figure skaters. I've had the accusation levied against me, too, for my mannerisms when I am in fact not homosexual. So for that reason alone, many guys steer clear of figure skating, even if they did have an inclination towards doing it, just because of that (rather recent) perception. This thankfully doesn't seem to be the case worldwide, I've heard in former Soviet countries, male figure skaters were viewed as manly. But....yeah...
For most guys, there's simply much more in the way of opportunity in the way of hockey. Just money and general success alone, it's in a lot of ways a better bet than figure skating. The only thing figure skating gives you, if you're deadset on just succeeding at a sport, is being able to compete at the national/world level. But even at the national and world level in figure skating, there's not much prize money, and the sport pretty much will only COST you money due to coaches/etc. There's a chance if you're really good and committed, you could be national/world level, but most people never make it that far. The only advantage I can see as a guy in figure skating is probability is on your side. Due to seemingly the 1 guy per 10 girls figure skating, you have less guys to compete against. Basically the only "end game" of figure skating is being able to coach other people at $50-80 an hour, and even then, the demand may not be there, and it likely will not be a fulltime career option for you. This isn't even getting into the social problems of figure skating and the social advantage hockey will give a guy (which I'll get into below.)
Hockey on the other hand, start as a kid. Then you can play in high school. But, even more important than that, you can get a college scholarship to get your college education for free, just for playing hockey. If you're good in college, you make the NHL and can make millions a year. There's probably only handful of male figure skaters who make what hockey players make a year. If you don't make the NHL, you can still play semi-pro at 30K year or so, and have a blast (this would work if you're not married.) Then you can still get drafted from semi-pro to the NHL. That's a lot of monetary advantage right there. But even if you never reach a high level in the sport, you get a sense of camaraderie, because it's a team sport. After hockey games, people all drink beer in the parking lot/locker room, go to post-game parties and stuff like that. It gives you a social group. Figure skating, as a guy, you can't just show up to a freestyle session one day, be on the "team" regardless of skill level, and then go party with everyone after. It's just a completely different social atmosphere, and honestly one with a good deal of exclusiveness and elitism, intentionally malevolent or not. It's one more comfy to me than the fratbro kinda atmosphere of hockey, but basically only "nerdy" guys are currently attracted to figure skating for this reason, from what I can see.
Oddly enough, though, nobody's made fun of me much for it, at least to my face. Some high schoolers got mad at me/jealous/thought I was gay, and dumped some iced tea on my car after one public session where I was the only one not apart of their group and skating alone. I talk to hockey players in public session quite often, am acquaintances with a few, a small percentage even take my skating advice I give them. Usually the conversation is like "So you get to lift chicks in the air and sh*t? That's pretty cool!" and I'm like "No, I'm not good enough to do that yet." And then they're like "Oh..." I don't know how well I'm appreciated or liked among the other figure skaters at my rink, the ones my age (I get along better with the older adults) never really go out of their way to talk to me, or I to them. That might change once I get going to freestyle sessions where I'll be on the ice with them often, but who knows. That could be my fault, too, as I have Aspergers and have been told I'm very socially awkward, but yeah...
So those are my perceptions and experiences, sorry if I've offended anyone or anything like that.
Mod note: thread split
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I just want to say that most rink skating directors ignore the number of male skaters in figure skating boots. It's like they're the invisible skater. At my home rink I was talking to one of the coaches and she said "What male adult skaters?"
I reeled off 5 names. And those are just the ones on weekends!
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I'm male and also started at age 20.
Since I skate with my wife, everybody knows my orientation. A guy in rental skates did try to hit on me once though.
Participating in sports for the purpose of obtaining money or scholarships is pretty much always a bad idea.
"only "nerdy" guys are currently attracted to figure skating" - I am a scientist, so no argument there.
There are lifts which actually are not difficult.
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At my home rink I was talking to one of the coaches and she said "What male adult skaters?"
Ha, for public skating I am puzzled that sometimes adults outnumber kids in the middle ice, and guys outnumber ladies several times too!
Proportionally maybe male adult skaters are less likely to get figure skates, and for those who do, they are not as likely to get lessons as the ladies. Pure opinion based on observations at my rink.
Participating in sports for the purpose of obtaining money or scholarships is pretty much always a bad idea.
Although when it comes to choosing a serious sport, scholarship opportunity is a big factor, especially for an athletic boy.
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My son took lessons at 16 or 17. He enjoyed it but was frustrated when the coach tried to teach him the same way she would teach a child. I was surprised how quickly he took to it. I shouldn't have been - he excelled at fencing and that requires balance and lots of physical training. No one thought he was gay but even if they did he wouldn't have cared. Then school took up too much time. he looks great on the ice with his girlfriend or sister though!
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I also see proportionally more male adult skaters compared to young male skaters. One boy from my group lesson shows particular potential, I was a bit taken aback when his mom asked me yesterday whether he would be good for *speed skating*. Reason being, he didn't want to be seen in a "girly" sport.
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I also see proportionally more male adult skaters compared to young male skaters. One boy from my group lesson shows particular potential, I was a bit taken aback when his mom asked me yesterday whether he would be good for *speed skating*. Reason being, he didn't want to be seen in a "girly" sport.
Well aside from other people's opinions, speed skating is quite fun. I've seriously considered crossing over myself, having tried speed skating out. However, I like the artistic/emotional outlet figure skating gives me. Speed skating is great fun, and I recommend anyone with the opportunity try it out. It helped me even with figure skating, as I realized I could do a lot better running a more shallow hollow (speed skates are flatground.) So I wouldn't knock anyone that switches (in fact, one of the coaches at this rink, his wife switched to speed skating from figure) but I would say it's bad if he switches from peer pressure.
In the good news, I've apparently influenced a little boy to figure skate. He's like 5 and his grandfather said he thought I was really cool and a good skater (I'm not that good a skater, can only do 3 turns and waltz jumps...) So his grandfather said they were going shopping for figure skates soon, and he was signing him up for group lessons at a college. So I'm happy about that, it feels good to be a good influence. Going off that, maybe one of the reasons males don't get into figure skating is there aren't as many male role models. You can be like "Hey, Kristina Yamaguchi..." and people will know who she is, but only a few male skaters make it to household name status.
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I was really surprised this summer when I realized at LTS we had 4 coaches on the ice, and all were male. (During the non-summer we usually also have 1 or 2 female coaches)
We have a few male figure skaters at our rink, but not nearly as many as male LTSers (many classes are even among boys and girls, and even men/women). The LTS program is not the same as the hockey LTS, so I don't know where we lose them, except that even among girls the number of LTSers who become figure skaters is very small.
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I was really surprised this summer when I realized at LTS we had 4 coaches on the ice, and all were male. (During the non-summer we usually also have 1 or 2 female coaches)
Every rink needs at least one male coach. Who else is going to explain to the younger male skaters how to wear a dance belt for shows and tests?
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Well aside from other people's opinions, speed skating is quite fun. I've seriously considered crossing over myself, having tried speed skating out.
Right, I have nothing against speed skating, just that I don't know much about it myself and was totally unprepared to answer a question on whether a boy would be good for it. :-)
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Right, I have nothing against speed skating, just that I don't know much about it myself and was totally unprepared to answer a question on whether a boy would be good for it. :-)
Does he have a 6 minute mile and is he able to squat double bodyweight?
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Does he have a 6 minute mile and is he able to squat double bodyweight?
LOL this boy is just into his 3rd set of beginner lessons... (ie around the level of Basic 3) I don't test for 6-minute miles at this stage! ;-)
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I don't test for 6-minute miles at this stage! ;-)
On ice? ;D
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LOL this boy is just into his 3rd set of beginner lessons... (ie around the level of Basic 3) I don't test for 6-minute miles at this stage! ;-)
Heh, just tell him that to scare him. In all seriousness, though, speed skating does require a lot out of you, especially out of the elite/competitive level. I've heard Apollo Ohno can leg press 1000lbs on one leg, and single leg squat like 500lbs or something (don't know to what depth, and I'm assuming it means leg behind him, not shoot the duck.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdKiY92WE40
Neat exercises they're doing in that, too. But speed skating is a bit different than figure in that there's no subjectivity or artistry involved, you either win or lose. Like people remember figure skating performances regardless of if participants "win" or not, but speed skating you either win or lose, that's all.
Or just tell him "Sure, we can try speed skating after you learn your edges, because speed skates you have to know your edges more because the blades are flat."
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Every rink needs at least one male coach. Who else is going to explain to the younger male skaters how to wear a dance belt for shows and tests?
ROFL !!! Actually, it was our very female coaches (and older sister) who sorted out that problem in explicit and directive fashion. No dance belt though. Tight compression shorts.
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So. as the parent of a male figure skater: The attraction of the sport was the speed, risk and danger factor; hockey was not enough of a challenge as it was not enough ice time, it wasn't difficult enough, and the "risk junkie" mentality craved the adrenalin rush of flying across the ice and through the air. Would have liked to be on a team ... but,then again, we sort of have a "team" with the skaters that skate together. Speedskating .. yes, that was considered, but, while it was fast enough and aggressive enough (short track) - the aerobatic aspect of figure skating and the constant new challenges (single - double - triple etc etc etc) was preferred. Plus, when skating moved to points ... the game of playing and running points to maximize comps was an intellectual challenge, as was using principles of physics to improve spins and jumps (I stay out of those conversations).
Yes, some of the guys he skates with are gay. Some aren't. Some of the girls he skates with are gay. It's not an issue. Same way it's not an issue in school, in extracurriculars, etc. Basically, doesn't matter. There have been a few daft people who have made the "assumption" that a guy skater has to be gay ... but, then again, I've had the same assumption thrown at boys who play instruments, and girls who play hockey! You are what you are. We've never felt the need to discuss his preferences with anyone, or worry about what people will think. He's our kid, and whatever he does his fine by us, although, I must admit, I do wonder why his girlfriends have never been skaters - considering the amazing number of gorgeous, athletic, and smart young women he's skated with over the years!
