LTS and Owning Skates

[sampaguita]

I decided that I needed to buy new skates after I learned how to stroke, and found that my skates slid whenever I do crossovers because the edges just won't bite the ice.

Upon taking the ice with my new skates, I immediately knew that my investment (yes, I bought it with my own money) was worth it -- crossovers and edges were much easier because my skates were sharper than the rental ones.

Hope this helps...

[FigureSpins]

Update: my student had new skates from the pro shop this past Saturday.  I'm still putting together a Top 10 List though, for future reference, so keep those ideas coming!

[sarahspins]

Hooray!  That's a great update

[isakswings]

Sierra, be happy you have ice time now. Don't dwell on or be "resentful" of something you couldn't control. I could do the same thing by saying I deeply resent not having an ice rink locally until I was 10, but instead I look at it like "I'm incredibly lucky I have a mother who was willing to put me in lessons when I was 11 and continue to support my efforts even though I'm not very advanced." She could have just said "Why do you want to skate? You're not going to the Olympics so it's just a waste of time". Instead by her being willing to take me to the rink even just once a week (which for a while was all it was) I found a sport I deeply love. Now I pay for it myself and hope I don't get hurt doing it. But I also look at it now that I'm incredibly lucky to have moved somewhere where the rink is 10 minutes from my apartment rather that 30-40 minutes away and that I'm able to get over there as often as I do even if my practices suck sometimes and I have to fight crowds. So be thankful you have ice time and you have good skates now and that you're progressing now as quickly as you are. Your experiences when you were younger should make you feel better now that you're getting up in levels.

Ok, stepping off my soapbox now.

That is so true! I hope my daughter doesn't ever resent the fact that she lost progression due to my husband being laid off(equate that to less lesson and ice time) and the less then perfect fitting skates she had for 3 months last year... again due to financial reasons. Nice thing is, I think I feel more guilt over that then she does. I don't think she realizes she "lost" progression due to those things. I think the fact she hit puberty annoys her more then the above things I listed. She seems to be more aware of the delays puberty has cost her then her lack of lessons and proper equiptment cost her.

That said, as a parent it is hard to know what is the right thing to do when your child is just begining in this sport. I am happy to see the OP's student now has new skates! YEAH! I hope she sees progression!

[Isk8NYC]

She managed several good three-turns on Saturday and her crossovers were so much better!  Much more control in her skating; now she's just struggling with a normal learning curve without being distracted by the rental skates.  Since this is her second go-round for this level, I think she'll really master everything very quickly.

The skates really took away a barrier in her skating.  I saw her at the mall over the weekend, but she didn't see me waiting for my DDs.  I think she was with her mother, and I didn't know whether or not the mom knew the dad bought the skates.  I didn't want to get anyone in trouble, so I didn't call across to the girl.

[Kim to the Max]

We had a kid who was looking for a pair 6 skates. Her feet are still growing quickly and she was in sports store skates and her mom was actively looking for a pair of used skates. I had a pair of 6.5 (Harlick Finalist with comet blades) that I wore but that are too worn out for me (this kid is in B8/FS1, and I am doing axels and doubles). So I brought them in for her to try on...by the end of our 1/2 hour "group" lesson (she was the only one there on Saturday), she was doing quite well! Her mom was so appreciative and couldn't believe that I just gave her the skates. For me, I had gotten my use out of them and they were just sitting on my porch not doing anyone any good, so I would rather give them to someone who needs them. I am just so happy that she has skates that work for her and I have one less thing sitting on my porch

[jumpingbeansmom]

a) Canadian clubs don't offer rentals. So, not an issue. You have to supply your own skates, and, as of May 1/11, a CSA approved Hockey Helmet is now mandatory until quite high up in our LTS (Canskate) program.
b) The need to buy your own skates leads often to the "bargain skate" phenomenon: the $15 skates that don't work well, or the $35 pair that convert to roller blades. Neither of which options work well - the skate option or the roller blade option.
c) Our largest skate store - in Toronto - does do a figure skating buyback, and sells the second hand ones on. They do a great job fitting the second hand ones.
d) Hockey parents do cheap out on skates too. They also hand them down from kid to kid, regardless of whether they fit properly.


