Anyone in Riedell 2010 Fusion boots?

[Bill_S]

I did a little more investigating today. One thing that I noticed is that the fitter ordered 10-1/4" blades for these boots. I've always been in 10-1/2" blades with both older pairs of Gold Star boots.

I did notice that someone had removed one Fusion boot from its plastic baggie before I received them, and I assume it was done by the fitter to measure for blades. The Fusions measured a little less than 10.5", so I assume that they were the boots by which blade length was determined.



The Silver Star boot measured 10.6" toe to heel.



These boots could have used 10-1/2" blades like my other boots in the past.

Apparently Fusion boots have a slightly shorter sole than the Star series.

[MCsAngel2]

How do the heel heights compare?

[Bill_S]

Great question!

Both are 1.2" high.

[Loops]

Directly measuring the heel height might be misleading.  I believe some bootmakers may cover the upper part of the heel/sole with the upper (see edeas and some risports).

Having said that, these are probably standard heels.  The boot descriptions seem to say "higher heel" or "high dance heel" or something of that ilk when the heels are higher.

I do get the feeling that things are trending towards higher heels so they may become standard.

I'll be honest- I have a nasty bunion on my right foot, and in street shoes can not support even the lowest heel.  I was previously in higher heeled dance boots (risport).  Now that I've switched (and expressely ordered a "standard" heel), I don't notice that much of a difference.  I feel much more a difference in the height of the sides of the skate and the tongue. But we all have our own experience/bodies to deal with.

I don't know what the actual difference is when they say "higher heel" but I bet it's probably only significant to those skating at higher levels, who have a greater ability to push things to a greater limit than I (in the same line as parabolics and other such features on blades).

[Bill_S]

FWIW, my old 2007 Gold Star boots also have a 1.2" high heel. It looks like Riedell hasn't changed that aspect of their boots, at least for the models that I've sampled.

I know what you mean about dealing with individual feet. I don't have a big toe joint in my right foot because of surgical removal back in 2012. I have the fitter determine boot size based on my larger left foot.

[tstop4me]

Directly measuring the heel height might be misleading.  I believe some bootmakers may cover the upper part of the heel/sole with the upper (see edeas and some risports).

Having said that, these are probably standard heels.  The boot descriptions seem to say "higher heel" or "high dance heel" or something of that ilk when the heels are higher.

I do get the feeling that things are trending towards higher heels so they may become standard.

It gets a bit more complicated.  What's ultimately dispositive is how high the heel of your foot is raised with respect to the ball of your foot.  That height depends on both the height of the external boot heel and the height of the internal boot heel.  About four+ years ago, when I was shopping for new boots, a skate tech showed me a Graf and an Edea side-by-side.  On the outside, the heel heights appeared to be nominally the same.  But he told me, that inside the boot, the heel is higher in the Edea. 

[tstop4me]

I did a little more investigating today. One thing that I noticed is that the fitter ordered 10-1/4" blades for these boots. I've always been in 10-1/2" blades with both older pairs of Gold Star boots.

I did notice that someone had removed one Fusion boot from its plastic baggie before I received them, and I assume it was done by the fitter to measure for blades. The Fusions measured a little less than 10.5", so I assume that they were the boots by which blade length was determined.


The Silver Star boot measured 10.6" toe to heel.


These boots could have used 10-1/2" blades like my other boots in the past.

Apparently Fusion boots have a slightly shorter sole than the Star series.

I believe that Riedell uses the traditional guideline for blade length:  target blade length is 1/4" less than the toe-to-heel boot length.  So, the 10-1/4" blade length satisfies this guideline. 

By the way, what size were your new boots, and were they the same size as your old boots? 

Here is Riedell's blade sizing chart; although they do caution that it's a guide, and that the actual boot should be measured:

https://ice.riedellskates.com/wp-content/uploads/Riedell-Ice-Blade-Length-Chart.pdf

[Bill_S]

The new boots are size 7M.

The 2007 Gold Stars (my current pair) are size 7-1/2 M. The sole length on the 2007 skates matches the new Silver Stars at 10.6" despite their half-size difference.

Going way back to 2002, I had size 7 M Gold Stars. They were also fitted with 10-1/2" blades, but the sole length of those was a bit longer at 10.7".

The old blades were selected by the fitter back in 2002 and 2007. They are both 10-1/2".

I wonder if the current wisdom of selecting blades 1/4" shorter than the sole has changed over the years? How critical is it really? So many questions!

[FigureSpins]

I remember comparing sole lengths on two different models.  One of them was "undercut," meaning the boot upper hung over the front of the sole more than the other, like a shelf.  Someone (maybe the late Don Klingbeil) had said that it affects blade length and mounting techniques, to ensure that the bottom toepick is in the exact correct position.

I once wore Gold Seals that were 1/4" too long.  (Poor, starving college student)  The late Bill Klingbeil mounted them with the extra plate length at the front and they worked fine for me for years.  A long time later, I had a fitter go ballistic that Bill did this but honestly, those skates were very stable and my balance was excellent!  (100 lbs, well, 80 pounds now - Yay, me! - so that might have had something to do with the balance, too.)