In terms of being noticed ... definitely he is. I have sat in arenas and watched in amusement while hockey dads, moms, hockey players, teenage girls, teenage boys, grandmas ... crowd around to watch him skate, and comment on how neat it is. They don't even seem to notice the even more skilled girls. The uniqueness of seeing a guy doing what he does means that we get attention. The matronly mom raving to her teenage daughter about how "ripped" my kid is had me spurting coffee out of my nose ... Yes, he has pulled some boys along behind him - not just onto figure skates, but, also into better skating skills on hockey skates - seeing the benefit of being able to move on the ice the way he does, he gets them to focus more on edge quality and basic skating skills in our learn to skate programs.
There are no scholarships, really, in Canada for sports ... or minimal at best. However, I do know that he will get a "bump" on his university applications as the shortage of male competitive skaters means that the team who gets a Senior level guy is going to place higher in the inter-university (varsity) comps. They will also find him a nice job coaching or something to help him fund his schooling. But, frankly, none of that matters; he's still that 6 year old boy who needs to skate and jump and spin and fly through the air - he'd do it no matter what. He's got a friend in his late 20's who is exactly the same ... still working on new jumps, spins, and who goes into withdrawal when he doesn't get his skating "fix".
We do have some guy coaches. They're great. But, I would say that having strong coaches of both sex who know how to teach boys to skate, jump and spin have been more important.
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Who else is going to explain to the younger male skaters how to wear a dance belt for shows and tests?
That made me snort.. and I think compression shorts would work fine for most younger boys - grownups of course could make their own under garment choices :)
Our rink has two regular male coaches, and one part time, and one intern, but I haven't seen him since May.
There are probably more adult male figure skaters than average at my rink.. I can think of about 8 off the top of my head that will show up for adult skate or daytime publics, which means I'm probably forgetting a couple I only see semi-regularly, plus there are several more in the earlier levels of LTS who also only skate on the weekends, but all of those seem to be there because their kids are also in LTS (nothing wrong with that at all, it just seems that most don't continue to skate after taking a class or two - I wish more would get the AOSS bug).
I sort of met one male figure skater today who I haven't seen at our rink before.. I feel bad because I didn't introduce myself (most of the adult skaters at my rink try to make an effort to make anyone new feel welcome), but I was in my own world working on things... and I'm shy :)
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I've seen male skaters hit on some women skaters. Ha ha ha. So yes, not all of them are gay.
I also see the 50/50 ratio in the coaching. They teach both figure skating and hockey. Of course, there's nothing "girly" about wearing a blue, loose-fitting instructor jacket. X)
My favorite hecklers are the ones who obviously haven't exercised since high school. They're calling male figure skating athletes girly? Nice. 88)
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ROFL !!! Actually, it was our very female coaches (and older sister) who sorted out that problem in explicit and directive fashion. No dance belt though. Tight compression shorts.
Compression Shorts don't always do the job. Ultimately dance belts under costumes are preferable. Especially when the male skater is older and the costume is form fitting.
Compression shorts disaster. This is a picture of a cycle racing team. It's not a look I want to see on the ice.
I don't want to be banned, so I'm warning you that it's the kind of picture that will either make you laugh hysterically or recoil in horror. For pity's sake, don't click on this and then go complaining to the moderator. There's a reason I'm just posting the link. It's an awards ceremony from a bike race.
https://lh3.ggpht.com/-0FXDrbhT3-M/TbvzdOMTszI/AAAAAAAACoE/9sWdDOcVXg0/s1600/why-bike-shorts-should-be-black.jpg
As an observer, the dance belt look is far more preferable, especially for adult males.
(http://balletnews.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Stella_Abrera_and_Gennadi_Saveliev_in_Alexei_Ratmansky_s_Seven_Sonatas.__Photo_Gene_Schiavone-700x486.jpg)
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Compression Shorts don't always do the job. Ultimately dance belts under costumes are preferable. Especially when the male skater is older and the costume is form fitting.
Compression shorts disaster. This is a picture of a cycle racing team. It's not a look I want to see on the ice.
I don't want to be banned, so I'm warning you that it's the kind of picture that will either make you laugh hysterically or recoil in horror. For pity's sake, don't click on this and then go complaining to the moderator. There's a reason I'm just posting the link. It's an awards ceremony from a bike race.
https://lh3.ggpht.com/-0FXDrbhT3-M/TbvzdOMTszI/AAAAAAAACoE/9sWdDOcVXg0/s1600/why-bike-shorts-should-be-black.jpg
As an observer, the dance belt look is far more preferable, especially for adult males.
(http://balletnews.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Stella_Abrera_and_Gennadi_Saveliev_in_Alexei_Ratmansky_s_Seven_Sonatas.__Photo_Gene_Schiavone-700x486.jpg)
Oh dear. I almost choked on my popcorn. That's why every ceremony should have flowers!
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Compression Shorts don't always do the job. Ultimately dance belts under costumes are preferable. Especially when the male skater is older and the costume is form fitting.
Compression shorts disaster. This is a picture of a cycle racing team. It's not a look I want to see on the ice.
I don't want to be banned, so I'm warning you that it's the kind of picture that will either make you laugh hysterically or recoil in horror. For pity's sake, don't click on this and then go complaining to the moderator. There's a reason I'm just posting the link. It's an awards ceremony from a bike race.
https://lh3.ggpht.com/-0FXDrbhT3-M/TbvzdOMTszI/AAAAAAAACoE/9sWdDOcVXg0/s1600/why-bike-shorts-should-be-black.jpg
As an observer, the dance belt look is far more preferable, especially for adult males.
(http://balletnews.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Stella_Abrera_and_Gennadi_Saveliev_in_Alexei_Ratmansky_s_Seven_Sonatas.__Photo_Gene_Schiavone-700x486.jpg)
I have to agree with you AgnesNitt ;) Definitely dance belt all the way!!
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Agnes, male figure skaters do not wear ballet tights. It's against the rules.
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Of course they don't. But depending on how fitted the pants are, and what they're made out of, it can be just as bad. I remember a Regionals we hosted once, with a young man on the podium in white lycra pants that definitely would have benefitted from the use of a dance belt. I wondered what his mother thought of that photo - not exactly something you were going to display on the mantel.
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In my area, it seems skaters and skating families look up to and respect both boys and male and female adults. The adults because the skating parents see skating as something they could never do, and they're amazed another adult is out there taking those risks. And boys/men because their programs are something different to watch after watching so many females, and they're seen as courageous for taking on such a female-dominated sport and putting up with assumptions about their sexuality.
There definitely seems to be an assumption in our area that almost all male skaters are gay. To some degree, you can understand why that stereotype exists, because many of the adult male skaters I know are openly gay. Our rink is probably more public than most. We have large windows so people walking by outside stop and watch, and we also get people who come in just to watch. Because it's so public, I do worry a little bit about our male skaters. If some homophobic nutcase is watching a young male skater and assumes he's gay, I worry about what could happen when the skater walks out of the rink alone.
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Black pants color is popular for a reason, even for unitards.
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Agnes, male figure skaters do not wear ballet tights. It's against the rules.
Sorry. It was the first picture I pulled. I'm lazy. I know ballet tights are against the rules, Brian Boitano was just too hot in them.
Of course they don't. But depending on how fitted the pants are, and what they're made out of, it can be just as bad. I remember a Regionals we hosted once, with a young man on the podium in white lycra pants that definitely would have benefitted from the use of a dance belt. I wondered what his mother thought of that photo - not exactly something you were going to display on the mantel.
Nick, Clarice is correct. I've actually seen instructions for local ice shows that say "Dance belt required". As far as I know, neither USFSA or ISU requires them for competitions. I'm sure one of our knowledgeable rule specialists can say.
Now for some illustrations. All these male skaters are assuredly wearing dance belts.
(http://www.celebritiesheight.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Johnny-Weir.jpg)
(http://www1.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Cup+Of+China+Figure+Skating+6ObfbY5mmH2l.jpg)
(http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/images/9/2007/04/medium_hederskating.jpg)
In fact the use of dance belts in Blades of Glory was specifically mentioned in the DVD extras by Will Ferrell...something about pain.
Black pants color is popular for a reason, even for unitards.
So true. Speaking as a woman, if I was getting in some of those ice dance positions where I had to grab his leg, balance on his leg, pass between/over his leg(s), I'd prefer my partner wear one.
Speaking as a straight woman observer, an adult man in a tight costume without a dance belt is too distracting.
And does any man really want to skate and know that the predominantly little girl audience at an ice show, every little girl can see the outline of the naughty bits? Preventing that is one of the reasons dance belts exist.
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Compression Shorts don't always do the job. Ultimately dance belts under costumes are preferable. Especially when the male skater is older and the costume is form fitting.
Compression shorts disaster. This is a picture of a cycle racing team. It's not a look I want to see on the ice.
I don't want to be banned, so I'm warning you that it's the kind of picture that will either make you laugh hysterically or recoil in horror. For pity's sake, don't click on this and then go complaining to the moderator. There's a reason I'm just posting the link. It's an awards ceremony from a bike race.
https://lh3.ggpht.com/-0FXDrbhT3-M/TbvzdOMTszI/AAAAAAAACoE/9sWdDOcVXg0/s1600/why-bike-shorts-should-be-black.jpg
I particularly got a laugh out of the guy on the far right. The plant appears to pointing at his exposed parts.
