The "No Undies" Rule

[FigureSpins]

The sewing pattern topic made me wonder about this ... why is there a "no undies" rule for skating dresses? 
Why does it bother people to see a pair of undies peeking out on a five-year old? (Doesn't phase me for some reason.)

I think that, at least younger girls, shouldn't have to go commando under their tights and dresses, lol.  If the attached dress bottom was cut a little more generously, you wouldn't be able to see the panties.  Maybe smaller sizes should have bigger bottoms! 

[Kim to the Max]

It doesn't bother me as much for the itty-bitties as it does for the older kids (who wants to see a 13 year old with flowery undies sticking out?)...but, also in this day and age of heavy tights and mondors, etc. which are much warmer than regular tights, you can cover them up even for the little kids for some more modesty...for the little kids, it doesn't matter...it's actually cute and sweet that they want to wear a dress that badly

[Skittl1321]

It doesn't bother me for a 5-year old, but on older kids it looks ugly.  I don't want to see underwear, and when they are all bunchy under tights slipping out from the dress, it is distracting. 

Tights are the underwear, if they have a proper cotton gusset.  There is no reason to wear 2 pairs of undies!  Or 3 pairs, because some people wear double tights for warmth. 

I've actually had ballet teachers tell kids that it is unhealthy/unsanitary to wear regular underwear under tights because of the way they gather and hold sweat in that area- that over years of teaching they see the kids who wear underwear get yicky "girl infections" much more frequently.  Those who just wear their tights don't have the same problems. 

If you start them out young, they won't think it's weird at all, they'll just be used to it.  That's the reason to have 5-year olds the same as older kids.  The problem is when you tell an 8-year old she can't wear underwear.  Then she thinks your crazy. 

[jumpingbeansmom]

I guess I don't see why they need them?? Buy some tights with cotton crotches...they are meant to be worn alone.   What is the obsession with HAVING to wear two undergarments-- tights ARE undergarments.

[jumpingbeansmom]

It doesn't bother me for a 5-year old, but on older kids it looks ugly.  I don't want to see underwear, and when they are all bunchy under tights slipping out from the dress, it is distracting. 

Tights are the underwear, if they have a proper cotton gusset.  There is no reason to wear 2 pairs of undies!  Or 3 pairs, because some people wear double tights for warmth. 

I've actually had ballet teachers tell kids that it is unhealthy/unsanitary to wear regular underwear under tights because of the way they gather and hold sweat in that area- that over years of teaching they see the kids who wear underwear get yicky "girl infections" much more frequently.  Those who just wear their tights don't have the same problems. 

If you start them out young, they won't think it's weird at all, they'll just be used to it.  That's the reason to have 5-year olds the same as older kids.  The problem is when you tell an 8-year old she can't wear underwear.  Then she thinks your crazy. 

 am here...when my dd wears a skating dress for competition, she often has two pair of tights on anyway (one regular and one over the boot or one footless to cover up her laces)-- for what reason would she need a 3rd undergarment?

[FigureSpins]

I've actually had ballet teachers tell kids that it is unhealthy/unsanitary to wear regular underwear under tights because of the way they gather and hold sweat in that area- that over years of teaching they see the kids who wear underwear get yicky "girl infections" much more frequently.  Those who just wear their tights don't have the same problems. 

I've heard others say that cotton crotch means no undies needed.  I think it is to provide ventilation to prevent what you've described, not replace panties.  The kids and I wear cotton undies and have no such problems, but I guess skaters wearing nylon panties would be prone to what you've described.  Then again, the nylon undies could be the real cause, and it's been attributed to all panties without any real scientific analysis, lol.  Who knows?

I hate wearing pantyhose or tights without underwear.  I always feel naked and uncomfortable.  The chafing that results from the legs stretching and pulling the crotch is literally a PITA (or thereabouts.) 

The other reason to wear panties under tights/pantyhose is because of unexpected menses - I had three skaters get their periods unexpectedly at competitions and tests this year.  Since the Synchro skaters' dresses are held for them, that means an embarrassing conversation for the kids with the costume manager.

To each his own, but the cotton crotch provides minimal modesty coverage, which is wrong in a sport where we require them to haul their foot up over their heads.  I like short-shorts...and I don't think we should dictate underwear requirements for skaters of any age!

A coworker was once given a comment by a much older man at our office.  He remarked that she was wearing pants to work.  It was a designer business suit from Saks, very appropriate for work!  Under her breath, she muttered to me "If he wasn't looking at my ***, he wouldn't have noticed." lol

If you start them out young, they won't think it's weird at all, they'll just be used to it.  That's the reason to have 5-year olds the same as older kids.  The problem is when you tell an 8-year old she can't wear underwear.  Then she thinks your crazy. 

