You are viewing as a Guest.

Welcome to skatingforums - over 10 years of figure skating discussions for skaters, coaches, judges and parents!

Please register to be able to access all features of this message board.

Author Topic: Older Skaters & Limitations - fsf, 5837 Views, 277 Posts  (Read 4189 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline JimStanmore

  • Administrator
  • Intergalactic Ice Dancer
  • *****
  • Joined: Aug 2010
  • Location: Southern, NJ
  • Posts: 422
  • Total GOE: 383
  • Gender: Male
Older Skaters & Limitations - fsf, 5837 Views, 277 Posts
« on: August 31, 2010, 11:25:19 PM »

SkatingOnClouds
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 709

Post Title: Older Skaters and limitations.
Posted: 10-01-2006, 04:22 AM

 quoting from Rusty Blades aka Dianne:

"My coach and I had a little heart-to-heart earlier this week because I was struggling with forward Mohawks and getting into a funk about how long it is taking to re-learn the basics. She said, "You will never be the skater you were 36 years ago, you know that?" I hung my head and said, "Yes, but I don't have to accept it without a struggle."

This has been bugging me all weekend.

I realised that what bugged me is that I hate people placing limitations on me in whatever my endeavours. I know for sure that there are some things I do better now than I did 20+ years ago. Mohawks for one thing, and even though my loop is really still a work in progress, it is most certainly better than the consistent but truly awful little hop I did all those years ago. I reckon even my sit spin could be better than back then.

Adult learners or refreshers at any undertaking will have physical limitations (which are extremely frustrating) and fears to overcome, yet we can also be far better at analysing a skill and applying different strategies to overcoming limitations.

So while Dianne's coach may be right in terms of sheer physical achievement, I do not believe that it necessarily means we cannot be in some ways better than when we were younger.

I too struggle with having to re-learn basics, and my ever-patient coach is continually trying to get me to focus on edges and entries, so I share Dianne's frustrations and wonder whether I will ever get back to where I was.

I think if my coach started putting those sort of limiting statements on me I would question that coach's commitment to taking me as far as I am able to go. I think I and my body will know when to say "that's as far as I go".

What do other older skaters think? 

Award
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 329


Posted: 10-01-2006, 05:25 AM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by SkatingOnClouds 
quoting from Rusty Blades aka Dianne:

"My coach and I had a little heart-to-heart earlier this week because I was struggling with forward Mohawks and getting into a funk about how long it is taking to re-learn the basics. She said, "You will never be the skater you were 36 years ago, you know that?" I hung my head and said, "Yes, but I don't have to accept it without a struggle."

This has been bugging me all weekend.

I realised that what bugged me is that I hate people placing limitations on me in whatever my endeavours.
 
 
I think the coach shouldn't say things like that, because each person is different.....different physical/mental strength and abilities.

If you're enthusiastic and have a huge desire to learn things, then by all means....just have fun, take your time...as much time as you want really, and then just see how many things you can do. Because there's no way that you're going to learn nothing. That's for sure. So, I wouldn't even worry about what that coach said. It's not always true about what they said - assuming they meant that you won't be able to do certain things. On the other hand, your coach might mean that your muscles/tendons have not been worked for a long time, then maybe they just meant that only....that is, you'll probably have to take time to work-out and get back some flexibility. Maybe that's all the coach meant. 

IceAge
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11


Posted: 10-01-2006, 05:47 AM

 It all depends on your own abilities and time you are spending on the ice.Listen to your body .I know what I say because I have this odd situation I'm not a child anymore but,as I've started in my teens, I'm quite fearless (even when I fall sometimes ).And I know what you feel - I hate when people say I probably won't have any triples , but I know it is possible( my coach thinks so too), as I already land my doubles . 

DallasSkater
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 282


Posted: 10-01-2006, 09:36 AM

 I don't mind when my coach or others remind me that my expectations need a reality check at times. I started at age 44 with my only childhood experience being a handful of group intro to ice skating lessons and mostly frozen over cranberry bogs!

I think part of my attraction to skating at this later chapter of life deals with the attraction of exploring the boundaries of my abilities. I do get frustrated at times but also have such joy when I am able to get something and prove that it was not impossible...even for me.

The processing with my coach and with others has mostly been positive. I have felt validated in my fears that sometimes surface in a jump expectation or a recognition of my limited grace or age appropriate flexibility. Mostly people have been quite complimentary in their framing of my age.

I tend to agree that there is much to a self fulfilling prophecy and self talk is important. Adult ability to truly evaluate the input from others also helps. It can be used as data to create self doubt or can be used as data to validate owning your own body and expectation! giggle.

Limiting yourself to a more negative version of what is being said is the true enemy IMHO.

Good luck to you! 

coskater64
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 893


Posted: 10-01-2006, 09:55 AM

 Well, age does have it's limitations but then again, you can do anything so long as you have unmitigated tenacity. I have fought to become the skater I am and I get tired of people saying that my skating as a child given me an edge, as an adult. I only skated for 4 years (14-18) as a child yes I had an axel and some decent cheated doubles (toe). I passed my Intermediate FS as an adult along with my Intermediate and Novice moves in my early 40's.

I believe that I have the skills, and I will continue to believe that, I am starting over again after hip surgery this summer and while it is going to take me longer than I thought I will get back to where I was and then continue onward, when I have my second hip surgery I will do the same. It justs take time and patience, I have neither...but I am working on it.


That being said, almost everyday I see a lovely 82 year-old woman skate at my rink, she solid thru lutz and while she says age has it's disadvantages, she still enjoys the sport. She competes every year at AN's and does well...I only hope to make it past 50. 

rf3ray
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 219


Posted: 10-01-2006, 10:09 AM

 I Believe on how bad you want it.. At My rink there are these 2 ice dancers that are in there 60's still doing there dances when they where competing when they where at 40. They have told me of stories of when they where having lessons with their coaches and stuff.

End of the day its how bad you want it. And how bad you want to work for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkatingOnClouds 
quoting from Rusty Blades aka Dianne:

"My coach and I had a little heart-to-heart earlier this week because I was struggling with forward Mohawks and getting into a funk about how long it is taking to re-learn the basics. She said, "You will never be the skater you were 36 years ago, you know that?" I hung my head and said, "Yes, but I don't have to accept it without a struggle."

This has been bugging me all weekend.

I realised that what bugged me is that I hate people placing limitations on me in whatever my endeavours. I know for sure that there are some things I do better now than I did 20+ years ago. Mohawks for one thing, and even though my loop is really still a work in progress, it is most certainly better than the consistent but truly awful little hop I did all those years ago. I reckon even my sit spin could be better than back then.