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Okay. Dance Belts. First, there are the padded ones - those ballet dancers are really NOT that shape. Then, there are the ones that have the straps holding them on; they look awful under tightly fitting pants, as you can see the straps. And, well, there is comfort too. Chafing. 'nuff said.
Plus, there is another small personal choice in terms of costuming: my son, and his coaches, would never put him on the ice in anything that tight in the crotch. Not happening. Yes, Jonny Weir can do it; and that one pic is from Blades of Glory, where they were spoofing ridiculous male skating attire!
Compression shorts are not all the same. The - control - and - compression - on some is quite substantial. Some, yup, not much better than the lining on a pair of running shorts. We use the ones that - well - hold things very snug and secure - actually, the physio recommended them to prevent groin pulls as the level of - control and support - is that good.
You know, the things I've learned as the mom of a skating male ... then again, my husband can also do butt checks on skating dresses, and is "qualified" to evaluate the neckline of skating dresses for fit, form and "display" in the spiral position ...
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There's a reason I'm just posting the link. It's an awards ceremony from a bike race.
Ummmk, but the norm is to go commando under bike shorts... so IMO that is not a fair comparison at all. Yes, some colors/fabrics are MUCH more revealing than they could or should be, but suggesting that men should wear a dance belt under their shorts is just ludicrous - I challenge you to ride 100+ miles wearing a thong. You couldn't pay me enough to even try it... even wearing regular undies is a bad idea because the elastic seams can cause chafing.
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we have 2 rinks in our city and as far as i know we have only one adult male. he happens to be gay. at my home rink we have 2 boys, one is a teen and the other is about 10 to 12.. i have no idea what their sexuality is and don't care to know. we have 2 male coaches. one of them has been around for a few years and the other just started here about 10 months ago. I know one male coach teaches at both rinks. i wish there were more male adults as i would love to skate pairs but i know that is only a dream.. i am way to big/heavy to be lifted.
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Someone on this board pointed out that there is another type of "freestyle skating", usually done in hockey skates with hip-hop music and moves. If you search youtube for
xtreme freestyle ice skating
most of the skaters are male. Don't know how many are straight.
(Love to see my rink offer lessons in this, though I could only do the easy stuff.)
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Its true figure skating is associated with girls and females but men are also good figure rink skates with much graceful dancing style skates.
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I think the perceived attitude of most ladies guides what most straight men do.
If most ladies are more interested in guys who engage in obviously high risk adventures than in artistic activities, most guys will do what you gals dictate that we do, unless we were too dumb to see the connection while we were young and less breakable.
(Gals eagerly get together with good ballroom and social dancers, so that's different.)
I wonder if artistry is more acceptable for straights in Russian, Chinese and Japanese cultures...
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I am 24 and started skating at 22.
At my old rink, I skated during the lunch time public sessions. Most of the skaters were male. Most were in hockey skates. They range in age from their 20s to 60s. Many have no interest in hockey and just come to skate. One guy clearly would benefit from buying figure skates. He does lunges and other fancy stuff on the ice in hockey skates. All of these men are "manly men."
Of the two regular speed skaters, one is a female in her 50s+ and one is a male skater in his 40s+. Also on the ice are little children, experienced female figure skaters, a few women in their 50s+, and sometimes families.
I think the primary goal with skating of any type would be to just enjoy yourself on the ice. If you become competitive, great. If you develop a lifelong hobby, great. It's unlikely that anyone will get to a point with any type of skating where it will pay for itself (though it happens.)
At my new rink, I'm often the only one on the ice during lunch time public skate. There are a few female preteens, college students, and adults who come and skate who are regulars. Sometimes one or two male college students are on the ice. And often families with children come. Then there is a male skater in his 40s who just switched over from hockey skates to figure skates a few months ago. He comes occasionally.
If you choose not to skate just because of other people's impressions (people who know little about skating), you ultimately are cheating yourself. You might be the inspiration for someone else to get on the ice and enjoy themselves. Or you might find a rewarding hobby that you enjoy. If I had stopped skating because I was not the age, size, or race of most of the people around me on the ice, I would have missed out on a meaningful activity.
End of rant. :)
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I see teenage boys at various rinks doing spreadeagles (this is popular) and a couple trying 'spin like things', and I think I've seen a couple attempt a waltz jump like thing. Walleys are pretty common. They're screaming to be in figure skates, but their friends or their dads or brothers, or their own mindset traps them in hockey skates.
They're victims of peer pressure. And nothing says "I'm an individual manly man. I can make up my mind and do anything the manly man groupthink tells me to do because I'm a manly individual. Only girly men do what they want to do, real men do what other real men tell them to do."
I think the peer pressure is extending to women too. At one rink I skate at, half the women are in hockey skates, even in LTS. Okay, honestly, I think it's so they can meet guys. Most of them would be better off in LTS at least in figure skates, then switching to hockey skates. Do guys really think a woman is attractive in hockey skates? All that hunching? Ugh.
Anyway, I had a male friend who decided to learn to skate in his thirties. He started out with hockey but as he said, "Once you can skate forwards and backwards, what's left? Stick skills?" So he switched to figure skating.
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I think the peer pressure is extending to women too. At one rink I skate at, half the women are in hockey skates, even in LTS.
I worked used figure skate sales last year as a fundraiser for my club, and I was surprised that several girls in the 9-12 age range really wanted black figure skates. At first my reaction was, "Really? But girls usually wear white skates." Then I realized I was reinforcing gender stereotypes and all that, so I shut my mouth and tried to help find black skates that fit them. We lost at least one sale because of that, because we just didn't have many black pairs and one girl refused to get white.
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I worked used figure skate sales last year as a fundraiser for my club, and I was surprised that several girls in the 9-12 age range really wanted black figure skates. At first my reaction was, "Really? But girls usually wear white skates." Then I realized I was reinforcing gender stereotypes and all that, so I shut my mouth and tried to help find black skates that fit them. We lost at least one sale because of that, because we just didn't have many black pairs and one girl refused to get white.
Women wore black skates before Sonja Henie.Just a point of historical interest.
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I think the perceived attitude of most ladies guides what most straight men do.
If most ladies are more interested in guys who engage in obviously high risk adventures than in artistic activities, most guys will do what you gals dictate that we do, unless we were too dumb to see the connection while we were young and less breakable.
That may be true for you, Query, but seeing as you already engage in a sport that is not popular among most men, you are probably not representative of the average man. Once boys reach the age of 6 or 7, they generally want to be socially accepted by other boys, so they gravitate to "male" sports and activities. It's another 7 or 8 years before girls' opinions really start to matter, so a lot of socialization happens that reinforces that behavior. Then, when they become teenagers,, they see that the girls pay an awful lot of attention to the football quarterback, basketball team captain, etc., which just reinforces the assumption that what gets you respect with the other guys is also what will get you attention from the girls. Unless they are already involved in the world of figure skating, most boys don't even have a chance to see how much attention the few male skaters get from all the cute girls at the rink! Of course, once they've gotten past the peer pressure years and are more secure with themselves, there are a few guys who will try figure skating because it seems fun/challenging. In fact, and I once met two guys in my figure skating class who signed up specifically to meet women (proof that nerds can be excellent strategizers!), LOL!
Having said all that, I really appreciated Sk8mum's take on the whole thing. More power to you! :)
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I have read this thread with a bit of amusement. I am a male skater. A few weeks short of official card carrying geezerhood. Started, I think at 62 or so. Time flies when having fun.
The rink where I stated had two other male figure skaters. Both in the late 50 bracket. One came with his wife. My wife came a few times but decided not to continue.
I visited two other rinks, where I was one of two adult males. Mind you, as a retiree I only skate on weekdays, never in the evening or weekends. Retirement has its privileges. I am self taught, have no tolerance for instructors, classes and such.
Someone mentioned that male skaters are invisible. In my experience not true.
I am friendly with several instructors who marvel at what I accomplished, and are amused at my method of learning.
In fact a few weeks ago at one of the rinks, a coach inquired if I would put together a program for their Christmas show. She thinks I do amazing stuff. I politely declined, that would be WORK. But thanked fer for her vote of confidence.
Incidentally I cringe when seeing male skaters in frilly feminine garb. Regardless of how great they are, I refuse to watch them. Just a personal peccadillo.
Incidentally, my absolute top model for skating skills and musicality is: John Curry. I do keep his skating image in mind when I am skating. The perfect model to emulate. IMHO
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Forgot to add, and, since I don't know how to edit my post on this board: my all time favorite female skater, again in skill AND artistry is Belita.
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Having said all that, I really appreciated Sk8mum's take on the whole thing. More power to you! :)
Thank you ... I've had this discussion with many many people over the years, and it's something we've thought about a great deal ... did he figure skate because of the intrinsic value of the sport, or because we encouraged it? Would he have continued skating if we had been less supportive? Was it because his coach "knew" how to work with smelly, grubby, obstinate little boys? Don't know. I know of so many boys who dropped out ... but also so many girls!
Full credit also to Kurt Browning, Brian Orser, Andrei Rogizine, Paul Poirier, Asher Hill, and Patrick Chan, who all, over the years, have dropped words of encouragement into his ears and given him positive role models on the ice, when we've been lucky enough to skate with them or do seminars ... the guys are great in supporting each other ... and at his level, the tight little crew of "guys" who have been skating and competing against each other certainly have each others' backs.
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Forgot to add, and, since I don't know how to edit my post on this board: my all time favorite female skater, again in skill AND artistry is Belita.
Dating yourself dear. ;)
You can find a couple of her movies on netflix streaming. And some of her routines on youtube.
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seeing as you already engage in a sport that is not popular among most men, you are probably not representative of the average man.
Ouch!
most boys don't even have a chance to see how much attention the few male skaters get from all the cute girls at the rink!
