skatingforums
On the Ice => Sitting on the Boards Rink Side => Topic started by: falen on April 13, 2012, 05:43:29 PM
-
Hi,
What is preliminary freeskate test elements and program passed in Canada equivalent to us tests passed?
-
Use this competition form: http://www.sk8stuffmore.com/comps/11/11mci_bs.pdf USFS basic 5 is like CanSkate 6. Humm...a couple varianeces on the PDF of different comps but still very similar.
-
that's about as clear as mud ;D
-
sk8mum will be a great resource here! I believe she is in Canada. Here is what I found... scroll and you will see the levels and elements allowed.
http://www.skating-wos.on.ca/competitions/freeskcrit.pdf
-
Preliminary is our first level of testing. But,in terms of the "equivalencies " I really don't know. Are you referring to "if they pass a Canadian preliminary test they must compete at" sort of thing?
-
I have usually seen it as being equivalent to preliminary in the US, but every US competition I did (while still living & skating in Canada) listed it's equivalencies in the competition form. Also, Canadian freestyle tests have two parts (elements & program), so you can pass half the test and retry the other part later, which can lead to confusion when competing in the US (this came up a few times with kids from my club)
Most competitions I did (in northern NY & VT) had levels matched as follows (although occasionally they'd put either Junior Bronze or Senior Bronze with Juvenile, or double up a level, so a Jr. Bronze skater could choose to compete either Pre-Juv or Juv...):
| USFSA | Skate Canada |
| Pre-preliminary | No complete test |
| Preliminary | Preliminary |
| Pre-juvenile | Jr. Bronze |
| Juvenile | no equivalent |
| Intermediate | Sr. Bronze |
| Novice | Jr. Silver |
| Junior | Sr. Silver |
| Senior | Gold |
-
If like many others who passed preliminary FS in Canada, and would be competing preliminary Starskate in the upcoming season, they would probably fit best in US pre-preliminary well balanced. If they had passed Canadian preliminary but really had an axel and a double in their pocket for the sake of competing provincials or pre-juvenile, then give US preliminary a try but it really feels like junior bronze starskate or juvenile comp. Put it this way, if they could pass junior bronze elements easily, they would do okay in pre-preliminary. If they could pass senior bronze elements, then US preliminary.
Otherwise if the test was to the minimum standards, look at well balanced tracks.
We have had kids compete in the US and in the first year we did it thought that Preliminary = Preliminary and got clobbered. We haven't been back for a while and possibly well balanced has taken out some of the inequalities.
-
Do skaters in Canada tend to test up when they have the skills to pass the test, or is there a tendency as seems to happen in the US that you need skills from several test levels up to be competitive at each level?
-
It depends on coaching philosophy. Some coaches in Canada sandbag, some move up as soon as they are ready, some move them up before they are ready.
A few years ago, they put well-balanced program rules in place in Canada, which eliminated much of the "I can land a double lutz at Junior Bronze (a low level) - and WIN EVERYTHING!" mentality. This caused less of the failure to test up/sandbagging issue. And, moves tests are wholly seperate from freeskate tests. You don't need to pass our version of "moves" which are called "skills" to move up to test a level.
The other thing in Canada which differs is that our tests are split into program and elements. You have to pass both parts, which are seperate tests, to get a "level". However, you can run up one side without ever testing the other, thus, you could theoretically have Gold Freeskate Elements and be "no-test" on the program side and still compete pre-preliminary! Not that you would want to ...
-
Oh yeah, a small point: CanSkate is the branded name of Skate Canada's learn to Skate program. In case anyone other than myself was confused by the title!
-
It depends on coaching philosophy. Some coaches in Canada sandbag, some move up as soon as they are ready, some move them up before they are ready.
A few years ago, they put well-balanced program rules in place in Canada, which eliminated much of the "I can land a double lutz at Junior Bronze (a low level) - and WIN EVERYTHING!" mentality. This caused less of the failure to test up/sandbagging issue. And, moves tests are wholly seperate from freeskate tests. You don't need to pass our version of "moves" which are called "skills" to move up to test a level.