Adult learners or refreshers at any undertaking will have physical limitations (which are extremely frustrating) and fears to overcome, yet we can also be far better at analysing a skill and applying different strategies to overcoming limitations.

So while Dianne's coach may be right in terms of sheer physical achievement, I do not believe that it necessarily means we cannot be in some ways better than when we were younger.

I too struggle with having to re-learn basics, and my ever-patient coach is continually trying to get me to focus on edges and entries, so I share Dianne's frustrations and wonder whether I will ever get back to where I was.

I think if my coach started putting those sort of limiting statements on me I would question that coach's commitment to taking me as far as I am able to go. I think I and my body will know when to say "that's as far as I go".

What do other older skaters think?
 
 
 

d b n y
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 8168


Posted: 10-01-2006, 10:16 AM

 I don't think the coach was putting limitations on her student. As I approach 60, it has become painfully aware that when Dianne's coach said that, she was very simply stating the truth. Did any of you see Torvill and Dean on the UK skating with the stars show? They were still marvellous, but were absolutely not the skaters they had been. This is the nature of life. As we get older, we lose some flexibility, we heal more slowly, we injure more easily, our reflexes slow down, and we have greater perspective. If you are not yet 50, you may not have the perspective and the experience to understand what it all means in terms of athletic endeavor.

When I started figure skating about 6 years ago, of course I hoped to regain the agility, speed, and proficiency that I had on roller skates as a kid. Maybe someone else could have done that, but not me in my body. That doesn't mean that I don't keep trying, but it does mean that I am not going to pine away for something that just can't be. I frequently have dreams that I am flying across the ice the same way I used to fly across the floor at the roller rink, and those dreams are wonderful. Maybe what brought me home to reality was my broken wrist in 2001. It was the third time I had broken my right arm, but was nothing like the first two, which were at 5 and 15 years. My injuries then, except for time spent in a cast, were basically inconsequential. Cast came off, arm was like new. Not so the last time, I was shocked to discover. When you are 5 or 15, a broken arm is not such a big deal, but when you are in your 50's you have a job you must do, cars to drive, other people to take care of, and maybe years until you are back to normal, if ever. Believe me, that puts a crimp in your fearlessness on the ice.

My former coach, who didn't have a clue about any of that, used to laugh if I said anything about such limitations. Well, excuse me, but please don't jolly me along. Recognize the fact of age and it's limitations, and work with that, because that's what we've got. I think I would have appreciated Dianne's coach's comment.

coskater64, you have no idea what a very big difference there can be between learning something in your 40's and learning something in your 50's or 60's. Unmitigated tenacity, like talent, can only go so far. 

techskater
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1451


Posted: 10-01-2006, 11:21 AM

 I know I am a "younger" adult (only in my 30's who returned in her late 20's), but I will say that I am definitely a BETTER skater now than when I was 15. I work harder, I understand what I am trying to do, I am more focused, I don't fling and pray anymore, and I actually have some consistent doubles that I never had. I've also passed my Intermediate moves as an adult and I am considering going back to pass that dang 2nd figure that tripped me up as a kid since I understand what was wrong with it then.

I will admit though, that I have some hesitation on some elements that I didn't have when I was younger (darn spirals!), and I don't go flying headlong into new elements at top speed because I fear injury doing it that way. I think this is what Dianne's coach was getting at - that hesitation you get from the rational part of your brain!! 

emma
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 64


Posted: 10-01-2006, 02:50 PM

 Wow I can not believe your coach said that! How about another coach. I do not believe age is a limitation. I skated as a child probably at a Juv. level when I stopped. I started skating two years ago when we moved to an area that had a rink. Last year i decided to start testing again.As a kid i did figures not moves. In one year i took and passed on my first try all the adult moves and free style except for gold free which i will take for the first time in Nov. Also I moved over to the standard track and passed intermediate moves and will hopefully test novice moves in a few months. I have all my singles and combinations back as well as working on doubles which as far as i can see are only limited by my fear of hurting myself when i slam to the ice. My coach has never doubted my ability to continue on as far as i want to go. Oh, by the way I turned 52 today so i say stick a fork in your age, your only limitations are the ones you put on yourself and i bet you can go as far as you want! Go for it. Good luck. 

Skate@Delaware
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3730


Posted: 10-01-2006, 03:05 PM

 My coach has never stressed any limitations on me due to my age (44); only brought me down from unrealistic expectations as far as testing goes vs. my current abilities. She constantly pushes me to exceed what I think I can do and push beyond my "comfort" level (my previous coach didn't do that and I never really progressed).

Yes, there are some times when age steps in. But all that means is it will take a bit longer to attain a certain skill. If you are willing to try, work hard at it, then don't accept any limitations set on you by other people. They aren't you and don't wear your skin. Go for it! 

d b n y
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 8168


Posted: 10-01-2006, 03:44 PM

 emma, I think how much you learned as a kid can make a big difference later in life, and also how long you trained. Don't forget that some are talented and others just have to plug along until we finally get it. Congrats on getting so much back so fast. 

emma
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 64


Posted: 10-01-2006, 05:35 PM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by d b n y 
emma, I think how much you learned as a kid can make a big difference later in life, and also how long you trained. Don't forget that some are talented and others just have to plug along until we finally get it. Congrats on getting so much back so fast.
 
 
I think that is true although i was at a juv. level when I left skating at the age of 12 and back in the 60's juv level was much below what it is today. We were not doing double jumps at all and many of us did not even have an axel. So my skating back then was well below that of today. One advantage we have as adults that many of us did not have as kids is the maturity and the drive to excel. I work MUCH harder today then I did as a kid when I am on the ice I do nothing but work on moves, run my program and work on jumps . I am certain as a kid I spent half my time playing around with friends. Also I get concepts of moves and the need to be very percise in doing them and I am not sure I got the need to do that in figures. Plus I think I am much more driven now then as a kid. Because of all that I have been able to get much better than I was as a kid. It does not come easy to me I just work really hard at it! I was never one of those "talented" skaters and am not now. 

lovepairs
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 718


Posted: 10-01-2006, 05:57 PM

 SkatingonClouds,

Take a moment and read the "Going to the Olympics" thread. 

Skate@Delaware
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3730


Posted: 10-01-2006, 06:56 PM

 I do think we tend to drive ourselves harder than most of the kids. Whether that is good or bad depends on the individual. Sometimes it is counterproductive, sometimes not. We work hard for our achievements (some of which are hard-won). We nit-pick and are very picky about how "good" we execute our moves. What is good for a little kid or teen is not good enough (i.e. crap) to us.