It's not just the "you need to buy your own skates" that is an issue: you also have to have them buy the right skates that fit properly. Somebody can go out and buy expensive skates that are the wrong size or type, and you're going to get no further than in a pair of battered 10th-hand ones, or your rentals ... and you may also wreck your feet with new skates that are the wrong ones, same as the worry about the wrecking of feet with the rentals. 

My Rant:  $150 Zuca Bag containing a $85 skates "Oh, Skates Are So Expensive, How Do You Afford Them - We Got Such a Deal!" My suggestion: Afford them by avoiding the Zuca bag and putting the money towards a decent pair of skates ... the cute Zuca bag + cute dress phenomenon seems to be quite common here, and often are accompanied by the cheap skates ... sigh ...

Oh yes, we had a family of offenders like this on our synchro team...they owed a fortune toward their synchro fees (as a matter of fact LEFT the team owing), complained they couldn't afford it but always had zuca bags and were the first at the competitions buying expensive crap (teddy bears with skates on etc)

[jumpingbeansmom]

We have that with out LTS kids too...and it always amazes me...I would much rather have a cheapo bag and good skates than something that is expensive and skates that I can't do anything with!

I assume it is parent ignorance...people always look at me nuts when I tell them how much my juv girl skates cost...but geesh, she wears them almost as much a day as her shoes.

[Skate@Delaware]

I watched as a dad ranted about his daughter's skates (she was in LTS)...the blade was loose. Of course, it was riveted to the boot, and the skating part of the blade was "crimped" to the metal plate on the boot...which was starting to rust, hence the looseness. He asked the pro-shop what he could do about it. Of course, nothing could be done. They recommended a new blade. He looked at my blades, which are screwed to the boots. I suggested that his blades be mounted to new boots, because they should be mounted to boots with leather soles, not plastic, because they might fail.

Dad: is that better?
me: it's stronger
Dad: how much would something like that cost?
me: you might want to ask the pro-shop, but boot/blade combos usually cost less, and they are safer
Dad: it sounds expensive
me: how much does she skate?
Dad: every day, sometimes for 3-4 hours
me: yeah...better safe than not

The whole conversation carried on like that for a few more minutes, then he went on about buying "used" boots/blades. Yada-Yada-Yada. He seemed totally resistant to spending any more than $50/75 for a new set of skates, although he did relate that she skates all year round... really? Whatever.

 

[Sierra]

Update: my student had new skates from the pro shop this past Saturday.  I'm still putting together a Top 10 List though, for future reference, so keep those ideas coming!

The skates really took away a barrier in her skating. 

That's GREAT!!! I remember very well the same feeling of having a barrier taken away.

Dad: is that better?
me: it's stronger
Dad: how much would something like that cost?
me: you might want to ask the pro-shop, but boot/blade combos usually cost less, and they are safer
Dad: it sounds expensive
me: how much does she skate?
Dad: every day, sometimes for 3-4 hours
me: yeah...better safe than not

The whole conversation carried on like that for a few more minutes, then he went on about buying "used" boots/blades. Yada-Yada-Yada. He seemed totally resistant to spending any more than $50/75 for a new set of skates, although he did relate that she skates all year round... really? Whatever.

At my rink, 3-4 hours every day would cost several hundred for the month if you used an unlimited card (you have to skate at least 10 hours/or more a week to make the unlimited card the same cost/less cost as the punch cards). And he can't buy her skates that would probably cost $150-200 for an advanced LTS pair? 

[sarahspins]

At my rink, 3-4 hours every day would cost several hundred for the month if you used an unlimited card (you have to skate at least 10 hours/or more a week to make the unlimited card the same cost/less cost as the punch cards). And he can't buy her skates that would probably cost $150-200 for an advanced LTS pair? 