The other thing in Canada which differs is that our tests are split into program and elements. You have to pass both parts, which are seperate tests, to get a "level". However, you can run up one side without ever testing the other, thus, you could theoretically have Gold Freeskate Elements and be "no-test" on the program side and still compete pre-preliminary! Not that you would want to ...
Sounds very similar to the British system as it's difficult to sandbag with the well balanced program rules. However to compete you need the moves test at the level you want to compete or higher, but you can compete at that level with either the elements or program test.
-
Just freeskate test in Canada. However, the elements portion of the test does have some portion of moves... The stroking patterns must be passed to complete the test successfully, and there are also field moves in the list of elements.
Tests are apparently being changed in Canada...we'll see what it looks like in the future.
-
For those who are interested, the BC/YT Section is piloting the new StarSkate program and all the rules etc. are posted on the website: http://www.skatinginbc.com/technical/technical-updates. The first three updates deal directly with the new program.
-
For those who are interested, the BC/YT Section is piloting the new StarSkate program and all the rules etc. are posted on the website: http://www.skatinginbc.com/technical/technical-updates. The first three updates deal directly with the new program.
Thanks ... had heard about this, but, hadn't seen stuff on it yet. Is there a more comprehensive outline on this elsewhere?
-
There will be presentations at the AGM but likely very high level. If you keep in mind that the changes being made are for the sole purpose of putting medalists on a world podium, it will all make sense. Kids learn tricks, then learn to do them under competition pressure but tricks come first. Skate Canada has deflected any questions about "what about the kids who don't get all their jumps" to the Skating for Life portion of LTAD which is completely undefined, but comprises 90% of all skaters. Lots of open questions still.
-
There will be presentations at the AGM but likely very high level. If you keep in mind that the changes being made are for the sole purpose of putting medalists on a world podium, it will all make sense. Kids learn tricks, then learn to do them under competition pressure but tricks come first. Skate Canada has deflected any questions about "what about the kids who don't get all their jumps" to the Skating for Life portion of LTAD which is completely undefined, but comprises 90% of all skaters. Lots of open questions still.
General consensus in our region is that the program is going to further drive down membership and interest; as it is, more involved and active sports are sucking away our figure skaters (especially the ones who comprise the bulk of skaters) - having them told that they can't do anything "fun" i.e. a program, but, they can go out there and do just the elements, or skate to a predetermined, likely not "fun" piece of music ... is not perceived as a good idea. The Canskate Challenge idea is a good one, but, parents surveyed aren't interested in going to comps which are just "skills" - they want their kids to skate programs like real figure skaters do - so, enrolment in comps will likely drop, further impacting the revenue flow of smaller clubs who rely on their comps (not to mention that the regions are cutting back on the comps already).
If the idea is to put people on a world podium, that's nice, but, if it means that the sport dies off ... then, Skate Canada will be cutting it's body off to try to support the head, and that just doesn't work.
-
General consensus in our region is that the program is going to further drive down membership and interest; as it is, more involved and active sports are sucking away our figure skaters (especially the ones who comprise the bulk of skaters) - having them told that they can't do anything "fun" i.e. a program, but, they can go out there and do just the elements, or skate to a predetermined, likely not "fun" piece of music ... is not perceived as a good idea. The Canskate Challenge idea is a good one, but, parents surveyed aren't interested in going to comps which are just "skills" - they want their kids to skate programs like real figure skaters do - so, enrolment in comps will likely drop, further impacting the revenue flow of smaller clubs who rely on their comps (not to mention that the regions are cutting back on the comps already).
If the idea is to put people on a world podium, that's nice, but, if it means that the sport dies off ... then, Skate Canada will be cutting it's body off to try to support the head, and that just doesn't work.