Do we expect to go to the Olympics? Most of us can honestly say no (unless as a spectator). Does that make us try any less harder? No way!!! Are we any less determined to perfect the moves? No way!!! For us, the things that hinder our progress is: lack of ice time, financial obligations that interfere with our skating money, our family and jobs that eat into our skating time, our health. I could go on but we all know what I'm talking about. It's that "personal best" type of challenge we accepted when we picked this sport. 

Mercedeslove
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 500


Posted: 10-01-2006, 07:14 PM

 I'm still having issues with my right forward mohawk and I'll be 28 in 18 days.

I have no problems with the left, but my right leg omg. I can't do anything on it. Spin, jump, mohawks, 3 turns...it's like it's dead

and it really gets me down a lot. 


Offline JimStanmore

  • Administrator
  • Intergalactic Ice Dancer
  • *****
  • Joined: Aug 2010
  • Location: Southern, NJ
  • Posts: 422
  • Total GOE: 383
  • Gender: Male
Re: Older Skaters & Limitations - fsf, 5837 Views, 277 Posts
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2010, 11:25:42 PM »
skaternum
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2077


Posted: 10-01-2006, 07:20 PM

 I don't see what the big deal is. There are some biological issues that it's pointless to fight. As we age, all things being equal, we lose muscle mass. Many adults lose flexibility too. And let's don't even talk about what menopause does to you! When you toss in environmental factors, such as sedentary jobs and other demands for our time, most adults will never be the <fill in the blank athlete> they were 30 years ago. There's no shame in admitting that.

Which isn't to say that we can't try to compensate for this. We old ones can do everything in our power to stay strong and flexible, like lifting weights and cross training. We can approach our skating "smarter," as some like to say and focus better. Hooray for us!

I don't want a coach who treats me like a grown up brain in a kid's body. I want a coach who challenges me, but who understands that my body has changed. I want a coach who has realistic expectations for me and who will push me as far as we think I can go. I think I'm a good adult skater. Heck, I think I'm a good skater, but I'm 41 years old, fercryingoutloud. I'm not so delusional as to think I have the body or physical capability of an 18 year old. I'm not the least bit disturbed by this.

But I see absolutely nothing wrong with acknowledging that, for most of us, our bodies ain't what they used to be. 

Skate@Delaware
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3730


Posted: 10-01-2006, 07:31 PM

 Well said, skaternum! It helps to have a really good relationship and level of understanding with your coach. I am on my second coach and she is a gem! She knows about my past auto accidents and the limitations/problems I have because of them. That doesn't give me a "free ride" ticket to goof off and be a slacker, nor would I want to be. She works me hard, but always with the understanding that I will let her know if we need to back down a bit.

Yeah, i hit the weights and do cardio, and stretch almost every night. I have to. I try to watch what I eat also. I can't eat like a 10-year-old (and don't think I'd want to).

It's a struggle sometimes to get on the ice and do stuff, but I listen to my body and know when I'm getting tired, it's time to get off. In that respect, I feel smarter than the kids. 

Award
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 329


Posted: 10-01-2006, 08:09 PM

 I really reckon that when I get to 40+, I'll be equally as powerful as an 18 year old kid. 

d b n y
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 8168


Posted: 10-01-2006, 08:12 PM

 I'll second that "well said, Skaternum!"

emma, I worked much harder as a kid than I do as an adult, sorry to say. I started roller when I was 12 and skated till I was 18. I was totally obsessed with it to the point that I didn't have much social life. It was all skating and school. I vividly remember my first coach, who took me through silver, telling me what a good worker I was. I didn't realize till many years later that the subtext was that I had little talent. I'm probably just a tad above average in coordination and balance, but the balance is getting worse with age. I've never been very flexible and have great turn-in and no turn-out. OTOH, I was the kind of kid, unusual I think, who needed everything explained in great technical detail, and I also became a dance judge, so today I grasp what's going on right away. I'm never confused about edges, feet, arms, shoulders, direction, rotation, axes, etc. I know the terminology backwards and forwards. Ironically, now I learn much better by imitation, and watching elite skating always improves my feel for the ice. I often wish I had started ice when I gave up roller, or even in my 40's, when I still felt immortal 

Rusty Blades
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1587


Posted: 10-01-2006, 08:19 PM

 In all fairness to my coach, we had been talking about some of the high-level competitors and their triple jumps and I had been lamenting how SLOW my progress has been. Her comment was an "expectations check" and perfectly in order.

At 57, I do not expect to do any "big jumps". I am a whole lot older, heavier, and have a different "centre of balance" than I did as a skinny 18 year old That's life. There is, however, nothing to stop me from doing what I do do well and that was exactly the jist of the conversation and lesson. 

doubletoe
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4325


Posted: 10-01-2006, 10:44 PM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by techskater 
I know I am a "younger" adult (only in my 30's who returned in her late 20's), but I will say that I am definitely a BETTER skater now than when I was 15. I work harder, I understand what I am trying to do, I am more focused, I don't fling and pray anymore, and I actually have some consistent doubles that I never had. I've also passed my Intermediate moves as an adult and I am considering going back to pass that dang 2nd figure that tripped me up as a kid since I understand what was wrong with it then.

I will admit though, that I have some hesitation on some elements that I didn't have when I was younger (darn spirals!), and I don't go flying headlong into new elements at top speed because I fear injury doing it that way. I think this is what Dianne's coach was getting at - that hesitation you get from the rational part of your brain!!
 
 
I couldn't have said it better. Also, you may not be the SAME skater you were as a child, but you could be a BETTER skater in some ways. We adults are more patient and more analytical, so we are less likely to waste our jump attempts flinging ourselves into the air hoping to land a double through sheer force. 

Chico
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 642


Posted: 10-01-2006, 11:23 PM

 Well...maybe most adults don't try to land doubles with force but damn I have been a fool and tried. I am getting smarter and trying to do the technique thing the way I should now. =-) I'm learning that guts will only get you so far and I have a coach that teaches the one and understands the pros of the other in me. I think I have a child skater spirit in my adult body. Yep, I'm another one who hates being limited because I'm an adult. I'm an individual and not just an adult. See me for who I am as a person. Sometimes I feel that I've hit a wall for a week or two as an "adult" and then found that it was just a lull before I made some new progress. A coach should encourage your dreams, they might just be in for a surprise. Besides if you dream you will get further than if your realistic. If I would have believed that I only could do certain skills and obtain certain levels in skating as an adult I would have peaked long ago. I believe in myself and I believe I can learn and achieve much if I work at it.

You can do it too.

Chico 

SkatingOnClouds
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 709


Posted: 10-02-2006, 04:05 AM

 Yeah, I hear you Skaternum.

My coach has never made me feel I am wasting her limited time, or made me feel that I can't achieve. Our struggle is overcoming my desperation to get back to where I was right now, when there is much in my basics that holds me back. I just have a sense of limited time, and want to achieve all I can before the inevitable happens.