Around here it's very common for LTS students to skate lots of public sessions... so it doesn't end up costing hundreds a month, for the skater who skates 4 times a week, assuming one of those days is their lesson day (public is free), that's only another $36 a month.  If they only skated 3 times a week, then it's $24... you can really get in a lot of hours this way, for next to nothing.

Your assumption is only true if they are skating freestyle sessions... most LTS skaters don't.

[FigureSpins]

If group lessons without renting skates are $12/class and rentals cost $3/use, that means each class in rentals costs $15. 

So, let's say it takes twice as long to get through Basic 4 in rentals as it does in your own skates.
20 lessons on rentals (20*$15) would cost $300 ... 10 lessons in your own skates (10*$12) would cost $120
The net savings is $180 - that seems too good to be true.

Maybe the learning curve is 1 to 3: you master skills 1/3 faster in well-fitted skates.
The 15 lessons on rentals $15 cost $225 ... 10 lessons in your own skates @ $12 would cost $120.
The net savings is $105 - the parents still come out ahead if they buy a pair of decent skates for under $100!

I wish I could figure out what an accurate ratio is instead of guessing.  Or, maybe a breakeven point ...

I think it's a no-brainer, especially if the rentals don't fit the skater well (too narrow/no half sizes).

[jumpingbeansmom]

That's GREAT!!! I remember very well the same feeling of having a barrier taken away.

At my rink, 3-4 hours every day would cost several hundred for the month if you used an unlimited card (you have to skate at least 10 hours/or more a week to make the unlimited card the same cost/less cost as the punch cards). And he can't buy her skates that would probably cost $150-200 for an advanced LTS pair? 

I know, I cannot wrap my head around that

[Skate@Delaware]

Most LTS kids at my rink use public sessions-it's $6 for 2 hours vs. $10-15 for 45-50 minutes.

But really, why complain about spending $100 on a better boot/blade combo if your kid is spending HOURS in them??? Especially if there is a chance of the blade detaching from the boot? Really, now.....the money you save in freestyles more than makes up for it if you dollar-cost average....just sayin'

Also, you learned to skate in crappy-fitting boots, then later you have to FIX crappy technique because you were compensating for crappy-fitting boots....

[Skittl1321]

I think owning your own skates is a function of where you live.  In Texas, I rarely saw anyone in LTS in their own skates, even in the higher Basic skills levels (Basic 6+), here in Iowa many kids show up to their first class in their own skates and almost all have them by Basic 5, even though rental skates are included in the price of LTS.  (I have seen one girl attempt freestyle classes in rental skates.  She took 3 sessions of freestyle 1 without passing, and then quit).  Skating is just more of a thing to do, so parents see it as a norm to buy skates.

Now granted, these aren't figure skates, but recreational figure skates- usually rivetted on blades, etc.

But even crappy rec skates have better toe picks than rental skates for learning bunny hops and waltz jumps, and merely using the same equipment each week will help.

[Skate@Delaware]

I think owning your own skates is a function of where you live.  In Texas, I rarely saw anyone in LTS in their own skates, even in the higher Basic skills levels (Basic 6+), here in Iowa many kids show up to their first class in their own skates and almost all have them by Basic 5, even though rental skates are included in the price of LTS.  (I have seen one girl attempt freestyle classes in rental skates.  She took 3 sessions of freestyle 1 without passing, and then quit).  Skating is just more of a thing to do, so parents see it as a norm to buy skates.

Now granted, these aren't figure skates, but recreational figure skates- usually rivetted on blades, etc.

But even crappy rec skates have better toe picks than rental skates for learning bunny hops and waltz jumps, and merely using the same equipment each week will help.

I agree, but the issues with this young lady are safety-her blade is in danger of detaching, and the amount of skating she is doing, she would be better served to get another pair of skates (she has her own but I'm thinking dad should get another pair pronto before that blade detaches).

Most of the time, LTS kids (and adults) can do ok with rentals, it's when they notice that they are fighting for an edge that it might be time to consider getting their own skates if it's the beginning of the season (not the end, when a rink might shut down for the summer) so they can maximize use. They can also pick up a used pair on the cheap that way, as competitive kids are sizing up.

