USFS silver freeskate - jump sequence

[jjane45]

Between jumps we can hop or have an unlisted jump, but no turns, steps, crossovers or stroking... At least that's how I understand it now.

[icedancer]

I could be wrong because this definition seems to change all of the time - but a jump combo is where you do a jump directly from the landing of the first and subsequent jumps - as in loop-loop - no change of edge or turn in between - toeloop - loop, lutz-loop, etc.

I think jjane's original question is a good one - whether a waltz jump - tap - waltz jump can be considered a sequence and my answer as a judge is that it would probably meet the requirement BUT at the Silver FS level I might expect something more creative.  That being said, a really great, big huge flowing waltz jump - tap- (or maybe a big old mazurka!) followed by another really great waltz jump would be good to see I think!!!

[Live2Sk8]

I have a related question.  The Pre-Bronze and Bronze well-balanced program requirements now limit you to 4 jump passes.  Two of the jump passes may consist of a combo or a sequence, one of which may have 2 jumps and one of which may have 3 jumps.

I was told my program (Pre-Bronze) is ok because I have the following: 
1. loop - waltz:  is this considered a 2-jump sequence?
2. salchow - toe loop (my 2-jump combo)
3.  1/2 flip - toe loop:  would this count as my 3rd and 4th jump passes because of the 3-turn in between so it isn't a combo or a sequence?

I am not really sure about #3.  Very confusing.  We have some artistic competitions that will limit you to 3 jumps, but people I skate against will interpret that as 3 jump passes and have lots of jumps in those 3 passes, whereas my coach will limit me to 3 jumps total, including 1/2 flip or 1/2 lutz. 

I am worried that a judge would say that I have three 2-jump sequences/combos and disqualify me or not count something. 

[jjane45]

1. loop - waltz:  is this considered a 2-jump sequence?
2. salchow - toe loop (my 2-jump combo)
3.  1/2 flip - toe loop:  would this count as my 3rd and 4th jump passes because of the 3-turn in between so it isn't a combo or a sequence?

Not enough experience to tell, but based on discussions in this thread so far I'd say #1 is not a sequence because there is no unlisted jump / hop connecting the two jumps (toe and waltz). What about a tap-toe in between?

#3 probably does not qualify as combo / sequence either because of the turn?

[jjane45]

I think jjane's original question is a good one - whether a waltz jump - tap - waltz jump can be considered a sequence and my answer as a judge is that it would probably meet the requirement BUT at the Silver FS level I might expect something more creative.  That being said, a really great, big huge flowing waltz jump - tap- (or maybe a big old mazurka!) followed by another really great waltz jump would be good to see I think!!!

Thank you! Technically I don't see any reason to disqualify it either. The rule says half or single. Now what do judges EXPECT...

I really want to get beautiful waltz jumps and having the sequence in the test program will greatly motivate me to work on it. Always disliked the look of half loop sequence even for elite competitions, looks too much like a jump mistake, ha!

[techskater]

I don't know, I skate with a talented Senior lady who is putting 3F+1/2Lo+3S in her program and it is LOVELY along with a 3Lz+3T.

I saw a Senior man last year do 3L+1/2Lo(step down)+3Lo as a sequence

[jjane45]

That being said, a really great, big huge flowing waltz jump - tap- (or maybe a big old mazurka!) followed by another really great waltz jump would be good to see I think!!!

I can't believe I actually did a waltz - mazurka - waltz in group lesson before. Gotta love the practice threads...

AOSS: lurve the group lesson coach. Her theme was "creativity" tonight, we played with jump sequences (waltz-mazurka-waltz, half toe walley, half walley-salchow) and spin variations... Fun and scary!!

This is a nice alternative to consider... I want to get a good mazurka (and hopefully improving the toe loop technique). It's not required for ISI, and for some reason always felt very scary. Way scarier than bunny hop!

[jjane45]

Received email confirmation from USFS. They checked with the singles committee and confirmed half loop is legitimate, so is waltz tap toe waltz.

[Doubletoe]

Here's an absolutely safe sequence that adheres to the ISU and USFSA rulebook definition and could be kept for a competition program once you've passed the test:  Start with any listed jump (toeloop, salchow, loop, flip, lutz or axel), followed by a side toe tap or mazurka, then a waltz jump + loop OR waltz jump + toe loop.  You're starting and ending with a listed jump and you aren't including any turns or half loops, so there's no chance for confusion or doubt.  Plus, it's a very easy sequence to do!   For my Silver test, I think I did lutz+side toe tap+waltz-loop, but a salchow+side toe tap+waltz-loop would have been just as good.

[jjane45]

Here's an absolutely safe sequence that adheres to the ISU and USFSA rulebook definition and could be kept for a competition program once you've passed the test:  Start with any listed jump (toeloop, salchow, loop, flip, lutz or axel), followed by a side toe tap or mazurka, then a waltz jump + loop OR waltz jump + toe loop.  You're starting and ending with a listed jump and you aren't including any turns or half loops, so there's no chance for confusion or doubt.  Plus, it's a very easy sequence to do!   For my Silver test, I think I did lutz+side toe tap+waltz-loop, but a salchow+side toe tap+waltz-loop would have been just as good.

Oh oh oh thank you so much! This already sounds much better than any half loop sequence!
Bye bye half loop   

[icedancer]

I like these suggestions - thanks Doubletoe!!

[Doubletoe]

Glad I could help!   Another good thing about jump+side-tap+waltz-loop is that it's a great exercise to prepare Silver skaters for the axel!

[jjane45]

I really like the flip - tap toe - waltz - toe loop. It will be the sequence to practice and over over so I don't get confused over "what's next".