I guess I just didn't like to hear that a coach had said out loud what I never want to have to admit; that it ain't going to happen.

By the way, speaking of dreams Chico, last night I dreamed I did an axel. Not one of those slow motion everything beautiful sort of dream axels, but a real rough and ready yet landed on one foot sort of jobs that would be how it would be if I did do it for real. 

Casey
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1309


Posted: 10-02-2006, 05:01 AM

 Anybody can do anything...it's just a matter of willingness to learn, courage to overcome fear, playfulness to act like a kid sometimes (which will teach quite a lot that you'll never learn in any lesson), and a coach that's not willing to treat you any differently than anyone younger.

I've been helping an older friend learn to ice skate recently... I challenge him to do things and argue back when he doesn't want to, and try 20 different ways of explaining the same thing until we find something that works. In one day we went from "T-stops are impossible!" to doing them pretty well, and now he's doing them as well as anyone though he'd never done them before in his life. Today was day 2 on one-foot spins from back crossovers, and now he's no longer dragging the to-be-free-leg after the step onto the forward edge, getting around sometimes 4 times or so, and even got the push into a backspin hammered out. We worked on edge exercises and got them deeper and more confident. He can already do the outside edge exercises where you step from one onto the other and every 3rd one, hold the edge for a complete circle. We've done back edges, all the 3 turns, and a few brackets...all things dubbed "unachievable" at first.

He's learning really fast, and I'm not even a coach - I just keep trying different methods and advice until we find something that helps, and don't stop there. I love when something finally clicks and an immediate result can be seen. We also spend time doing things purposefully wrong or varied just to illustrate the difference in feel, and sometimes just act like kids which I think for me helped a lot with building confidence initially. But it's really all him just realizing his potential and getting out there and doing it.

This is a man who I don't doubt will have an axel and doubles within a few years and will end up competing well. By the end of this year I expect his spins to be getting solid, jumps to be up to the loop or flip, and overall moves and posture to be radically bettered. Meanwhile I see people in their 20's in lessons twice a week who look exactly the same as they did 6 months ago (and then there's me, who's gotten worse due to lack of practice and motivation...sigh). The difference is that though they are trying, they don't really believe in themselves at their age, and subconciously it holds them back.

One thing I've learned the hard way - if you set yourself up for failure you WILL fail. If you tell yourself you're fat and can't lose weight, you won't. If you tell yourself you're too old to make as fast as progress as a 10 year old, you won't. If you tell yourself your financial situation is hopeless and you're never going to escape living paycheck to paycheck...you won't. Not only do you have to really believe in yourself, but you have to believe so much that the constant doubts you hear because of your age or current status or whatever from people that don't matter don't make any difference.

Change is possible ANYWHERE that you want, and as long as you believe it, it can and will happen. For a coach, which should be someone you trust very much, to tell you anything unsupportive as mentioned above, is like your best friend coming to you and saying, "you know, you really are fat and ugly". Even if you're not and prior to that you never doubted yourself, that is really damaging and will eat at you.

My opinion is that you should not tolerate such negativity from anyone, especially your coach. Go find one that will believe in you. Nobody else is worth it no matter what their qualifications. And don't forget to believe in yourself unconditionally too, or all is for naught.

Best wishes, 

Rusty Blades
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1587


Posted: 10-02-2006, 06:10 AM

 My coach is also my best friend and we understand each other and we work well together. What appears (to an outsider) as "negativity" is her attempt to moderate my drive. I set high standards for myself, push myself really hard, and set high goals - I guess you could say I am a pretty intense "Type A" personality. My coach simply hasn't encountered anyone like me before (intensely DRIVEN!) and she is afraid I am setting myself up for failure and disappointment so she tries to keep my expectations realistic. We have only been working together since February and she is still learning that when I set my mind to something, it is GOING to happen! As a team, we are well balanced.

There's more I'd like to say but I am really starting to feel defensive about my coach/best friend so I had better shut up. 

Mrs Redboots
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10315


Posted: 10-02-2006, 06:42 AM

 I'll never be a good skater. On the other hand, I do think I can be a better skater than I am at the moment; I know I can use my edges better, I know I can probably improve my partnering skills (well, it does take two, but I think Husband is beginning to realise!).

And the next time my coach tells me that I am "not a natural athlete", which has been being said to me since I was about four years old, I think I'll smile very sweetly at him and say "Well, isn't that something I'm paying you to correct?" 

kateskate
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 446


Posted: 10-02-2006, 07:12 AM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Redboots 
I'll never be a good skater. On the other hand, I do think I can be a better skater than I am at the moment; I know I can use my edges better, I know I can probably improve my partnering skills (well, it does take two, but I think Husband is beginning to realise!).

And the next time my coach tells me that I am "not a natural athlete", which has been being said to me since I was about four years old, I think I'll smile very sweetly at him and say "Well, isn't that something I'm paying you to correct?"
 
 
Totally agree. You can always be better.

Free skating teacher says I'm not a natural skater to me all the time but does acknowledge that I work hard and can get results. And she doesn't let my age be an excuse. She treats me the same as she does her 12 yr old skater. We do the same tests at the same time usually - we are both doing bronze field moves next month - and although 12 yr old is way better than me its good to know I am not far off.

Dance teacher doesn't really think anyone is a natural skater and that anyone can do anything with hard work. He did say to me the other day though he wanted to keep practising so that he can still do all the stuff he used to and before he reaches the point of no return - although at 27 I think he is way off that point. He doesn't let me use the 'I'm not a natural skater' or 'I struggle with coordinating arms and feet at the same time' as an excuse ever - as you say - that is what the coach is there to correct.

Its easy for a coach to say you are too old and just give up trying to improve you- its harder for them to try and improve you - just because it usually takes that little bit longer - and needs more explanation. Just my opinion….. 

AW1
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 399


Posted: 10-02-2006, 08:30 AM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by d b n y 
This is the nature of life. As we get older, we lose some flexibility, we heal more slowly, we injure more easily, our reflexes slow down, and we have greater perspective. If you are not yet 50, you may not have the perspective and the experience to understand what it all means in terms of athletic endeavor.
 
 
I have to say it... you obvioiusly haven't seen this when you say you lose flexibility with age...

 

phoenix
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1714


Posted: 10-02-2006, 08:31 AM

 This is a very interesting discussion. Kateskate, from watching your videos & knowing how long you've been skating, there's definitely at least *some* natural skater in you!!! Although I totally believe & understand the hard work you've put in to do what you're doing.