[isakswings]

I watched as a dad ranted about his daughter's skates (she was in LTS)...the blade was loose. Of course, it was riveted to the boot, and the skating part of the blade was "crimped" to the metal plate on the boot...which was starting to rust, hence the looseness. He asked the pro-shop what he could do about it. Of course, nothing could be done. They recommended a new blade. He looked at my blades, which are screwed to the boots. I suggested that his blades be mounted to new boots, because they should be mounted to boots with leather soles, not plastic, because they might fail.

Dad: is that better?
me: it's stronger
Dad: how much would something like that cost?
me: you might want to ask the pro-shop, but boot/blade combos usually cost less, and they are safer
Dad: it sounds expensive
me: how much does she skate?
Dad: every day, sometimes for 3-4 hours
me: yeah...better safe than not

The whole conversation carried on like that for a few more minutes, then he went on about buying "used" boots/blades. Yada-Yada-Yada. He seemed totally resistant to spending any more than $50/75 for a new set of skates, although he did relate that she skates all year round... really? Whatever.

 

Oh jeez! If she is THAT serious about skating, he NEEDS to spend more then that on skates for the girl! Good grief.

[fsk8r]

The real question for these cheapskate parents who won't buy skates is what do their kids use for sport at school? I bet they but them the correct footwear. There really isn't that much difference from having a pair of soccer boots and a pair of skates. And at the rec skate level there isn't that much difference in the price.
That and a good parent is worried about the growth of their child's foot and spends a lot of time getting it measured and buying appropriate footwear, why are skates any different? They're shoes after all.

[Sk8tmum]

Having been in the position to observe the footwear that younger kids wear to school ... cheap sneakers, "fashion" pseudo-athletic shoes, and the ilk are often the daily wear. Many of the little girls, not so much the little boys, wear "fun" shoes that have minimal support, poor construction, but are "cute" and cheap.  Being bought too big to "grow into" is another pattern.  I've seen this since my oldest, now in her late teens, was in nursery school ... and it continues. Not an economic choice, either, as the parents can often afford better; they simply don't see the point, and the kids want the "fun" trendy footwear.

Soccer cleats can be picked up for $15 at our local sporting goods stores; baseball cleats similarly.  Shinguards ... $7.50 a pair.  Which is why soccer is growing in popularity, from anecdotal evidence - it's relatively inexpensive to kit the kids out, and the overall costs of participating, at the houseleague level, is quite low.

[hopskipjump]

I would suggest "time" as a reason to buy skates and by pass lines getting every dollars worth out of the session instead of waiting around.    When dd was doing LTS, they often didn't have her size or we had to wait in line for the rentals.  For $50 I could just throw her own skates on her and send her out.  You could also point out hygiene - many people wear rentals and even if they are sprayed they could harbor germs &).

And honestly, kids feel good in their own pretty white skates.  It gives them an incentive to get out there and skate.

I can see the father's hesitation though.  Buying skates sends a message to parents of "Now you are on a slippery slope!!"  And to be frank, it was hard to decide I was going to commit 370 on a pair of skates last year with blades and now that she learning her Axel and doubles, I know that bill will only grow.  I should have said no to the first $50. 

[kiwiskater]

well just to hijack the original question & go with the theme of rentals...come to my rink...they have crappy skates for figure skaters, they are all rusty/broken down, I even know of a skater who had her blade fall off during a lesson. I was fortunate enough to have the cash to cough up at the beginning, as someone with small feet it was incredibly hard to find some that worked for me...

Since the recent upgrade they have gone crazy & purchased hockey skates for the majority of their rental stock (which are never maintained) we now have people showing up to lessons in bright blue buckle up hockey skates.

I also pay the same flat fee for LTS as everyone else that are using the rentals - ergo those of us with our own skates subsidise the crappy service and fancy hockey skates to no benefit for us or the people we skate with....