I couldn't agree more! For our coach the competitions were always the carrot - work hard/achieve this and we'll consider entering xyz competition. My youngest has been hit with this and we've heard that there may still be something for her at the regional StarSkate comp in the winter but so far it looks like nothing else and she is really sad about it (especially as she'll have to go and watch my other 2 compete). She knows that if she works hard she'll get to competitions again in the future but to a little girl that just seems too far away. I really don't think this has been well thought through for the long term of skating as a whole in Canada.
-
I couldn't agree more! For our coach the competitions were always the carrot - work hard/achieve this and we'll consider entering xyz competition. My youngest has been hit with this and we've heard that there may still be something for her at the regional StarSkate comp in the winter but so far it looks like nothing else and she is really sad about it (especially as she'll have to go and watch my other 2 compete). She knows that if she works hard she'll get to competitions again in the future but to a little girl that just seems too far away. I really don't think this has been well thought through for the long term of skating as a whole in Canada.
What level, what region? AFAIK, for the StarSkate challenges it'll just be pre-pre, and no restrictions. There will still be pre-pre with restrictions at other Invitationals I believe, and I did see Intro at some comps last year, which surprised me ... I thought they were gone for some reason. From the looks of the BC model, even if they do still run pre-pre, it will not be truly a program.
-
EOS - pre-prelim B or C (dependant on how her lutz comes along)
AFAIK - there will be no pre-prelim or prelim at invitationals (or any other run section comps except for maybe EOSIC) they have been moved to different comps along with the canskate challenge comps called "future stars" but there is no word out yet on how they will run. If it is a merit thing against the book it won't really interest us or her coach we'd rather wait for a test to be marked against the standard IYKWIM.
-
EOS - pre-prelim B or C (dependant on how her lutz comes along)
AFAIK - there will be no pre-prelim or prelim at invitationals (or any other run section comps except for maybe EOSIC) they have been moved to different comps along with the canskate challenge comps called "future stars" but there is no word out yet on how they will run. If it is a merit thing against the book it won't really interest us or her coach we'd rather wait for a test to be marked against the standard IYKWIM.
EOSIC will not have any "B" or "C". It will be pure pre-pre with no limitations - and it's in Whitby this year, which is in the far West end of the section. Not sure if you've seen the Well Balanced Program for 2012/13, it may be of interest to you - here's the link to the COS page - and it certainly seems that pre-pre is still up and running.
http://www.skatecanada-centralontario.com/Admin%20Coordinator/4%2030%2012%20STARSkate%20WBP%20criteria.pdf
I've got the EOS competition sanction bid form. The Invitationals will be Jr Bz and up, as will the Section Partnered Autumn and Winter Skate (Minto too). The Future Stars will have the pre-pre and the Pre, but, it indicates that they will still be judged OBO for the freeskate, dance, elements, etc., not against the Gold/Silver etc standard. The elements will also be judged OBO, and those would have to be, I would think, Skate Canada judges as in the past.
The Interclubs, though, can run Canskate and Introductory, but, you're correct, judged against the "standards".
My Pre-Pre baby, fortunately for me (already supporting a Novice Comp and a high-test StarSkater) - doesn't want to compete!
-
Yes - I knew that EOSIC was pure pre-pre (that's what it usually is) I was meaning if the changes weren't happening she'd probably be B for the next comp until the lutz is "there" ;)
I had seen the well balanced criteria and the changes are being applied to her new solo so we're all good for that.
This was the last info I was given but I know it was subject to change and there hasn't been anything else given out yet....
http://www.skate-eos.on.ca/Documents/2012-13/12-13_CompetitionSanction-Memo.pdf (http://www.skate-eos.on.ca/Documents/2012-13/12-13_CompetitionSanction-Memo.pdf)
On that link it says the future stars comps will have OBO for pre-pre and prelim but as far as I know that was a bit of a question mark issue ..... I'm sure it will all become as clear as mud!!
-
Yes - I knew that EOSIC was pure pre-pre (that's what it usually is) I was meaning if the changes weren't happening she'd probably be B for the next comp until the lutz is "there" ;)
I had seen the well balanced criteria and the changes are being applied to her new solo so we're all good for that.