I think about this a lot myself because of what my goals are vs. what my age is. I just turned 38+1 (can't actually say it yet). My goal is to get my gold dances, standard track, and also my senior free dance. And my feeling is I have to do it NOW because I don't know how long my body will hold up. I have definitely felt in the last couple of years how I can't just go out & skate anymore without a good warmup. I've definitely made progress, but it's slowed (I think mostly due to the level I've gotten to), and I feel like I'm in this race against time, but the only thing I can do is keep working hard--some things just don't come overnight no matter how hard you work (think being comfortable w/ fast bracket/3/brackets, yikes).....and whether it's because I'm an adult, or really pushing the upper edges of my ability, it has definitely slowed. I worry sometimes that time will win out!

I also have a student who's in her 70's (she refuses to tell me her actual age ), who started skating in her 60's. And has largely no natural feel for it. But she practices hard and she has made good progress over the few years I've been teaching her. Now---for HER, good progress means she can do very nice fwd crossovers, with no toe pushes. She can do stroking with good technique, forward & backward. She can do forward edge rolls. She can do back crossovers with some flow. We're just starting to work on mohawks. She has the most positive attitude of anyone I've met, but she will certainly never be a fast skater who has lots of tricks. But she loves her skating and I'm so proud of her. I wish all my students were like her! 

Skate@Delaware
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3730


Posted: 10-02-2006, 08:34 AM

 Casey you are right. I see and hear from the other adults in my rink, "I can't do xxx" and they prove themselves right. We have one woman who has been in LTS for 4 years and is still working on stroking and 3-turns and has not progressed above them. Mainly it is fear and lack of confidence holding them back. You do reach a point where you have to "go for it" but that does not mean going-for-broke! It's just a step of confidence to take it away from the wall, or jump off that toepick, and finally believe in yourself. We can be our own worst enemies as far as limitations go. I try not to be negative anymore and I've stopped saying "I'll never get this" so instead I say "I'm frustrated" or "this is hard." And it helps to have a coach (and friends) that inspire confidence in you and can think out of the box as far as teaching technique (mine is good at that, when one thing doesn't work, she tries something else).

ETA: I was going through a period when I had "do-it-now-itis" because I was feeling my skating biological clock ticking away....I was afraid if I didn't hurry and test boom-boom-boom and do this, that, or the other thing, time would pass me by and I'd never get the chance again (I have health problems and sometimes I freak out because they can change your whole perspective on life in general). I've calmed down a bit from this. I'm still driven but I've become focused and driven to do certain things in a more timely manner. I will get done what I can get done and I don't think anyone can fault me for not having done any less. 


Offline JimStanmore

  • Administrator
  • Intergalactic Ice Dancer
  • *****
  • Joined: Aug 2010
  • Location: Southern, NJ
  • Posts: 422
  • Total GOE: 383
  • Gender: Male
Re: Older Skaters & Limitations - fsf, 5837 Views, 277 Posts
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2010, 11:26:06 PM »
techskater
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1451


Posted: 10-02-2006, 08:53 AM

 There's a difference between caution and can't.

I am saying that as adults we tend to have more caution than if we were 9 years old. I know I do and I have very limited fear on the ice. I think through my approach to elements now in a way I never did as a kid and it really helps because I know I can't spend two hours doing jump after jump after jump like I did when I was 15 because I'll pay for it the next day.

My coach doesn't treat me as if I'm an adult. She works me very hard, doesn't take "can't" for an answer when we are working on an element, and fully expects me to be able to land a double axel some day (I set that as a goal when we first started working together as a pie-in-the-sky goal, but I am steadily progressing to it) along with passing Senior moves and possibly my Senior FS. That being said, when we are working on a new jump, she DOES advocate caution (slow down!) and spend a lot of time on the mechanics that she might not do with a kid. 

DallasSkater
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 282


Posted: 10-02-2006, 08:54 AM

 Rusty Blades: I adore that you feel defensive about protecting the special relationship you have with your coach and that you took her feedback as it was meant. As I have posted about the importance of a good relationship with a coach, know that I am envious!

I think this thread has more been a reflection of each person's experience rather than a discussion about the appropriateness of your specific coach. You have obviously chosen well. Further, it sounds like you have done well in being assertive with your coach and getting her on board with your major competiton goals! You raaaawwwk!

Skate@Delaware: What a great way to change some self talk. My coach has teased me the last several sessions reminding me that I told her I could never do edges, I would never jump, I would never spin and in the last lesson I said I just can't do the salchow! I will adopt your statement of "this is hard" instead. When she reminded me of my previous statements I told her I could not do a salchow.....YET! giggle.

Phoenix: Very cool that you are teaching someone at that age. I had had thoughts that I might learn all these skating skills and have such a limited time to be able to enjoy them! 

Rusty Blades
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1587


Posted: 10-02-2006, 09:10 AM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by DallasSkater 
I adore that you feel defensive about protecting the special relationship you have with your coach and that you took her feedback as it was meant.
 
 
Thank you Dallas! We have a great "balanced" relationship - I try to go a zillion miles an hour and she tries to make sure I don't crash and burn! I don't accept "can't - it isn't an excuse/reason I am inclined to use. When I get frustrated, her comments are more along the lines of "Don't be so hard on yourself." In the 9 months since I started skating I have cracked a rib, twisted my right knee, and presently skate on a sprained ankle but I wont back off - I don't need to be "pushed" but to be held back to a sane pace! She does that well (and gently). 

quarkiki2
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1365


Posted: 10-02-2006, 10:24 AM

 I'm perfectly willing to admit that my enormous pink elephant is FEAR.

I have all of the goods to be a great skater -- balance, flexibility, musicality, work ethic and desire. And ONE bad factor: FEAR.

I danced seriously as a kid (was in a semi-professional ballet company). I have more body awareness and knowledge in my pinky toe than most people who get on the ice (this isn't me saying this -- my coach tells me this). I can do axels off ice, but try the stinkin' waltz jump on the ice -- no way!

She says my timing is great, my placement over my blades is right, and my knowledge of technique is right on -- BUT I just need to get out of my darn head. This is a regular topic of discussion for us because there's no reason I can't be doing everything right -- just that I WON'T do it. It's frustrating to no end. I know that one day, somthing will click and I will improve so rapidly that you won't recognize me from week to week. I just need to get to that point, grrrr!!!! 

phoenix
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1714


Posted: 10-02-2006, 10:35 AM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by quarkiki2 
It's frustrating to no end. I know that one day, somthing will click and I will improve so rapidly that you won't recognize me from week to week. I just need to get to that point, grrrr!!!!
 
 
My suggestion would be to pad yourself up to the gills, & go out & have a splat fest!! Seriously--eliminate the fear of it hurting when you fall, and then go out & intentionally lower yourself down & fall & slide. Once that's not scary, do a sit spin (I'm assuming you can spin), & go down until you fall.