Where I skate, freestyle girls are either too serious about their skating to flirt at the rink, or they congregate together, or they flirt with hockey boys. A bit older, and they have already married, outside their sport. Your rink must be different from mine.
AFAICT, when gals are approached by guys at an ice rink, they usually complain of being "hit upon". Ladies tend to be more open to male attention at dances, parties, or, oddly enough, in male dominated outdoor recreation sports. Maybe bars too.
But I guess you are right, young boys don't need girls' approval. I was thinking of guys who start when they are older.
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Dating yourself dear. ;)
You can find a couple of her movies on netflix streaming. And some of her routines on youtube.
Never a problem, more like lifetime achievement. 65 in 24 days.
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The real truth is that human beings are much too complex and varied for simple theories to have complete validity.
Nonetheless, let me advance a formal theory, based on a set of assumptions, for which I have no statistical support:
1. LTS is usually taught by monkey-see-monkey-do techniques. Strong emphasis is placed from the very start on precise imitation. Same for other typically female activities like gymnastics, fine art and performance dance.
2. Because skating is an art, the precise way in which you move is important, and monkey-see-monkey-do is very important.
3. At the early learning stages, typically male-type activities are less specific in that way, and more oriented towards figuring out an effective way to produce concrete results. You need to catch or throw or black a ball (or puck) effectively, beat someone up effectively, annoy other people effectively, or figure out how to change word problems into equations. The exact way you do these things does not matter at first.
EDIT: 3.5 Female-type sports require better balance. Male-type sports require more upper body strength.
4. On average, females are initially slightly better at monkey-see-monkey-do learning.
5. On average, females initially find it slightly easier to balance.
6. On average, males are initially slightly better at analytic abstraction.
7. On average, males initially have slightly stronger upper body strength.
8. Kids, teens and adults are all easily discouraged by skill which they perform worse than their peers.
9. Kids, teens and adults all work harder to master skill which they perform better than their peers.
10. In most cultures where it is economically possible to master leisure skills, beginner classes are usually coed.
Conclusion: On average, females will be more interested in mastering artistic skills like skating that are taught by monkey-see-monkey-do techniques, or which require balance. On average males will be more interested in mastering skills in which you must figure out what to do, or use upper body strength.
8 and 9 are very important, because they emphasize slight differences.
I am least certain of assumptions 4-7.
Comments?
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I'm male, 38, and started skating a year ago. For me figure skating is something I have always wanted to do. Whether it was fear, my childhood religious training, lack of confidence, or just the grind of adult life, or what..maybe all of the above, kept me from pursuing this desire.
Last year I just said "Its now or never" and went out skating on broken down figure skates from the Thrift Shop. All I did was wobble around the rink and fall, but hey! No pain no gain 88)
Late last year skates fell apart and finally found a pair of Jacksons, new, that fit. World of difference!
Anyhow, as a man learning to figure skate, I'm the only one at the rinks I skate at. I just go to mid-week public skating, and all I normally see are people in hockey skates doing laps (is that not boring as h-ll?). Once in a while I'll see a female figure skating, but no other men. Since skating opened up this autumn I've gone from just stroking forward and one foot glides to forward inside/outside 3 turns, brackets, forward changes of edge, choctaw, forward inside and outside 8's, crossovers, T stop l and r, spirals. I skate 3-4 hrs/wk on my days off. I had a coach lined up and we had one lesson, but then she moved away. Still searching...
I purchased the DVD Figure Eights by Karen Courtland Kelly and it has been invaluable as a tool. It helps me to see each element and then I can walk through it on the floor and when I'm on the ice I visualise it and it just comes to me. The intense satisfying rush that comes from executing a turn cleanly is worth a dozen falls. For me the challenge of school figures is something I can really get into. I work on them for an hour every time I skate at a 2 hour public session. I have a scribe I designed and built, aluminum collapsible with a folding handle, but at the public skates there are people skating through your figure all the time and no place to leave it safe, so I don;t use it.
I wish there were some way I could belong to a skating club, and get involved in adult competitions, but I work full time, and I doubt such a system exists here in Ontario. All the little kiddies and teenyboppers have their Skate Canada clubs, but there is no place in their system for someone like myself. The club nearest to me refused to return my enquiry, and the next nearest club only offers ice time and coaching during working hours...when you work a 12 hr day that includes anything before 8pm :(
For adult men it is an odd sport to take up, but it is intensely physically demanding. I work out and weight train 5 days a week, I eat like an athlete would. I've never been in better shape, and I've always been slender and strong at 6ft tall. I'm addicted to it :blush:
Not married, and no girlfriend, but I'm not gay. Just sayin', as that topic has come up in the thread. I'm a loner I guess, last girlfriend was 16 yrs ago :o
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The club nearest to me refused to return my enquiry, and the next nearest club only offers ice time and coaching during working hours...when you work a 12 hr day that includes anything before 8pm :(
Instead of contacting the clubs, contact the coaches. There are plenty of coaches out there who are desperate for more students and would be willing to work at any time. Coaches probably know more about when and where you can find ice too. You probably don't need club ice yet anyway.
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Instead of contacting the clubs, contact the coaches. There are plenty of coaches out there who are desperate for more students and would be willing to work at any time. Coaches probably know more about when and where you can find ice too. You probably don't need club ice yet anyway.
The skating clubs in Canada are more in charge than those in the US. He probably does need to join the Club to arrange lessons. Best bet is to find out when they meet and ask for info.
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I'm male, 38, and started skating a year ago. For me figure skating is something I have always wanted to do. Whether it was fear, my childhood religious training, lack of confidence, or just the grind of adult life, or what..maybe all of the above, kept me from pursuing this desire.
I wish there were some way I could belong to a skating club, and get involved in adult competitions, but I work full time, and I doubt such a system exists here in Ontario. All the little kiddies and teenyboppers have their Skate Canada clubs, but there is no place in their system for someone like myself. The club nearest to me refused to return my enquiry, and the next nearest club only offers ice time and coaching during working hours...when you work a 12 hr day that includes anything before 8pm :(
You certainly should be able to find a Skate Canada club in Ontario that will allow you to join as a Skate Canada member. There is an adult track in Skate Canada that definitely allows you to compete as an adult. It starts, right now, at age 25 and up ... there is a new track coming in for 18 - 25.
As a Skate Canada member, you will also be able to use "ticket ice" which is figure skating ice reserved for SC members. This is way better than public skate ... you really can't practice patch (figures) on public skate, or figure skating ... this differs from the US system.
I know of many clubs who run adult programs and/or welcome adult members at all levels from absolute beginner to long term skater just skating for pleasure - or competing. Many run sessions at night and on the weekends. My home club has an active adult session ... with absolute beginners and "real figure skaters" - including some guys.
I know the COS, EOS very well - WOS a bit - and NOS, not well, but, there is a Section office that can help you. A Skate Canada coach cannot coach you unless you are a Skate Canada member ... so, the first step is getting you a membership at a club. Then, you have access to all of the Skate Canada programs, and can start moving forward further with your skating. Where did you look to find a club? Without knowing your region ... you can PM me if you don't want to post it publicly.
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ONSkater, like Sk8mum said there are some clubs with adult programs. I know of a club in Toronto which is predominately an adult club. Ticket ice would be a great way to go. Public skating in Canada is not what public skating is in the US. I always get in trouble for "figure skating" on public sessions.
WOS is a very pro adult Section with lots of clubs offering adult programs. They have the biggest contingent of skaters typically at Adult Nationals.
Hope you can find somewhere to skate. If you have a fair bit of money to shell out my club has a very healthy adult program and even offers a figures class.
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Lots of suggestions here. Thanks.
I did contact a Skate Canada coach, arranged a meeting, showed up, and no coach.... ???
Finally the club president came over handed me a brochure and basically told me to get lost. Either I skate with them on their terms or I'm consigned to outer darkness and gnashing of teeth. They are the only game in town, very elite, very complex structure, no one dares work outside the official system...except a few jaded souls who skated professionally in ice shows and so forth. The club ice times are etched in stone, and they all are during working hours, as I said when I work I'm not home until late.
Public midweek skating where I am is pretty much "whatever you want", no policing. I wish there was someone to apprehend the idiot young adults (teenage couples home for reading week?) playing tag and crashing into you. I can usually find a quiet spot to lay out my figure. People still skate through it but that's ok. Weekend public skates are just a madhouse with 500 kids blindly charging around and chatting in groups...I never go!
I've come pretty far with the little bit of coaching I've had. I'm a self starter, and I like crossing barriers. I'm in south eastern ontario halfway between Toronto and Ottawa, a bit closer to Toronto. Lived in Campbellford for 15 yrs but now live along the lakeshore. 6 rinks within a half hour drive or so.
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Okay, what is sad is I know EXACTLY what club you referred to ...
Anyways, that makes you in EOS. Have you been on their website? You can also contact their office ... and ask them for the clubs that are in driving distance. It's a part of the Section that I'm not as knowledgeable about, as I'm more COS-centred. There are links there to all of the area clubs, and they usually have their schedules online.
www.skate-eos.on.ca
Let me know how it goes - if it doesn't work out, I can do a bit more digging for you.
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The club ice times are etched in stone, and they all are during working hours, as I said when I work I'm not home until late.
I don't know when do most figure skaters practice in Canada. Around here working adults without extended lunch breaks usually try for the 5 / 6 / 7am practice sessions. Yes they are either early or crowded, or both.
When do most kids figure skate in your area, other than afternoons?
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jjane, The schedule they gave me has all sessions between 5-7pm, after school/early evening. This is when the kids skate. There are no other times. afaik the rink does not open until 8am... ??? Could be wrong on that.
I skate on my days off at midday, midweek "Mom and Tots" (isn;t that a wee bit sexist and quaint? its usually Dad and Tot if there are any tots at all..) public skates. Not many people, sometimes I'm the only one.