This was the last info I was given but I know it was subject to change and there hasn't been anything else given out yet....
http://www.skate-eos.on.ca/Documents/2012-13/12-13_CompetitionSanction-Memo.pdf (http://www.skate-eos.on.ca/Documents/2012-13/12-13_CompetitionSanction-Memo.pdf)
On that link it says the future stars comps will have OBO for pre-pre and prelim but as far as I know that was a bit of a question mark issue ..... I'm sure it will all become as clear as mud!!
I posted just as you were, so we look like we're repeating ourselves! All of the Sanctions have been awarded; the Comp Schedule is up, if that helps.
http://www.skate-eos.on.ca/competitionssub-club.html
http://www.skate-eos.on.ca/competitions.html
-
:)
I'd had a look - nice to hear that there may be a glimmer of hope as my pre-pre baby very much wants to compete (probably even more so than my older 2!) She adores her 1min30 of fame LOL!
Are you EOS or COS?
-
:)
I'd had a look - nice to hear that there may be a glimmer of hope as my pre-pre baby very much wants to compete (probably even more so than my older 2!) She adores her 1min30 of fame LOL!
Are you EOS or COS?
EOS, but, with affiliations, history and ties with COS. Plus, a SC judge/evaluator in the family, and a SC TS as a close friend. So, hot topics over coffee are restructuring, rule changes, SC philosophies etc :) Which is perhaps sad!
-
LOL - at least you will be kept in hot topic conversations ;)
-
My best friend is a SC evaluator who has been in skating since the 1960's. She says SC is going back to the days when the few that could jump got to do solos, and the rest, "patch&precision". Although she says that precision (synchro) is no longer the friendly place it used to be where every club had a team and there was a place for everyone. There's now regional teams and the same thing happens, if by the age of 15 you're not an accomplished skills skater, it is very hard to make a place on a team. We have very fun lunches with alcohol.
I've been on top of the Canskate changes. Imagine the McDonalds of LTS. Every club plays the same music and has exactly the same ice layout format. Exactly. Everywhere.
-
I've been on top of the Canskate changes. Imagine the McDonalds of LTS. Every club plays the same music and has exactly the same ice layout format. Exactly. Everywhere.
Compulsory ice dance?
-
Do you have an insight on what the new canskate badge elements will be?
-
I have a report card. I was hoping someone had a scan uploaded but haven't found any. I'll work on it since it's a paper copy and I don't have a scanner. While looking for that, I did come across this blog which was the perspective of an adult skater receiving their report card for the first time. http://teachingoutloud.org/2012/02/18/its-report-card-time-at-the-milton-skating-club/ A fun read!
-
Compulsory ice dance?
The revised LTS (Canskate) program has very prescribed elements. All of the skills are taught in "circuits" that are given to coaches pre-designed, with detailed lesson plans. The schematics for the circuits are part of the lesson plan ... the coaches are to draw these on the ice with specific markings, etc, and the skaters work their way through the circuits, coached by a Skate Canada professional coach. I've seen the most recent iteration ... my kid has been coaching under it ... and it's insanely complex and time-consuming - I believe it is being revised and rethought, yet again, before final rollout in September. Canskate has been under revision for a few years now ... a few selected clubs have been working with Skate Canada to pilot and test the various theories and practices ... the expectation is that clubs are to follow the specifics precisely, with a target date of full implementation (IIRC) in 2013.
Prescribed music, that I've certainly not seen; it's not part of the pilot program.
-
Sk8tmum from what you've seen of these prescribed "circuits" do you think it's going to result in a better quality skater being produced at the end of Canskate? I'm assuming the goal of Skate Canada is to generate more future champions, do you think this prescriptive formula is going to work?