And then as you get bolder & start to try more things, like your waltz jump, keep the pads on. I think in your case, it may be the extra help you need to push you past this point where you're stuck.

Repetition of the "scary thing" actually happening, with no ill effects, is the way to eliminate fear in the human psyche. 

Rusty Blades
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1587


Posted: 10-02-2006, 10:39 AM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix 
... pad yourself
 
 
That's exactly what I did when "fear" was holding me back in backwards. I was afraid of going down on my tailbone so I made a butt pad. No fear anymore - it's like landing on a pillow 

jazzpants
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7053


Posted: 10-02-2006, 10:46 AM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix 
My suggestion would be to pad yourself up to the gills, & go out & have a splat fest!! Seriously--eliminate the fear of it hurting when you fall, and then go out & intentionally lower yourself down & fall & slide. Once that's not scary, do a sit spin (I'm assuming you can spin), & go down until you fall.

And then as you get bolder & start to try more things, like your waltz jump, keep the pads on. I think in your case, it may be the extra help you need to push you past this point where you're stuck.

Repetition of the "scary thing" actually happening, with no ill effects, is the way to eliminate fear in the human psyche.
 
 
And of course, there are those with coaches that would NOT allow us to wear pads on a normal basis and face falling and hurting ourselves anyway!!! 

Isk8NYC
Board Moderator
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 9895


Posted: 10-02-2006, 11:25 AM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by techskater 
There's a difference between caution and can't.
 
 
There's also a big difference between can't and won't. I'm not going to debate the physical limitations, because I think everyone's done a great job of that so far.

However, the MENTAL portion of it is what holds most skaters back. I have three students who whine "I caaaaaan't do that!" to pretty much anything. These are pre-teens - the adults just think it, the kids think out loud. LOL

This summer, one of the bigger chicks went to a summer camp that had skating and other activities. When I challenge her in a lesson, I just say "Were you the one spinning around up on the "silks" this summer? You CAN do this, then - just say you'll try." She's working on a beautiful split jump now. 

skaternum
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2077


Posted: 10-02-2006, 11:33 AM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by Casey 
Anybody can do anything...it's just a matter of willingness to learn, courage to overcome fear, playfulness to act like a kid sometimes (which will teach quite a lot that you'll never learn in any lesson), and a coach that's not willing to treat you any differently than anyone younger.
 
 
Ya know, I just have to disagree with this. Most people can go farther than they think, but everyone has limitations. I'm all for a positive attitude, but it is not a true statement that anybody can do anything. 

coskater64
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 893


Posted: 10-02-2006, 12:25 PM

 Well, there is a difference between can't and won't, I can't do something at this moment doesn't mean it will never occur. I often say I can't, but I never say I won't...

I think a lot of determination is a given in skating and while I am only in my mid 40's I am not built like a skater, it has not come easily to me but I work very hard at it and my coach doesn't treat me like an adult, she treats me like someone who wants to learn and grow at the sport.

If you think you can't you usually won't so, that's all there is to that but as a side note you should be realistic in your expectations. I'd like all my dances standard track, finish Sr. moves and I'd be happy with my Nov FS, might also shot for some of the Free Dances since I got my Juv last year.

 

Mel On Ice
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2016


Posted: 10-02-2006, 12:57 PM

 I wish I could be all sunshine and rainbows, "always dream!" about my own chances at someday landing an axel or double, but I have to be realistic about things at the age of 37. I won't ever give up on making an axel or double toe a goal, but I also realize I have time against me. I also have other goals that take precedent - career, family, makin' babies, continuing to trial and move up the judging ladder. 

d b n y
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 8168


Posted: 10-02-2006, 01:18 PM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by skaternum 
Ya know, I just have to disagree with this. Most people can go farther than they think, but everyone has limitations. I'm all for a positive attitude, but it is not a true statement that anybody can do anything.
 
 
You beat me to it. I can remember feeling that way, way back when! Look around and you will see an amazing variation of body types, some of which are going to be good at certain things, and others of which will never be able to achieve some of those things. Don't leave out people with non-typical bodies. We haven't even talked about brains yet, but it's pretty clear that some brains are capable of more than others. We are not all Einsteins.


AW1
Flexibility is variable, as is everything else about individual members of a species. Some people are more naturally flexible than others and retain it longer, even into old age like the 80 yr old woman I wish I hadn't seen (sorry, the whole vid turned me off). Others have to struggle from the start. I've seen the difference in my two girls. One was made of rubber and the other was simply not so flexible. I'm talking about toddlers here! The difference was visible. 

skaternum
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2077

Post Title: Being treated like an adult
Posted: 10-02-2006, 01:33 PM

 Why is it that many people here seem to equate being treated "like an adult" by a coach to be something horrid? Why is it assumed that this is bad? Perhaps it's a bad wording choice. What exactly do you people mean? Does being treated like an adult mean that you're not pushed? Not encouraged to be the best skater you can be? Not given the same time and attention as the younger students? If that's the case, you're not being treated "like an adult;" you're simply the recipient of bad coaching or a bad attitude.

To me, being treated "like an adult" on the ice means that my coach works within my physical limitations (knees & back, for example) and my time restrictions while giving me focused, professional coaching. It means having my coach acknowledge that I learn differently from her 10 year olds and that she uses that knowledge to help me become the best skater I can be.

I don't want to be the recipient of a bad coaching attitude. I do want to be treated "like an adult" by my coach. 

doubletoe
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4325


Posted: 10-02-2006, 01:36 PM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by AW1 
I have to say it... you obvioiusly haven't seen this when you say you lose flexibility with age...


 
 
I agree! The reason most people lose flexibility with age is because they stop doing the things that kept them flexible when they were younger. I was never able to do the splits when I was a kid or a teenager; the only time I've ever done a complete split in my life was at age 29, while stretching out after several hours of skating. But yesterday--at 41--I came the closest I've ever come to repeating it (my crotch was about 2-3 inches off the floor) and I managed to go down just as far with my left leg in front. That's the side that is so tight in the upper hamstring and glute that I've been going to physical therapy for it. 

Sonic
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 361


Posted: 10-02-2006, 05:01 PM

 I don't think age is necessarily a problem when it comes to athleticism or flexibility - there's a chap at our rink in his late 60's who does amazing shoot the jumps and leaps around the rink without a care in the world.

We adult skaters have it harder than kids; for a start most of us are taller and have a higher centre of gravity...and further to fall. We don't bounce as much as kids, and even those with more of a 'dare' gene in them have to be more cautious.

That does not mean that there are no 'natural' adult skaters; watching some of the vids on here such as Kateskate's and Doubletoe proves that in my book, as did watching the competition yesterday.