That drives home the point that it's inappropriate to ask them to go without underwear at any age.  Just because we brainwash them by "starting early" doesn't make it right.  An eight year isn't even as self-conscious as a 13-year old, so they don't think you're crazy, they think you're creepy.

[Skittl1321]

I don't think we should dictate underwear requirements for skaters of any age!

It's a rule of thumb, not an actual rule.  Skaters can wear underwear if they want, there is just no reason for it!  IIRC, there is a Canadian elite skater who did when she was competing- as her underwear is known to show from her tights.  I'm going to see if I can find a picture- but am at work, so don't want to search anything that might get "dirty" results!

 The cotton crotch in tights is for hygiene, not modesty- they leotard panel of the dress provides the modesty covering!  That's why some skaters favor two pairs of tights- a bit more opaque, without seeing panties under it.  I know some skater wear thongs as their underwear, but I'm not really sure that actually provides any more coverage of the "important bits" than the leotard panel- so I think it's just a crutch.

(ETA: Found it: http://www.iceskatingintnl.com/images/sk8can/sk8can%202006%20leung%20fs.jpg This is the reason for no underwear.  Do you really want skaters on an international stage to represent your country with this look? I've seen plenty of skaters pull their legs over their head and never seen any "unmentionable parts" so clearly tights and the leotard gusset alone work just fine.)

[FigureSpins]

Don't search for it - it sets off the snoopy browser ads.  (Ask me how I know, lol)

That's a crappy picture, taken during a split-second of the program.  It's an ugly position with or without the underwear showing and yes, if she's a talented skater, I do want her representing me.

In this day and age, where women wear sportsbras as tops and no one blinks an eye, I would not discriminate against someone because their undies were showing.  Yes, I'd send them anywhere if their skating achievements merited it.

However, if she were wearing shorts, you wouldn't have seen her panties.

[Kim to the Max]

I think it's a personal preference (none, thong, high leg bikini, etc.), but it would be less noticable if folks wore nude colored undies instead of bright colors...it's like when I choose a bra to go with a dress - I always choose a nude color because if something needs to show or could show, it will blend in  better (and if I am wearing nude mesh, it is really hard to tell)...

[Skittl1321]

Don't search for it - it sets off the snoopy browser ads.  (Ask me how I know, lol)

However, if she were wearing shorts, you wouldn't have seen her panties.

I found it just using her name on google images- didn't use the word underwear!  As for split second, if you watch the video of the program, you can see it most of the program. I don't remember which competition it was, and I don't care to go searching youtube right now.  That position is ugly, because I think she's mid crossover.  I'm not judging her on that.  A skater at the Olympic level has no business having their underwear hanging out like that- they spend way too much effort in preperation of their costumes.  

Ladies have the option of wearing leggings/unitards to compete in.  If it bothers them so much to be in skimpy skirts pulling their legs up- then wear pants!

Just because we brainwash them by "starting early" doesn't make it right.  

Well don't you "brainwash" them when they are toddlers into thinking it's a requirement that they must wear underwear at all times?  So how do you explain no underwear with a bathing suit?  Or do you wear underwear with your swimsuit too? (I know some men do actually wear underwear in bathing suits, even those that have the "support" sewn in.  Others don't.) I feel less secure in a swimsuit than I do a skating dress and tights.  I find it much more revealing, because there is nothing covering any of my legs.  I went to a diving championship, and thought I would die if I had to do what those girls (and men) do- bend over with their backside facing the crowd, spread their legs to the side in a split and pull up into a handstand.  It would be quite the view if the swimsuit shifted at all, way more than a skater in tights.  And their suits are SO high cut compared to what skaters wear.  So what do you think- do these women wear underwear/bloomers? http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/107138990/AFP  Gymnasts usually wear bloomers because they don't wear tights.  I'm honestly interested to know about the divers.


I was taught as a young dancer that tights WERE underwear.  So I'm not NOT wearing underwear, I'm just wearing a different kind.   If you start your period unexpectedly, you still have the issue with costumes when wearing underwear- unless you started it expectedly and we wearing some sort of sanitary product, which you can do when wearing just tights.  And I didn't use tampons as a child, so I wore pads in tights, when just wearing a leotard (we didn't even get skirts like skaters do).   My dance team had a fine if you wore underwear, even at practices.  It would have been a very expensive habit.