Laid out three figures today on the hockey lines, hardly anyone there, and nobody using the middle...just senior "lappers"circumnavigating the rink.
I want to say that I'm used to being a man in female dominated activities. Up until 2 years ago I was a horseback rider. I fell in love with horses at summer camp age 10. From then on I had a pony, then a succession of horses (lived on a farm), eventually owning as many as eight at once, breeding mares, stallions, and boarding for others. I began riding Western but switched to English in my early 20's. took dressage lessons, taught myself jumping, hunted with the local hunt club (kennels were next door and I was the "guesting landowner" as they exercised and rode on my place). When I got the internet I would go on an equestrian forum and be literally bashed and beaten by all kinds of women who, having taken a few lessons on a leased horse and entered a competition, now was the ultimate expert on everything equine... 88) 88) How could a man possibly have anything useful to contribute :o
It is a bit tedious. So I'm okay with working outside the Box. The world is a big place, and no one can stop me from skating except myself :) I just do my own thing.
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I don't know when do most figure skaters practice in Canada. Around here working adults without extended lunch breaks usually try for the 5 / 6 / 7am practice sessions. Yes they are either early or crowded, or both.
When do most kids figure skate in your area, other than afternoons?
Some of this is sweeping generalization, but, it applies to about 95% to 98% of the situation that applies here ...
In Canada, figure skating ice access doesn't run the way the US system does. You don't have ice to figure skate on unless you belong to Skate Canada. All clubs book and pay for ice for their members that is exclusively for their members; members register as part of the club, and then can use the ice. GEnerally, you register for a session or more based on your skating level - and the club controls who can use that ice and how many are allowed on.
There is no "public" figure skate ice. If you are a Skate Canada member, and there is what is generally called "ticket ice" in Ontario, you can then use it for skating - you register and pay. However, you are not allowed to use it unless you are registered with SC, due to liability issues, and there can be controls for skating level and numbers on the ice. Also, if you have not passed Canskate (LTS) Stage 5 - you must wear a helmet on all SC ice.
Most clubs run ice in the evenings and on weekends. Clubs in our area run ice up to 10 or 10:30 at night, and some start as early as 6:30 a.m. on weekdays and 8 a.m. on weekends. A few "skating academies" have ice during the day. But, again, only for club members, and these are often elite skating establishments.
You are not allowed to figure skate on public skates. They are strictly for leisure and skating in circles. Someone doing figures is likely to be forbidden, too, as you must, simply, skate in circles in the same direction as everyone else.
So, long and short of it is: you have to join a club to get ice, and a SC coach basically is not supposed to coach you unless you are a SC member.
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Exactly so sk8mom.
I booked and paid for an hour of ice with my private coach. $100.00/hr and the rink is all yours... ;)
Thankfully I've been figure skating at public skates for 3 months with no issues. Stay out of traffic and be friendly.
I had a little tyke wobbling along behind me yesterday with starry looks in his eyes...like a puppy. Probably the only man he has ever seen in real life figure skating :P
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If you are on Facebook, search for Canadian Adult skaters,or Canadian Adult Nationals , something like that and there are definitely adult skaters in your area.
Many rinks have daytime ice , dead ice, for cheap, you just have to know the secret password and the right rink guy. Coaches know them all as well.
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I know this is an old thread. But I asked a relative who is a psychologist if there is a reason skating might be easier for women than men.
She said it is commonly accepted by psychologists that men are usually better at large motion skills (like swinging a bat), and women are better at fine motion skills (like needlepoint).
Skating involves both. But, as an artistically judged sport, maybe small distinctions determine who is best among elite athletes.
OTOH, I asked her whether male and female sports emphasize those things that males and females are best at because they are typically best at them, or vice versa - i.e., which is cause and which is effect. She said psychologists have no consensus on those sorts of questions.
So maybe it isn't an answer at all...
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...if there is a reason skating might be easier for women than men.
Honestly, from a technical point of view I don't really see it, either at the elite level or looking at skaters around me. (except for flexibility, but men are not pressured to do bielman spins, and at recreational level it's not significant as long as the camel position can be achieved)
Peer pressure and social expectations on the other hand...
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She said it is commonly accepted by psychologists that men are [u[usually[/u] better at large motion skills (like swinging a bat), and women are better at fine motion skills (like needlepoint).
Wow! Who knew the field of psychology was so sexist? Fine motor skills are required for many professions which had been male dominated (i.e., neurosurgery.) It's this type of stereotyping which can hold someone back from pursuing an interest/passion.
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...and as long as I'm wearing my glasses, I can hand sew a seam that looks machine stitched.... 8)
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I know this is an old thread. But I asked a relative who is a psychologist if there is a reason skating might be easier for women than men.
She said it is commonly accepted by psychologists that men are usually better at large motion skills (like swinging a bat), and women are better at fine motion skills (like needlepoint).
Skating involves both. But, as an artistically judged sport, maybe small distinctions determine who is best among elite athletes.
OTOH, I asked her whether male and female sports emphasize those things that males and females are best at because they are typically best at them, or vice versa - i.e., which is cause and which is effect. She said psychologists have no consensus on those sorts of questions.
So maybe it isn't an answer at all...
I don't think it's a question at all. I don't think skating is easier for women than men. There are certainly more women and girls in the sport, but I don't think that's the reason. I also wouldn't say that skating involves fine motor skills. Edge work is certainly exacting, but you're still using relatively large muscles to do it. It's not at all equivalent to doing needlepoint or playing the piano (activities which are also not easier for women than men). And I'm not a psychologist, but in the psychology classes I took for my education degree I never heard that one sex or the other was supposed to be better at gross or fine motor skills. I think this discussion is based on a false dichotomy.
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...and as long as I'm wearing my glasses, I can hand sew a seam that looks machine stitched.... 8)
Where could I buy these magic glasses? 8) LOL j/k
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Men are expected to land more and more difficult jumps (quads, etc) at the higher levels. Even at the mid levels (Novice, PreNovice in Canada) men's programs tend to be longer and have more jump passes. That is one critical difference.
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Not sure about freestyle, but Ice Dance coaches have told me that there were very fine distinctions made between which body parts move (e.g., small shoulder shifts instead of large arm and hip motions).
Anyway, these kind of questions can't be answered with certainty. I give up.
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jjane... cheap drugstore readers 8) :laugh:
I do think the overwhelming presence of women figure skaters generally is a deterrent to the average "guy" on the street who might not be a skater but who is interested. Frankly for a guy to fall down and wobble around on skates in front of a rink full of women/girls is more than most normal guys are up to. I'm not saying this to justify the fear, just to say that it is an insecurity that most men carry with them. We want to show off our talents/prowess/strength/etc and the curve from 0-60 is daunting when you are skating in a fishbowl surrounded by females watching your every trip and fall.
So unless you can find an all male skating academy...or private lessons at a private rink...there won;t be a flood of guys taking up the sport any time soon. In weight lifting a guy can go to the gym, and feel safe among other guys, they will give him tips, recommend stuff, treat him as equal, etc etc and regardless of his beginner status the fear factor is not there... When I was a young teen I went to the Y to lift weights, and the older guys there were respectful of a pretty skinny kid. The mental perception men carry around... 88)
Figure skating is far more taxing to learn and far more physically demanding than many other sports which men typically take up. Perhaps a lack of patience on the one hand, and time on the other, deters some men? For me, however, the satisfaction of slowly conquering obstacles, tackling each new skill, is worth any initial discomfort I might feel in terms of being the only guy in figure skates at the rink. I do it for me. If people laugh at me for falling while learning a new turn, or botching a turn, then let them laugh... I respect everyone who does their best and displays a sportsmanlike attitude.
Any organised sport, whatever it is, will flourish or falter depending on who does the organising. In Canada, where I live, there is no encouragement whatsoever for adults of either sex to take up figure skating from the organising body, Skate Canada. It is run as children's after-school and weekend activity. The language used on Skate Canada club websites always refers to "parents of skaters", without exception. The intention is plain...bring your kid, pay your money. So unless you start as a kid with parents who have the money to fund you there is nothing they have to offer you. Club executives look at you like you're nuts, coaches won;t touch you, and so very few men take up figure skating because they can;t get lessons. Frankly without lessons from a coach figure skating is almost impossible to learn. Everything Skate Canada does is designed, inadvertently I presume, to discourage the sport of figure skating among the general population. Its a good thing for them they have a gov't sanctioned monopoly on the sport... ??? That way they can maintain it as an elitist, female dominated sport, run by women for women. :-\
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^^^ It's a shame your experience has caused you to have such a negative perception of Skate Canada. Your experience is certainly not reflective of all clubs nor all regions. And, Skate Canada certainly does encourage adults; and coaches certainly do enjoy teaching adults, of both genders; and their is certainly very strong support in Canada for male figure skaters from our governing body.
When I initially took up skating (again) as an adult, I had no shortage of places that offered Adult LTS, and had my choice of coaches ... and, frankly, as a parent of a male skater, I had to fend off poaching and solicitation at a ridiculous rate; there is such a shortage of guys in skating that we were videoed, taped, chased by coaches... granted this is for a developing and then competitive skater, but, we rapidly discovered that the boys were treated like precious commodities and garnered an inordinate amount of support from clubs and SC due to their smaller numbers ... and I have had discussions with more than a few adult male skaters who have expressed similar experiences re: the support they receive from clubs.
In terms of adult programs; I'm not sure where you're seeing only reference to parents of skaters in their material?:
From SC's website, re Canskate (the LTS program that Skate Canada operates):
CanSkate is Skate Canada's flagship learn-to-skate program, designed for beginners of all ages.
When you/your child registers for a CanSkate program at your local Skate Canada club, you also become a member of Skate Canada.