[tstop4me]

I wonder if the current wisdom of selecting blades 1/4" shorter than the sole has changed over the years? How critical is it really? So many questions!

I remember comparing sole lengths on two different models.  One of them was "undercut," meaning the boot upper hung over the front of the sole more than the other, like a shelf.  Someone (maybe the late Don Klingbeil) had said that it affects blade length and mounting techniques, to ensure that the bottom toepick is in the exact correct position.

(a) I never tracked down any rationale for the 1/4” shorter guideline for traditional boots.   One advantage I've found is if you want to move the blades back a bit, you can do so without the heel plate overhanging the boot.  How much a problem this would be in practice, I don’t know.  But I’m concerned about mounting plates (toe or heel) overhanging the side of the boot, should I fall and strike the protruding side of the mounting plate.

(b) Since blades come in 1/4” (or 1/3" in some instances) increments and boots come in finer increments, you can’t always meet your target length.  Some techs want at least 1/4” gap and will leave a larger gap if needed (e.g., they will go down a size to a 3/8” gap, rather than leaving only a 1/8” gap).  Other techs will be happy with an 1/8” gap (rather than going down a size to a 3/8” gap).  How much all this translates to in practice ... beats me.  You don’t know unless you do an A-B comparison (which in practice nobody does).

(c) Edea has a non-traditional design, with a shorter sole length (relative to traditional boots for a given shoe size) due to higher heel pitch and other design features.  They specifically say not to follow the traditional guideline, and to aim for a target blade length equal to the full sole length.  [It will be interesting whether Riedell uses new guidelines for the Elara and Vega boots.]

(d) Boot designs are getting more diversified, and it’s becoming confusing what “sole length” is in relation to the foot.  As FigureSpins mentioned, in some boots, the front of the uppers overhangs the front of the sole.  Similarly, in some boots, the back of the uppers overhangs the back of the heel.  Adding to the mess, some heels are tapered from the top (where it joins the sole) to the bottom (where it joins the blade):  the total sole length measured from front tip of sole to back tip of heel is longer measured at the top of the heel than at the bottom of the heel.  The relationship of the foot to the blade gets all wacky.

(e) If you haven’t sharpened the blades, and if you really prefer a longer blade, you should be able to exchange them.  Since Tony left, and you are handling your own mounting and sharpening, the shop should be agreeable to do this without charge.  [As an added plus, you can take measurements and see how blade features vary with length.]  This assumes you’re willing to wait another week or so before trying out your new toys. 

(f) I’ve also had an issue in the past with the tech supplying me with a blade that I thought was too short (though he did follow Jackson’s guidelines).  In the future, I’m going to wait for the boots to arrive first, and then specify the blade length I want (rather than leaving it up to the tech).
 

[Bill_S]

I still haven't mounted blades yet, but I have laced the Fusions and wore them in the living room. I'm trying for a head-start on break-in. I'm going to need it because I barely have enough lace length for two hooks.

While not conclusive without being able to tie the upper hooks, I wonder if this is how the tongue will look with trousers when I skate?

(Please excuse the raggedy trousers. I wear them around the house in case I go into the shop to work on something.)



I'll have to keep an eye on that. I'm hoping that it might improve when I can tie the top hooks.

One feature really works well. I can toe-point with the best of them. The padded, low-cut rear on the boots allows for a lot of foot flexing.



As expected they are still uncomfortable to wear after an hour total. I get pins and needles in my feet after removing them, so there's some reduced circulation due to padding tightness. Fortunately, I haven't discovered any pressure points that would require punching out the boots.

I haven't laced up the Silver Stars yet. I've been reluctant to because my wife thinks that I bought only one pair of skates. 

[MCsAngel2]

I haven't laced up the Silver Stars yet. I've been reluctant to because my wife thinks that I bought only one pair of skates. 

Lolllllllllllllllllll

This sounds like something I'd do.....

[Bill_S]

I did just lace up the Silver Stars. The holes for laces are small, the leather is stiff, so it's very hard to push the aglets through them. After a few minutes trying to lace a Silver Star boot, I thought that the aglets might suffer some damage. I went to the shop and used a woodworking awl to stretch the holes before lacing. This worked very, very well.

Last week, I spent a frustrating half an hour lacing ONE Fusion boot, but with the awl treatment, I was able to lace each Silver Star boot in under 5 minutes.

Highly effective!

[Bill_S]

Lolllllllllllllllllll

This sounds like something I'd do.....

Yeah, and it's probably not the last time that I'll do something like that!

[FigureSpins]

I haven't laced up the Silver Stars yet. I've been reluctant to because my wife thinks that I bought only one pair of skates. 

   

Too funny!

You could try not using the bottom-most holes.  That'll buy you a few inches of lace.

[Bill_S]

You could try not using the bottom-most holes.  That'll buy you a few inches of lace.

Excellent suggestion!!!!

Thanks!

[Loops]

....because my wife thinks that I bought only one pair of skates.

   Like everyone else has said, I'm totally guilty of having done the same thing....Pic mounts?  What pic mounts? 

I like FigureSpins suggesting of skipping the bottom lace holes too.  I'd have never thought of that!