I don't wear underwear when wearing pantyhose either.  They are called PANTY! hose for a reason.

[Purple Sparkly]

I hate wearing pantyhose or tights without underwear.  I always feel naked and uncomfortable. 

This is how I feel.  I think I tried it one time and I didn't like it at all.  I always wear underwear for practice, competition, and testing.  I don't care if anyone sees it for practice, plus I wear pants most of the time.  Should we not wear underwear for practice if we are wearing tights, either?

For testing and competition, I know which pairs of underwear are most comfortable and least likely to be seen, so I make sure those are clean and packed for the event.  I agree seeing underwear is unsightly, but proper undergarment selection could prevent it.  Maybe instead of saying "no underwear!" we guide skaters and parents to choose the most appropriate items.

[FigureSpins]

Maybe instead of saying "no underwear!" we guide skaters and parents to choose the most appropriate items.

I think so, too.  Skin-tone underwear should be fine and really, why are we looking at their butts?  Still photos are one thing and really, they're irrelevant for skating. 

There's no reason that a pretty spiral held above hip height should be downgraded because someone noticed a panty showing. 

[Skittl1321]

I don't think it has much to do with the judges.  It's more of an audience factor.

In reality, we should all be able to go out and skate our programs in black pants and a black shirt, with no costume at all.  But for some reason this is a costumed sport, and so presentation matters.  No one cares about underwear they can't see- the problem is you can often see it.  

And even when you can see it, there is no rule against it.

[Sierra]

I wear undies. Not for any particular reason, just because I don't give thought to it. I wear white ones (don't have nude), and they've never shown. It might just be my individual dress, but I've noticed that as the dress creeps up my butt during the performance, so do my undies. There is this lovely picture from my last competition where I'm doing my last jump. The picture is taken from behind and shows about three quarters of my butt, due to the skirt flipping up and the dress panty having rode up. No undies showing though. The picture, however, should be thrown into the fiery black hole of unflattering pictures.

If a skater needs to change in a locker room in front of others, no undies can present a problem. One of my competitions, the locker room didn't have an individual bathroom stall, only a wall to block view from the door, and the bathrooms themselves were way far away from the ice, and crowded.

Undies showing on higher level skaters just really ruins the dignified, coolly confident image. Especially when they're pink with little flowers... probably serves to feed the 'figure skating is an immodest sport' fire too.

[jumpingbeansmom]

I think it's a personal preference (none, thong, high leg bikini, etc.), but it would be less noticable if folks wore nude colored undies instead of bright colors...it's like when I choose a bra to go with a dress - I always choose a nude color because if something needs to show or could show, it will blend in  better (and if I am wearing nude mesh, it is really hard to tell)...

Well yeah...that is the thing, it seems like so many times these girls have flowers, or bright colors or really bunched up underwear showing...if you MUST wear additional undergarments (and I still don't get it) besides two pair of tights, then at least fine something suitable that lays flat and isn't brightly colored.

[jumpingbeansmom]

I don't think it has much to do with the judges.  It's more of an audience factor.

In reality, we should all be able to go out and skate our programs in black pants and a black shirt, with no costume at all.  But for some reason this is a costumed sport, and so presentation doesn't matter.  No one cares about underwear they can't see- the problem is you can often see it. 

And even when you can see it, there is no rule against it.

Well yeah, if we couldn't see it nobody would be having this discussion.   My dd wears a unitard, and we did have to search to find a pair of panties that didn't show alot of lines and at only aged 10 she wasn't up for the thong.....

[Isk8NYC]

Well yeah, if we couldn't see it nobody would be having this discussion.   My dd wears a unitard, and we did have to search to find a pair of panties that didn't show alot of lines and at only aged 10 she wasn't up for the thong.....

But that's my point: why do some people even care if the skater's panty lines or panties are showing?  Crazy people point it out and even post photos on websites to try and embarrass the skaters.  While it might not be overt, I know some judges will lower the costume score because it distracted them.

BTW, you can dye white panties beige by using coffee and/or tea.

[jumpingbeansmom]

But that's my point: why do some people even care if the skater's panty lines or panties are showing?  Crazy people point it out and even post photos on websites to try and embarrass the skaters.  While it might not be overt, I know some judges will lower the costume score because it distracted them.

BTW, you can dye white panties beige by using coffee and/or tea.

While I don't agree with going to such extremes as you describe, I care because it looks like crap-- you have this beautiful outfit and then you see flowered panties hanging out?  YUCK.  Why do we care if the dress 'goes' with the music, how the hair is done or anything-- for the entire look, that is why.