Then, the entire Adult Skate track:
Skate Canada Programs: AdultSkate
Adult skating is growing in popularity and more and more clubs are offering recreational, test and competitive opportunities to this segment of the population. Adults participate in CanSkate, STARSkate and CanPowerSkate programs as well as on synchronized skating teams. Adult championships currently provide opportunities to adult skaters to experience the challenge of a competition in a fun, social environment. Skate Canada is currently expanding its programming in this area.
If you also examine the new LTAD model, you'll see a new adult track for age 18 to 25 in addition to the long-standing track for 25+; and if you look at comp announcements, you'll see adult events; if you get a chance to look at bid packages for comps you'll see that one of the "requirements" to submit a bid is the willingness to include adult events.
I'm sorry you've had an awful experience in finding support from SC. Many others have had a far more positive experience.
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So unless you can find an all male skating academy...or private lessons at a private rink...there won;t be a flood of guys taking up the sport any time soon.
Pools have female only swimming sessions. Maybe rinks should have male only sessions. I'd go, but only because it would be less crowded. "My religion forbids me to skate in front of females, honest!"
(I don't care what the other skaters think of me, and generally they have been positive. The one time I recall being laughed at, it was by a non-skating mom, when I was doing a move for the first time.)
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Name me one club that offers the full Adult Skate program in Eastern Ontario outside of a metropolitan area like Toronto Ottawa or Kingston.... :-\
The front page of most Skate canada sites are full of the PR spin keywords, flagship, all ages, blah blah... Go to the club sites and read the constitution or reg forms..." Parents of skaters must ensure...blah blah..." "when you register your child...." Go to the rink and you have a viewing area full of well-off parents watching their tween or whatever. No boys at all. nada
I suppose if you're a boy skater working your way through the system and doing well...then yes, they want you. Otherwise? Get lost.
I have a job that requires long hours on most weekends and I have to skate on days off. End of story.
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Clubs can't afford to run the full adult skate program, eg separate sessions, because it takes at least 12 skaters to break even, possibly even more and only large areas have that amount. And it's an old discussion but at a certain level of competence adults prefer to skate straight Star sessions.
Canskate is something like 85% of all the skaters in Skate Canada and generate most of the revenue for a club so it is marketed that way.
Some of your concerns about being a man are valid. Parents don't seem to mind adult women in with their kids but will comment, and negatively, about men.
I sent you a PM.
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Also consider taking a road trip for lessons, there are some adult friendly coaches, and ticket ice in the Toronto area and you can go once a month to do a couple of hours. You'll crawl home and it's all very expensive but then you can practice on moms and tots. I'm not making fun of you, I used moms and tots ice when rehabbing from knee surgery a long time ago. People would give me skating advice :) since I looked like a newbie and was petrified of falling.
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Hi slusher, I skate on mom and tot ice all the time 8) Midweek public skating is listed as "mom and tot". Put your change in the tin and skate for 2 hours with only a few others.
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The Canadian ice issue could be a bit off-topic, doesn't Canada have a fair bit of outdoor ice?
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Name me one club that offers the full Adult Skate program in Eastern Ontario outside of a metropolitan area like Toronto Ottawa or Kingston.... :-\
Hmmm ... two in the EOS that come to mind: Whitby runs an Adult Learn to Skate program that does the Canskate program late on Monday nights; and Oshawa has an Adult Canskate that runs at the same time as their kid's Canskate... it runs Sunday mornings. Those are just two that I'm aware of from friends in the skating community ...
There are more in the GTA. But, you were looking for programs outside of the GTA, of course.
BTW: the mom and tot thing? Be very very careful in assuming you can use that - I have seen many people who have been summarily removed from those sessions. Depending on the arena/region/muncipality, it is strictly and only for a parent and a "tot", the definition being an under 8. It's all dependent on the culture of the arena.
Query: Canada has lots of ice. But, you cannot practice figure skating on public sessions. They are just there for skating in circles peacefully. And most "true" outdoor ice is pretty hacked up and your blades are going to be toast very fast.
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Thread split may be really helpful, lots of information on adult figure skating in Canada.
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Canada does have a lot of ice and many many indoor and outdoor rinks but as Sk8mum said figure skating on public session is strictly verbotem. I typically get told not to "figure skate" when on a public session. .outdoor rinks are more lax with their rules. The only issues with outdoor rinks are they destroy your blades since you are skating through leaves and other junk and sometimes it is just too cold to be outside, let alone skate.
From my experience booking ice for my synchro team, hockey takes up most of the available level ice time. It is hard finding ice.
As for Adult friendly clubs I only know the Toronto area so no help. I do know of skaters in Kingston and Ottawa but that isn't close to ONSkater
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Thread split may be really helpful, lots of information on adult figure skating in Canada.
Lol, I think it got off topic because it's possible to know every male adult figure skater in Canada there are so few. There have been a drop off in those that compete, for all kinds of reasons, mostly because life gets in the way. As is true for women though, those that compete are not as burdened with the chores of household and children, they're either pre-kids, post-kids, or not ever kids.
There's quite a few guys that come out to our noon open/adult skate hour. Mostly on hockey skates and are doing it for fitness, skating laps, some occasional drills sort of thing. Lots of seniors, and surprisingly lots of male seniors. But beginning male figure skaters, we don't see them. The beginner guys come out on hockey skates. There's been a few converts, because figure skates are more stable and there's a decent looking rec skate with a figure blade out there that doesn't scream "fancy skater" (just quoting the guys). http://www.jacksonultima.com/en/Index.aspx?product=HARnKAPHW5sukK1a2b3c4d5eCPvikVw1A2B3C4D5E1A2B3C4D5E
Don't laugh, I like Softecs and think they're underrated for beginners.
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Maybe I'm wrong, and everything is truly different in Canada, despite the incredible 5000 rinks a trade organization claims. But maybe not.
Before you assume you can't figure skate in public sessions, just because people in a club say so, try it, before 2 PM, but not during lunch. If no good at one rink, try another.
People here in the U.S. used to tell me you had to skate in clubs to do that too.
In reality, I can often be the only skater in the first 15-30 minutes of a weekday daytime public session (before about 2 PM, though at some rinks not during lunch), and that at most 3 - 7 would usually join me by the end. (Except during birthday parties, and school holidays, which most rinks know about a day or two in advance - ask.) Sometimes the next session, 15 minutes later, would be a figure skating club-run session, putting 20-50 people on the ice, where the members would insist club sessions were the only way to get uncrowded ice or figure skate! And sometimes fancy figure skaters would rent private ice for several hundred dollars an hour at the same rink.
Yes, a lot of rinks have rules that say you shouldn't "figure skate" during public sessions. They usually aren't enforced when you were the only person on the ice, or often below about 10 - 15 people. The rink guard (when provided, which isn't always) usually has a lot of leeway about enforcing rules in public sessions.
You can encourage the leeway by skating courteously. If there are beginners who might be afraid of you, you might explain to them (in rink guard's hearing, if possible) that it is Your (not their) responsibility to stay out of their way, and that they can just ignore you. Take care, give everyone some distance, and don't be a danger to others. You can also quietly ask the rink guard about this sort of thing. You might be surprised how much being safe and courteous helps.
(If you need your own music, or use a magic marker on the ice, that is much harder at many rinks. Plus, an evil rink guard who enforces rules even when you are the only person there can ruin a rink.)
And just by the way - most of the people who skate daytime are either adults or well behaved kids, of the quiet home-schooled variety. They won't tease you much.
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I'm a straight guy and I don't care what other people think of me figure skating. I do it out of pleasure to feel the sensation of "a bird spreading its wings flying freely" (my own words). In fact, my favourite move is the forward arabesque spiral, which isn't even a component in men's program. I just like the aesthetic beauty and elegance of the move, notwithstanding the muscle strain involved. I actually get more pleasure from gliding (and trying to hold as long as possible on one foot) then jumps/spins.
My local rink is built within a shopping centre, so it's like a fishbowl where people can gawk from sides and above. I don't focus on other people and just concentrate on skating. Because every second of ice time is precious in a 2 hr session. There're all sorts of people at the rink. 8) Most hang out with their friends and stop to take photos. Others join hands (5 or more abreast) to form the Great Wall of (name yr city) :laugh:. And the kids don't show rink etiquette by sometimes skating against the direction of traffic or turning in front of you before the end of the rink's length/width >:(.
Just do what you enjoy without gender stereotypes messing with your mind. If you live your life constantly seeking the approval of others, you'll never be happy ;D
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My biggest issue with being an adult male is finding STUFF that you need. You go into some skate shops and there's a thousands dresses, but absolutely nothing a man can use in there (Pants, Unitards, etc.). I've had to go through so many hoops just to get stuff that I need and if you don't have a week or more to wait for it to get to you via an internet order you're SoL. Girls and women do not have this issue. Even ordering skates. A skate shop is liable to have almost every size in every SKU for a female skater, but I've never been able to walk in and buy a pair of skates and leave. I always had to order and wait 3-5 weeks for them to come in (and hope they didn't miff up the size, etc.).
I don't think a lot of people (females especially, not to sound condescending I'm not trying to do that) understand how frustrating that is. Driving 3.5-4 hours to get skating apparel when a girl can go to the next town (20-25 minutes away) just wasn't cutting it.
I've since moved cross country to be in a better "atmosphere" for skating, and that was a huge reason why I moved. However, a female would have never had to consider something this... HUGE... for such a trivial reason.
Additionally, the lack of male coaches at some rinks is a huge issue. Personally, I couldn't even consider skating at a rink or with a club who didn't have any male FS coaches. A lot of woman at the lower levels (in coaching terms) just don't understand the differences well enough.
And to end that, a lot of coaches don't understand that you can't teach an adult like a 5 year old.