I also wonder what the coaches feel about this. Having done LTS a long time ago and before NISA developed their own formulaic LTS program, I went through a rink devised system. The elements were learnt in progression, but the coaches had the freedom to teach them how they liked and in whatever order they liked so if the class were progressing quickly with their chasses they could move onto crossovers even if they still hadn't mastered something else at that level. I'm guessing that on a fixed "circuit" that removes the ability of the coach to teach the higher level elements early because the "circuit" doesn't adapt to allow that.
It's interesting reading these discussions about Skate Canada as they echo those being had about NISA. Everyone seems to have the same ultimate goal but differs in opinion in how to get there.
-
a) the coaches don't like it; the circuits are very time-consuming to draw, the lesson plans that SC are providing are more complex (and less understandable) than the ones that I had to develop in Teacher's College, and that I never use anymore as a teacher!
b) The circuits are actually designed to review, reinforce, and introduce. The program divides the rink into teach, review, and practice; in the teach phase, you teach new skills; in the review phase, you review the new and solidify the old; and in the practice, you practice the old and the new.
b(ii) You do have to teach the circuit-of-the-day and with that day's focus (balance, agility, control, etc). There's not supposed to be flexibility to just move on; this is supposed to prevent coaches from "skipping" or not adequately teaching some areas, leading to gaps in the skater's progression, and, also the circuits are supposed to interlock to teach/reinforce/etc.
c) it's less restrictive in some ways than the old Canskate system. With the new, you can move forward on, say, jumps if you're succeeding there, but, continue to work on, say, forward edges at a "lower" level. Traditionally, you worked on the skills at your badge level,and you couldn't move on to a new badge level and higher order skills until all of the skills at your badge level were mastered- which led to frustration for the kid who got stuck. Now, they can move on in some areas while continuing to work on the weaker aspects.
d) it's more efficient in that traditionally coaches assessed for "passing" every time they looked at the kid. Now, assessments are done on an assessment day, by a designated coach for that session, and that helps with consistency; we're now going to comps that are skated against "the book" which means that standards (hopefully) will get more consistent.
It's got good and bad. The key thing though is that Canskate isn't designed to just produce figure skaters - it is also intended to produce strong hockey, etc skaters. Biggest problem is that it is overly complex, coaches don't want to do it, and there is a lot of resistance to change ... however, SC clubs will be required to do it. Don't know, this is the 2nd "relaunching" of Canskate that I've seen since my kids started skating ... :)
-
Sounds like the person (or committee) who designed it didn't account for how long it would take to set up a lesson.
-
Sounds like the person (or committee) who designed it didn't account for how long it would take to set up a lesson.
Apparently based on the feedback from pilot V 3 sub 2 section 3A (just kidding) - they are revising it. They do listen ... and they are actual coaches. Just not certain how much they can revise it, or will.
-
Sounds like the person (or committee) who designed it didn't account for how long it would take to set up a lesson.
Apparently based on the feedback from pilot V 3 sub 2 section 3A (just kidding) - they are revising it. They do listen ... and they are actual coaches. Just not certain how much they can revise it, or will.
Yes, all the coach chat I've had on the subject has been based around the forced regulations of HOW to teach, not WHAT to teach. There's been little complaint of the rearrangement of elements. It is impossible to set up the required circuits stepping on right after the flood.
Skatemum, not all pilot items trialed are done in every club apparently.
-
Sounds like the person (or committee) who designed it didn't account for how long it would take to set up a lesson.
Yes, all the coach chat I've had on the subject has been based around the forced regulations of HOW to teach, not WHAT to teach. There's been little complaint of the rearrangement of elements. It is impossible to set up the required circuits stepping on right after the flood.
Skatemum, not all pilot items trialed are done in every club apparently.
Really? They are supposed to be. The clubs are given the specific directions; the pilot clubs are mandated to follow them completely, without exception and without adaptation, or, they lose their "status" as a pilot club. There are very few clubs that are actually piloting it, however, I am aware of a few who are implementing it without being officially a pilot club.
-
The presentations on new Canskate have been posted on Members only, there is the presentation and a separate clearer picture of the skills chart. It's under the ACGM 2012 tab then presentations.