So many jumping passes in this test! 3 solo jumps, 1 combination and 1 sequence. And 2 spins. Don't know how will it work out for choreography.

[techskater]

There are 5 allowed in a competitive Silver program, so they align

[CaraSkates]

Bringing this back up because I am getting ready to test Silver FS. I passed Pre-Juv already and although you would think they would be similar, there are enough differences that are driving my coach and me nuts! She has previously had adults at Bronze and Gold but no one at Silver.

I took Silver FS in November and didn't pass because I didn't quite meet the spin requirements (long story but worst test experience EVER! I had to wait around in my skates for two hours before testing). For my sequence, I did sal/falling leaf/toe loop because this is a strong combo for me. In that program, I did it before my combo jump (flip/loop) and there was confusion about if I intended the sal/falling leaf/toe to be the combo or the flip/loop.

This time around, we are not messing around and the combo jump is first (flip/loop), single jumps in the middle (flip, loop and lutz) and the sequence last (waltz/half loop/sal). We took the turn out of the sequence although I sometimes struggle with the half loop. We are also putting in three spins - camel, camel/sit and camel layback. Plain camel is my weakness, I am much stronger at plain sit or plain layback. When I competed silver I did lutz/loop/toe as a 3 jump combo and no sequence. I am just so frustrated with this test and want to pass - and I know I am a strong enough skater to do it, it is just a matter of doing it in the test!

[Doubletoe]

This time around, we are not messing around and the combo jump is first (flip/loop), single jumps in the middle (flip, loop and lutz) and the sequence last (waltz/half loop/sal). We took the turn out of the sequence although I sometimes struggle with the half loop. We are also putting in three spins - camel, camel/sit and camel layback. Plain camel is my weakness, I am much stronger at plain sit or plain layback. When I competed silver I did lutz/loop/toe as a 3 jump combo and no sequence. I am just so frustrated with this test and want to pass - and I know I am a strong enough skater to do it, it is just a matter of doing it in the test!

Since a waltz/half loop/salchow does not meet the current requirements for a sequence, you might consider replacing it with a salchow/side toe tap/waltz/toeloop.  It's easier and it will count for the test requirement.

[jjane45]

Received email confirmation from USFS. They checked with the singles committee and confirmed half loop is legitimate, so is waltz tap toe waltz.

Half loop is still OK per official confirmation. YMMV... I'd say don't risk it.

[CaraSkates]

Half loop is still OK per official confirmation. YMMV... I'd say don't risk it.

Hmm...I will have to try some different things at the rink tomorrow and see. All three judges did give me credit for sal/falling leaf/toe at the last test, I failed only because of the spins. I will try sal/toe tap/waltz/toe and other variations and see what feels comfortable. I will likely go back to the 3 jump combo for competition so I just have to figure out what will get me through the next two weeks.

I am also hoping for a better testing experience then my last one! It was so awful, all the skaters from my rink swore off ever testing there again. I was supposed to test at 9:15am and didn't get on the ice till after 11am.

[sk8lady]

When I took my Bronze Free a few years back, I included a half loop in case my loop failed. The loop failed but I passed the test--all the judges counted the half loop as a full revolution jump. When in doubt, check the list of jumps at the end of the rulebook--anything with a "1" is a full revolution jump; anything with a "1/2" is not--how else would I know that a split flip is a full revolution jump but a split jump is not? (Not like I've ever seen a split flip.)

[alejeather]

Here's a split flip! http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8_aHukFIfJ4#t=129s

I originally saw one in an old ISU training video but I couldn't find it again. This was the only example I could find. It's like a combination of a split jump and flip jump and is a full rotation. It's a little OT, I know, but I think it's a cool looking jump that you don't see very often, so I wanted to share the video example. Not that you'd be likely to work this into your program if your flip didn't work out!

[CaraSkates]

Very cool split flip! I can not do a split jump so I won't be subbing that in, lol!

Hmm, not planning on trying this for Silver FS, but I did do a falling leaf/mazurka/flip in an artistic program. No idea what that would count as but fun to do!

[Skittl1321]

Here's a split flip! http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=8_aHukFIfJ4#t=129s

I originally saw one in an old ISU training video but I couldn't find it again. This was the only example I could find. It's like a combination of a split jump and flip jump and is a full rotation. It's a little OT, I know, but I think it's a cool looking jump that you don't see very often, so I wanted to share the video example. Not that you'd be likely to work this into your program if your flip didn't work out!

Thought I'd share: Split lutz at 1:13

[Doubletoe]

Very cool split flip! I can not do a split jump so I won't be subbing that in, lol!

Hmm, not planning on trying this for Silver FS, but I did do a falling leaf/mazurka/flip in an artistic program. No idea what that would count as but fun to do!

That would count as a single flip from connecting moves.  The only "jump" would be the flip, but you'd get credit for transitions and a higher score for the flip if done well from a difficult setup.

[CaraSkates]

Thanks for the feedback. That is what I was thinking. It is only used in my artistic program - it fits well with the music and is more interesting then plain flip! My only other jumps in that are plain loop and sal/falling leaf/toe. One of my friends does an awesome walley/2lutz/2loop combo in both her short and long - I know it only counts as 2lutz/2loop but it does improve her score!

My silver test is next week - I have decided to stick with the waltz/half loop/sal as the rulebook considers half loop a non listed jump for 6.0 events.

[jjane45]

My silver test is next week - I have decided to stick with the waltz/half loop/sal as the rulebook considers half loop a non listed jump for 6.0 events.

Yeah!!! Best of luck