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A skate shop is liable to have almost every size in every SKU for a female skater, but I've never been able to walk in and buy a pair of skates and leave. I always had to order and wait 3-5 weeks for them to come in (and hope they didn't miff up the size, etc.).
I think it's not helpful to generalize based on gender. We have a great pro shop in our area but they do not stock every skate for women. I had to wait about 4 weeks for my skates once they were ordered. The clothing they stock, and it is limited, does appear to be geared toward young girls. Not males of any age or post pubescent women. So having to order from them or on-line is something many skaters of both genders and all sizes have to deal with.
Additionally, the lack of male coaches at some rinks is a huge issue. Personally, I couldn't even consider skating at a rink or with a club who didn't have any male FS coaches. A lot of woman at the lower levels (in coaching terms) just don't understand the differences well enough.
Again, making generalized statements is not helpful or even true. Perhaps my home rink is unusual but there are numerous male coaches and I've observed them at nearby rinks as well. I do agree it is a totally different skill set to teach adults versus children how to skate. I consider myself one lucky beginner to have a male coach who teaches only adults from LTS through FS.
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ITA about gender remarks; they come across as if the poster has a chip on his/her shoulder, to be honest.
Inventory is a business dilemma: it's expensive to keep a lot of inventory on hand and most pro shops aren't making *that* much of a profit to afford the storage and carrying costs. (Not to mention the space)
Our pro shop isn't big and other than the rec skates, they don't keep a lot of skates in stock. Most of my skaters have to order their skates, both the boys/men and the girls/women, so that initial "discriminating against men" theory is out. The clothing selection is also geared towards the younger skaters. It makes sense: there are fewer adult-sized skaters. Stocking clothing in that size means the items sit on the rack for a long time until the right buyer comes along. In the meantime, the clothes are being pawed over and get dusty, which means they sit there longer. I have ordered clothing and equipment through the pro shop, just to help keep the lights on, but it took longer to receive the orders and returns/exchanges were easier to do with an online shop.
We had a great clothing shop for skating/dance/gymnastics about 30 mins away and I preferred it to our rink shop, which is much smaller. Neither kept/keeps a lot of skates in inventory. Unfortunately, the specialty shop's wide selection of clothing in many sizes put them under and they went out of business during the recession.
A coach who teaches children differently than adults? Thank goodness. I can remember overhearing a male coach tell a budding teen to put their t**s on the table during a camel entrance. Works great for the adults, he claimed when the girl's mom complained. (Because the one adult woman skater he used it on giggled because she was crushing on him.) Frankly, I would have told him off if he had said that to me at any age. It's inappropriate.
What is appropriate is for a coach of any gender to identify what the skater's learning style is and adapt their teaching methods to it, whether it be visual, auditory, or repetition. Adults will always ask for more details, kids typically just wanna keep trying it.
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GoSveta/Nate is entitled to his opinion and to limit his coaching choices to appx. 25% of the available coaching population. Men are in the minority as both skaters and coaches. We don't have any male coaching staff at our rink. Some men guest-coach at our rink before comps/tests, but the students take their regular lessons at other rinks or work with our staff coaches and do a few prep lessons with the men.
I do think that male skaters at the Juvenile/Intermediate level benefit from working with a male coach on certain things, such as a spin coach or a jump coach, just to outline the body alignment issues that are different than those of girls/women. That's for IJS-level skaters, not for someone still working on their singles.
However, the primary coach doesn't need to be a matching gender to be effective: look at Jason Brown and Kori Ade.
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My rink must just be bizarre. Of our registered coaches, 5 are male and 1 is female. The female mostly subs LTS though, I think she has 1 private student. The three coaches who make their full time income coaching are male, the other two men are part time and have a few private students and do LTS.
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Not so bizarre. We have ~10 male coaches, only one of which has a non-skating job that I am aware of. Females are more numerous. My rink is unusually diverse. We even have an african american male coach.
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We have lots of male coaches too. A man that I skate with sometimes used to have me come into skate with him because there were no female dance coaches.
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Guys jump and spin differently once physique begins to differentiate. Once puberty hits, a coach needs to know how to accomodate that. Which means that they have to have experience in successfully coaching male skaters.
Being female doesn't mean you can coach females. Being male doesn't mean you can coach males. Gender doesn't determine coaching ability: knowledge, teaching ability and skill does.
We were lucky to find coaches who knew how to coach a male jumper. It made a difference.
Spins - you need somebody who knows how the male body bends, and the male spin variations. That can be either a male or a female coach. We did have a male coach that taught spins, but he was an excellent spin coach, and was equally successful with male and female skaters, as he had experience with both.
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Guys jump and spin differently once physique begins to differentiate. Once puberty hits, a coach needs to know how to accomodate that. Which means that they have to have experience in successfully coaching male skaters.
Good point! I would think it really does not matter until doubles / higher spins. Definitely non-factor at LTS.
And as many of you pointed out, it's about the coach's knowledge and technique, not gender.
My rink is unusually diverse. We even have an african american male coach.
Our skaters are equally diverse :) More male African American coaches if you also count Larry Holliday and skaters who sometimes coach :)
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if you also count Larry Holliday
I've only seen him in summer? Maybe?
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I really could care less for opinions, and it's not generalization. It's the truth. The sport is female dominated, both on the athlete side as well as with coaches. There are coaches who have never had a male student so there are certain issues that they simply aren't experienced in dealing with. At least a male coach who has skated would be able to offer targeted advice with these issues, even if they've never taught a male skater they have likely had personal experience dealing with them. A female probably would be learning on the job, or send you to another coach to fix it (which doesn't happen at a lot of smaller rinks, as coaches are afraid their students will "like" the other coach more and drop them).
When I decided I didn't want to put up with Female dominated rinks I moved 1300+ miles and found a good male coach (thanks to someone on this forum, BTW) and made a ridiculous amount of improvement in a short time largely due to him better understanding my issues and being able to offer targeted advice which was not universal to all skaters.
I have no issues with limiting myself as long as I'm willing to make the move to rectify the situation, thank you :-)
If I get stuck at a level and there is an experienced female coach 700 miles away that can help me get over the hump and improve further, I will just as easily consider that move at well. And why not. This is too big of a physical and monetary commitment for me to take lightly. I have goals, and I need to do what needs to be done to accomplish them.
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There are coaches who have never had a male student so there are certain issues that they simply aren't experienced in dealing with.
Nate, if you don't mind sharing, I am interested in the types of issues you were experiencing, and what specific elements / skating levels they are associated with, if any.
Rinks in my area always have quite a few guys, and I bet all coaches at least worked with boys in group classes, and most in privates as well. If the issues are specific to adult male skaters, then it may be different.
Thanks for a great discussion!
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If there are indeed significant differences in the way males and females need to be coached (and I have no reason to doubt what Nate is saying), I think this would make a good topic for one of the continuing education courses we need to take for our USFS coach certification. I would certainly take it if it were offered.
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I find it interesting that people complain about the lack of coaches. We have two male coaches in our whole state one who has a boy who should place in the top 5 at nat and one who went to nats. That is all we have.
we go to slc to train in the summer and my son takes from a women coach, and she has 3 boys going to nats next week.
we also have no pro shops, no place to buy skates for either sex, no place to try on anything
We also only have lts coaches where we live .You know there are always those who have it worse, at least we have year round ice.
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I find it interesting that people complain about the lack of coaches. We have two male coaches in our whole state one who has a boy who should place in the top 5 at nat and one who went to nats. That is all we have.
we go to slc to train in the summer and my son takes from a women coach, and she has 3 boys going to nats next week.
we also have no pro shops, no place to buy skates for either sex, no place to try on anything
We also only have lts coaches where we live .You know there are always those who have it worse, at least we have year round ice.
None of that really matters to me because instead of putting up with it, I moved and all of those issues you state were worse where I come from and do not exist here.
Now, instead of spending $150-200+ driving to Houston and staying overnight to make sure my blade were adjusted properly on my boot, I drive 25 minutes and have a guy do it and if it's not right I drive back, and it costs like $10 in gas or less.
There are 3 Rinks here within 30 minute (two within 15-20 minutes) and another within 45 minutes or less..
There are like 10 males coaches, and if I didn't like it I could just go to Baltimore, Philly, or Wilmington it's not far. I have one and see no reason to switch in the distant foreseeable future. We work well together.
We have one of the best skate guys here. He's like 30 minutes or less away.
At the bolded: It sounds a bit like an Oxymoron. The fact that you're okay with having "almost none" in your whole state doesn't mean that I have to be fine with having none at all.
Additionally, I can really care how many pro shops there are anywhere. Unless you like in a rather big skating city, they're all bound to be pretty terrible when it comes to Adult Male skating Attire and Equipment. They simply don't stock them, so it doesn't matter.
Lack of Pro Shops was an issue for me because of the amount of adjustments I had to get done to my blades and boots. I have spend thousands of dollars traveling back and forth to get that fixed, and I didn't ever get it put on my boot correctly until I moved up here, had my blades moved back to my stiffer boots and had the guy here mount them. Being able to skate in a boot without insoles for more than 10 minutes is quite a revelation... I don't even understand how I managed to do anything with those SuperFeet in my boots, after feeling the difference.
Chalk it up to a difference in "perspective." All I know is that other people that weren't in my position (a pretty good one) have and probably would have just given up and moved on to something that was productive and didn't cost nearly as much as this sport does.
P.S. Even if there are male coaches, ethics rules make it nearly impossible to discuss skating with them on a technical level so in many cases the only way to power through this is to switch coaches.
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My point is that others have it worse. Can you tell me how you had it worse , since you don't know where we are from.
some people cant move but glad it worked out for you.