IMHO to be a good skater at any age it's perhaps 5% natural talent...and 95% hard work.

S xxx (who can't jump high, can't do a shoot the duck but can spin 10 times better than she did as a kid!) 

Offline JimStanmore

  • Administrator
  • Intergalactic Ice Dancer
  • *****
  • Joined: Aug 2010
  • Location: Southern, NJ
  • Posts: 422
  • Total GOE: 383
  • Gender: Male
Re: Older Skaters & Limitations - fsf, 5837 Views, 277 Posts
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2010, 11:26:30 PM »
ouijaouija
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 161


Posted: 10-02-2006, 06:18 PM

 I really think the sky is the limit, we all have our problems, but that just means you have to work harder, and we all have good points too! 

looplover
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 722

Post Title: Physics?
Posted: 10-02-2006, 06:46 PM

 Isn't so much of it physics anyway, and working with that?

I'm about to turn 39 and somehow I'm skating better than I ever have in my life (thanks to a better attitude after 2 months off ice). I'm noticing more and more how the placement of my shoulderblades make a huge difference, and I'm a zillion times better skater now than I was when I was in my mid 20s. It seems like no matter what your body size is you should be able to work with physics and get that jump or spin...and the only limit to speed is fear...and with age comes fear...so it seems that fear is the problem and not age.

I think.

Anyway I skate with a guy who is 46 and has the lowest sit spin I have ever seen, I have no doubt he'll be doing that spin for years to come! And his jumps are huge. I always tell him with him around I have no excuse not to progress 

Hannahclear
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1312


Posted: 10-02-2006, 06:56 PM

 I'm somewhere in the middle on this.

I have a job. I have a husband and I will soon have children. I have bills to pay. I have stuff to do. I can't spend two hours per day in the rink.

However, I'm a hard worker, I pay attention to my coach and I practice regularly. No, I'm not making crazy fast progress, but I am a much better skater than I was at this time last year. I was a better skater last year than I was when I got my first post college lessons. And I became a better skater in college than I had been in my high school days.

My moves coach puts it to me like this....."you make steady, incremental progress."

And that's all I want. I want to keep getting better, bit by bit. I'm no great talent and I don't have the time or money to train more than three days per week with an hour of lessons. But it's enough. It's enough for that bit by bit progress.

That makes me very happy.

On the other hand, you have to WANT success. Within each individuals limitations, they have to WANT to get done what they can. I have to WANT to land my axel. I'm starting to understand that. And sure enough, I'm starting to get closer. I'm starting to remember what happens while I'm in the air. I'm starting to be willing to force myself to land on one foot, no matter what happens.

So WANTING is important. Drive is part of the picture, along with realistic expectations. 

jazzpants
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7053


Posted: 10-02-2006, 07:07 PM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by AW1 
I have to say it... you obvioiusly haven't seen this when you say you lose flexibility with age...


 
 
YIKES!!! Would someone please warned me to watch this video at home and not at work??? That's some outfit the dance team's got there!!! 

doubletoe
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4325


Posted: 10-02-2006, 07:16 PM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by looplover 
Isn't so much of it physics anyway, and working with that?

It seems like no matter what your body size is you should be able to work with physics and get that jump or spin...and the only limit to speed is fear...and with age comes fear...so it seems that fear is the problem and not age.
 
 
I think that is absolutely true. If a fairly athletic adult started skating at 35 and a 9-year old started skating at the same time, provided we each practiced only 6 hours per week and had the same fear level, I think the progress would be similar. Unfortunately, the other difference is that these kids are practicing 15 hours a week and our bodies can no longer handle the same number of hours at the same intensity. That makes it harder to make the same progress, even without the fear. 

AW1
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 399


Posted: 10-02-2006, 08:19 PM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzpants 
YIKES!!! Would someone please warned me to watch this video at home and not at work??? That's some outfit the dance team's got there!!! 
 
 
Sorry I can only access the internet at home so I forget others don't. Yes the outfits were scary... but boy can she do some wild stuff for an 84 year old! 

cecealias
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 271


Posted: 10-02-2006, 08:24 PM

 Might I add --- always a great idea to have your coach show you how to fall so its not so painful!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzpants 
And of course, there are those with coaches that would NOT allow us to wear pads on a normal basis and face falling and hurting ourselves anyway!!! 
 
 
 

jazzpants
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7053


Posted: 10-02-2006, 08:43 PM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by AW1 
Sorry I can only access the internet at home so I forget others don't. Yes the outfits were scary... but boy can she do some wild stuff for an 84 year old! 
 
 
Okay, I did managed to wait 'til my coworkers are gone for the day...

MY, MY....GRANDMA!!! What nice split you have!!! There's probably lots of practice that was done prior to that... and no one in particular was paying much attention to Coldplay playing in the background, which was just as weird... 

doubletoe
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4325


Posted: 10-02-2006, 08:53 PM

 I have to say, I love Coldplay even MORE now. 

Chico
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 642


Posted: 10-02-2006, 11:01 PM

 skatingintheclouds, I dream about doing perfect axels in my dreams all the time. Maybe we'll be at the same rink in our dreams some time axeling our brains out. =-)

Chico 

SkatingOnClouds
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 709


Posted: 10-03-2006, 03:54 AM

 There have been some wonderfully different points of view here, and it has helped me a lot.

Dianne, I am sorry if this thread has made you uncomfortable. Obviously you are not upset by what your coach said, and that is important. I have realised that this is all about my attitude, my fears.

I don't consider my age when I skate, most of the time I forget my age - unless coach asks for more knee bend, and then I want to say I am 47 years old, my knees don't bend more than this.

But the replies on this thread have helped me realise that what I want to achieve is possible because I want it, I am prepared to work for it, and I believe in it. And that it is okay to let my coach slow me down and make me work on the basics that need fixing otherwise they'll hold me back.

More power to all the "older" skaters out there pushing on regardless. I think this forum is full of amazing people. 

Rusty Blades
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1587


Posted: 10-03-2006, 05:40 AM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by SkatingOnClouds 
Dianne, I am sorry if this thread has made you uncomfortable.
 
 
No problem. as you say, there are a lot of good points to ponder. (But I wont even consider changing coaches - LOL!)

Quote:
I don't consider my age when I skate, most of the time I forget my age - unless coach asks for more knee bend, and then I want to say I am 47 years old, my knees don't bend more than this. 
 
Nor do I think about age - I'm still 16, right?

As to the age excuse, that doesn't work on my coach. When I tried that, she gives me off-ice exercises to improve the flex, turn-out, or whatever. I learned it's smarter to just skip the excuse and keep working at it rather than getting more "homework"!