[retired]

Oh Mira!   Poor girl.  She's the most famous one and probably got singled out because she ruffled some feathers along the way in her career.   

My point to my kids is a reference to that situation and photo, without naming the skater and saying "do you want to be remembered for showing your underwear and have your picture all over the internet?"   The same thing goes for sloppy hair, or dirty skates or holey tights or even for a dress that is inappropriate - no the tutu hotpants you go clubbing in is not suitable for skating.     I don't care if a panty line shows, but it better not be flowered panties.    Get some nice beige ones and keep them with the good tights for competition.

[Isk8NYC]

While I don't agree with going to such extremes as you describe, I care because it looks like crap-- you have this beautiful outfit and then you see flowered panties hanging out?  YUCK.  Why do we care if the dress 'goes' with the music, how the hair is done or anything-- for the entire look, that is why.

So 99% of the "look" is perfect, but that ruins it all for you?  C'mon - cut the kid some slack and just blur your eyes from the distraction. 

[AgnesNitt]

If you're an adult you can 'go commando' with underwear that has no lines. I wear this stuff with certain slacks.
http://www.herroom.com/Commando-HP-High-Rise-Panty.shtml

[fsk8r]

Why is everyone focussing on the undies showing, when I would be worrying about the dress not providing adequate coverage. If you wear big undies then you need larger dress coverage. Same applies to the top end for the teenagers. They have assets which shouldn't bounce out.
As an adult I buy dresses which provide adequate coverage at the top and at the bottom.

[sarahspins]

Gymnasts are docked points for underwear/bras showing... I don't personally think it's unreasonable to have it in the rules that it's not allowed, because if you remove that rule on the basis of "it's not a big deal if a little bit of panty shows", girls will START showing off undies under costumes as part of their "look" - I know that seems silly, but think of all the teen (and adult) girls out there wearing low-cut jeans and thongs... do we really want that in skating?  That's probably what would ultimately happen if the "rule" was removed.

I have two kids in gymnastics, and so we spend a LOT of time at the gym... and honestly it's not hard to notice that many girls go commando under their leo's and I honestly think that most of them would be better off wearing a pair of high-cut undies or dance briefs underneath, even if that meant a panty line was showing (at the waist).. I wish it wasn't so, but it is the truth.  It's actually bad enough that my husband prefers not to go with me, since he says it makes him feel like a creep, even if he's just trying to watch our son's practice.

My daughter used to be in a preschool dance class, and ALLLL of the little girls had panties showing under their leos.. part of the problem there is just the way that leos fit kids that small... they dont' fit snugly enough, and so there's not much to keep the undies in place and stop them from riding down since the tights aren't very snug on tiny kids either.  It doesn't seem to be as much of an issue with the bigger girls... but dancewear is usually cut more modestly than gymnastics leos and skating dresses are... and there is underwear made and marketed to dancers (which I don't really see in skating or gymnastics) and most of the girls wear tights too.

Personally I am a huge fan of seamless undies under tights/dresses... like the ones Agnes linked (I have some made by hanes - they're not as nice, but they get the job done). The only time I go commando is in bike shorts, because the moisture transport of the chamois doesn't work properly with undies on, and I'd rather not have a sweaty behind on a 60 mile ride.. but they truly are made to be worn without anything under

[icesk8r725]

I used to wear beige no-panty line underwear with skating dresses because I would always be afraid of getting my period.  I would make sure that they were high cut enough to not show while doing spirals or any other move... I would do a test run and make sure that they were pulled up enough.  Also, I tend to buy skating dresses that have a good coverage bottom, so it never was an issue.  I find that for me at least, the del arbour panty on dresses comfortable covers my whole bottom and I feel more comfortable with that, even without wearing panties.

[aussieskater]

I'm sorry, tights are not underwear in the sense of "covering" your intimate areas.  You can see right through them and the cotton gusset doesn't cover near enough area, especially once you're older (struggling to phrase that appropriately in a family forum).

I infinitely prefer to see undies (even ugly ones like Mira was wearing!!) and know that they are there, especially if there is a narrow crotch and high-cut brief in the dress.  I don't want to watch with my hands half over my eyes feeling like there's a risk I'm about to cop an eyeful, given some of the ugly gyno poses the skaters seem to do these days.  High-cut skintone undies are at very little risk of being seen at all, especially if the skater is wearing double tights.  However, if they're going to do a fire hydrant or a full side split, please do the judges and audience a favour, and wear a unitard or skate pants.