And I have a boy skater, I was just telling you at least here girls and boys are the same. I cant drive anywhere, I would have to fly to seattle at least, and we live in North Pole Alaska.
and there are others that have it worse than we do, those in other countries.
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P.S. Even if there are male coaches, ethics rules make it nearly impossible to discuss skating with them on a technical level so in many cases the only way to power through this is to switch coaches.
If you're taking lessons with one coach, you just have to let them know that you'd like to work with a different one. You can set it up to be a secondary or temporary relationship without switching coaches. I've done that with my skaters when needed.
As an aside, the coach you approached might not have wanted to give you free advice and tips. Some people (not saying you) do try to take advantage and ask for coaching with no intention of ever taking lessons. After spending a lot of time giving tips and recognizing that they're giving away their knowledge for free, most will change their policy.
My point is that others have it worse. Can you tell me how you had it worse , since you don't know where we are from. Some people cant move but glad it worked out for you.
And I have a boy skater, I was just telling you at least here girls and boys are the same. I cant drive anywhere, I would have to fly to seattle at least, and we live in North Pole Alaska, and there are others that have it worse than we do, those in other countries.
I agree. Here, the half-dozen male coaches are at rinks more centralized around the capital city. They all coach at multiple rinks within a 20-min radius. My rink is out of the way, so unless someone could promise them a full slate of students to make it worth the trip, they'll only come here for tests and competitions. (Mind you, this is at most a 45-min trip for them, but to commute that far for one lesson isn't worth the travel expense.) It's a business decision.
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P.S. Even if there are male coaches, ethics rules make it nearly impossible to discuss skating with them on a technical level so in many cases the only way to power through this is to switch coaches.
Not exactly. What is unethical is for any coach to approach you and offer unsolicited coaching advice, which is referred to as interfering, or to coach you without your other coach knowing about or approving of it (known as poaching). You going to them and talking or inquiring about taking a lesson is a different situation, and the appropriate initial response from them is to make sure that it's okay with your coach. Assuming it is okay (and it is really very common for skaters to have more than one coach), then there is absolutely no conflict involved. Most people overcomplicate the issue with ethics - from your standpoint as a skater, there's really not a whole lot for you to worry about - you aren't breaking any rules by just talking to another coach. That means it's perfectly fine if you were to go talk to another coach about equipment or clothing or whatever that may effect you differently as a male skater - because it's not related to instruction. If you are asking about something on the ice, then yes the ethics do come into play, but it's really not as complex of a system as most people assume - all it is in place for is to protect everyone involved, not eliminate networking.
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discuss skating with them on a technical level
That's very different from "where do you buy skating pants?" or "should I buy a different brand of skates?"
The PSA Guidelines state that "It is not ethical to give free lessons to the student of another coach."
Having a technical skating discussion is a form of lessons. Doing so with someone else's student, without their knowledge, is unethical.
That's why I suggested he pay the other coach after informing his primary coach.
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fact that you're okay with having "almost none" in your whole state doesn't mean that I have to be fine with having none at all.
None of that really matters to me because instead of putting up with it, I moved and all of those issues you state were worse where I come from and do not exist her
I never said I had almost none ,I have none. I also didn't say you had to be fine with it, I did say that some people have it much worse than you.Again, how do you know if you had it worse than anyone else.If you choose to complain, expect people to tell you how things are other places.
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Like I said, there were no male Coaches in the state I was at. I'm working on Axel and Doubles. I'm not working on any of that without a decent Pole Harness Coach, and those women simply weren't strong enough to hold me up in a Harness. I mind as well just do them without the harness, so that was a Berlin Wall I could not get across.
OK, so on the technical level, ability to coach jumps with pole harness is one issue. Fair enough.
Around here I've seen female coaches using the ceiling-installed harnesses on adults with no issues. There is really just one male coach using pole harness (on a mid sized teenage girl), never really seen anyone else, much less on adult male skaters.
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The one coach at my rink with a pole harness doesn't tend to put adults on it - I really think that there's a weight/height consideration, because it doesn't share the mechanical advantage of a traditional harness.
That said, my own coach weighs probably 70lbs less than I do (she is tiny, and yeah, I'm bigger than I could be).. and she has no problem supporting me on the harness, but because of the pulley it would only take half of my weight to pick me up completely.. that isn't the case with a pole harness. I learned my axel and first doubles as a teenager without using a harness (our rink didn't have one), so I don't necessarily see having one as a requirement to learning jumps. There is a young adult male at our rink who landed his axel in less than two weeks of working on it, and has learned 4 doubles in just the past 6 weeks or so... and I've never seen him on the harness.
I see the use of a pole harness or even a traditional harness as a preference, not a requirement. True I wouldn't even be working on my axel or doubles without it currently, but only because I don't want to injure myself. I plan on working more off the harness once I pass silver moves.
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We are ceiling harness rinks over here too. But our coach didn't use it at all for axels. Even for doubles it's just used to work on position, - they don't want the skater to depend on it. And if she falls, she falls, they don't use it to catch either. My skater has a tendency to bend at the waist when landing the harness helps her remember to be upright.
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Having a boy is not the same as being an adult and dealing with this, children generally only care if they have what they need to get on the ice and do what they need/have to do. Children get this done by their parents, for the most part. The boy doesn't bear the cost. He doesn't miss days of work getting this done, he doesn't have other bills to pay. His only priorities is the activity - for which you provide everything. His only responsibility is training and competing competently. The other stuff doesn't matter, but will when he is old enough and has to bear all that responsibility himself. Yes, empathy does exist, but it's still not a substitute for first hand experience. doesn't matter, but will when he is old enough and has to bear all that responsibility himself. Yes, empathy does exist, but it's still not a substitute for first hand experience. This isn't the first sport I've been involved in, and, while I can see in hindsight my parents had to deal with much of these same issues; I simply didn't care back then and in most cases didn't even notice when I was younger. The only thing that mattered is that I had what I needed when it was time to train.
Again, unclear on how you know how the boy doesn't bear the costs of his skating. He works as a free LTS helper, he just spent the past 4 days working the concession stand for no pay , he gives up things so he can skate. He doesn't miss days of work but he has worked the past 4 weeks at the stand so he can skate . He will work every weekend from now till the end of March so our club can stay afloat.
If you aren't trying to argue, then why are you saying things like you have it worse than anyone else. you are making this be all because you are male. I am telling you as a parent of two kids one boy one girl, they both equally have it the same. She has never walked in and tried on skates, dresses and so on.pretty much every skate has been bought online.
I know we aren't alone and unless you live in a big city girls don't have it much better.
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To be fair mate, you come across as though you're really, really bitter towards female coaches.
Someone already mentioned Kori Ade and Jason Brown. I'd also like to add: Does the name "Christy Krall" mean anything to you? She's got top male skaters lining up out the door to take from her.
I just wonder if sometimes a lot of the problem is not with the coach but the skater. And that's true for both genders.
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Even though several other posters have said the same thing, you really don't seem to get it
YES my 12 year old worked thur fri sat and sunday being a barista, making hot dogs and nachos ,cleaning up, making change and so on. He will work the same schedule next week too .You don't think that counts, he works on a 15,000 machine making lattes and mochas.
You act like you know it all, every time anyone says anything and you just generalize. All I pointed out was welcome to the real world. When he is 18 things will still be the same in our neck of the world, just like they are in many small places. for ANY skater,,, Adult or child, male or female.
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"Bending at the waist (ie dropping the core) is most likely a core strength issue that a harness won't fix no matter how many reminders are given. I don't use a harness for that stuff. I go to the gym."
Um no...it's just a bad habit.
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"Bending at the waist (ie dropping the core) is most likely a core strength issue that a harness won't fix no matter how many reminders are given. I don't use a harness for that stuff. I go to the gym."
Um no...it's just a bad habit.
Agree, my DD who had a good set of abs and does core class twice a week still bends at the waist from time to time and that is a habit.
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Looking at videos from when she was much younger, she did it then and it wasn't corrected. Now she has a coach that doesn't let her get away with it. Even some national skaters have that issue. There is always something to improve! I'd say the only thing her female coach can't do that her male coach can do is become a human harness. He will have her jump and catch her as she comes down to get her body in the correct positions when the harness is in use (she is a kinesthetic learner).
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"you need to shut up and think things through a little"
wow.
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The real world where I had to move cross country to have a better environment for skating?
You really need to drop the high and mighty act. You did not HAVE to move for skating, and I hope you do realize that it was a CHOICE that you made based on your own desires and preferences. You're not an elite level skater, you will never be an elite level skater, and moving across the country to "train" for someone at your age and level seems like maybe you think higher of yourself than you should, honestly. It sounds (from what you have been posting) that you have prioritized skating over all else, and quite honestly I don't think that's healthy or normal for an ADULT skater.
MOST adults have family and other obligations (like a career) that prevent them from even considering making a move just for a hobby - but here you are telling other people that they need to grow up when they are offering honest advice? Do you realize how immature you are beginning to seem in all of this?
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"you need to shut up and think things through a little"
wow.
I know, real grown up right lol
My only point was that I don't understand why its a whole cause Im male I cant do this, this and this. This isn't a perfect world, and the adults where I live have the same issues as kids do. If you wish to whine about how you cant walk in and try on skates,grow up as a lot of SKATERS cant. I realize as bad as we have it, others have it just as bad or worse.
You want to sit on your high horse and say Males have it bad, whatever. Ask the adult ladies how they feel.
Rude and whiny is rude and whiny.
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Cleaning the thread.
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She didn't offer me any advice.
how many posters have told you how you are acting is high and mighty... a few. I guess they are all wrong. The advice I gave you was stop whinning about how hard it is to be a male skater. Its just as hard to be an adult female skater or you know what, a child skater in a small town.
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I'm locking this topic so everyone can cool down.