Quote:
More power to all the "older" skaters out there pushing on regardless. I think this forum is full of amazing people. 
 
INDEED! 

samba
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 827


Posted: 10-03-2006, 11:46 AM

 The video just made me weep, this lady is fantastic!! 

lovepairs
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 718


Posted: 10-03-2006, 01:34 PM

 "Limitations" are only in your head. With good nutrition, proper rest, plenty of excersize, and lots of love, we no longer have to embrace limitations anymore. The old paradigm of retiring at 65 turning into a coach potatoes, or an old stooped over lady, or an old wrinkly man doesn't have to apply anymore if you choose not to take that path. No matter what the age, people shouldn't place limitations on one another, but rather encourage each other to go as far as we can, and, especially, our coaches. Get rid of the negativity surrounding you, and you will see how far you can go, and all of the wonderful things that you can achieve!

The ice is the Fountain of Youth...albeit Frozen! 

d b n y
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 8168


Posted: 10-03-2006, 04:59 PM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by lovepairs 
"Limitations" are only in your head. With good nutrition, proper rest, plenty of excersize, and lots of love, we no longer have to embrace limitations anymore. The old paradigm of retiring at 65 turning into a coach potatoes, or an old stooped over lady, or an old wrinkly man doesn't have to apply anymore if you choose not to take that path. No matter what the age, people shouldn't place limitations on one another, but rather encourage each other to go as far as we can, and, especially, our coaches. Get rid of the negativity surrounding you, and you will see how far you can go, and all of the wonderful things that you can achieve!

The ice is the Fountain of Youth...albeit Frozen! 
 
 
This is not entirely true. Here is a brief quotation from a recent NY Times article titled "Baby Boomers Stay Active, and So Do Their Doctors ":

"Boomers are the first generation that grew up exercising, and the first that expects, indeed demands, that they be able to exercise into their 70's," said Dr. Nicholas A. DiNubile, a Philadelphia-area orthopedic surgeon, who coined and trademarked the term boomeritis.

"But evolution doesn't work that quick. Physically, you can't necessarily do at 50 what you did at 25. We've worn out the warranty on some body parts. That's why so many boomers are breaking down. It ought to be called Generation Ouch."

You have to sign in to read the entire article, and you may have to be a subscriber or have paid for premium access. LMK if anyone wants to see more of it. 

Offline JimStanmore

  • Administrator
  • Intergalactic Ice Dancer
  • *****
  • Joined: Aug 2010
  • Location: Southern, NJ
  • Posts: 422
  • Total GOE: 383
  • Gender: Male
Re: Older Skaters & Limitations - fsf, 5837 Views, 277 Posts
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2010, 11:26:53 PM »
doubletoe
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4325


Posted: 10-03-2006, 05:14 PM

 
Quote from: d b n y
"Boomers are the first generation that grew up exercising, and the first that expects, indeed demands, that they be able to exercise into their 70's," said Dr. Nicholas A. DiNubile, a Philadelphia-area orthopedic surgeon, who coined and trademarked the term boomeritis.

"But evolution doesn't work that quick. Physically, you can't necessarily do at 50 what you did at 25. We've worn out the warranty on some body parts. That's why so many boomers are breaking down. It ought to be called Generation Ouch."

That's true. Just like there are only so many miles you can put on the transmission in your car before it breaks down, there are only so many moments of impact that each joint can absorb over a lifetime. That's why Tara Lipinski had to have hip replacement at 19 and Rudy Galindo has had to have both hips replaced at a relatively young age as well. So it's not so much a matter of age as it is a matter of mileage.
On the bright side, we should still be able to stretch and maintain/regain flexibility. Also, those of us who did not skate growing up probably have more skating years ahead of us because we haven't worn out our joints yet! (I'd like to think so, anyway). We just need to use good technique and not waste our jump (or sitspin) attempts on the ones we're going to mess up on. 

skateflo
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 285


Posted: 10-03-2006, 05:48 PM

 I've enjoyed this thread very much in spite of it wandering some from the original post......

We all have various levels of committment both for on-ice and off-ice practice to be the best we can. "Life" does get in the way in spite of our best intentions. Jobs and family and home responsibilities must be factored in. Sure, I would love to do off-ice exercising everyday but I go through times when I plane just don't feel like it. I truly admire those people who really dedicate themselves to the 'full' program to maximize their skating.

And body breakdowns do occur - I have spent more time off the ice in the past 3 years than at any other time. But my desire to get back on the ice is still there. It did wane quite a bit this past year after a bad back injury and I wondered if it was time to call it quits.....yet I keep monitoring various message groups and find I just can't quit now. My ortho MD says no jumping as I already have fissures in my femur (landing leg) and things looked quite poorly during last year's arthoscopy. And the back surgeon doesn't want me torquing, nor the ortho MD because of the big shoulder repair he did also. How can I skate without rotating or doing my simple single jumps!!! I have no interest in dance.

I regret that I was not more dedicated to my skating the first 6-7 years. I just didn't put in enough practice time, especially since I am not a 'natural.' We all go through plateaus both on the ice and off. As I turn 60 in December, I still think I can reach some of my goals and just enjoy skating for the challenge and exercise. I am NOT ready to throw in the towel due to age or body breakdowns. I'm getting used to these bumps in the road toward maturity....but it doesn't mean I like them! I do know my old coach would take me back in a heartbeat if and when I am back on the ice regularly. She enjoyed teaching adults and never made me feel that she was making allowances for my age or lack of natural talent. Her patience kept me going when others would have said 'forget it lady.' 

skaternum
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2077


Posted: 10-03-2006, 06:04 PM

 It never ceases to amaze me how some people are willing to overlook blatant obvious physical facts. Not everyone can be a great skater. Not everyone can get an axel. The body changes as it ages -- and most of it for the worse. I don't understand what's so awful about admitting these things. There's a difference between positivism and delusion.

As a skater, I'm very positive about my skating. I skate as much as my body can tolerate, am focused, highly motivated, and believe I will land that axel and the doubles I've been chasing. But I'm not so delusional as to think that having the right attitude and working "smarter" with my body is going to keep it from deteriorating. The rest of my joints are going to lose cartilage. I will lose muscle mass at some point. And if I'm not careful (and maybe even if I am), I'm going to have bone density issues once I go through menopause.

I ask again, what is so wrong about acknowledging this? It doesn't make me abandon all hope of an axel. It doesn't make me decide to work less hard. And it certainly doesn't make me stop trying to compensate for the physical deterioriation. But what is so wrong about acknowledging it?

Somebody stop me before I bust into a chorus of "I'm Every Woman" or "Reach." 

crayonskater
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 424


Posted: 10-03-2006, 06:04 PM

 I think everyone in this thread is a little bit right. Most adults can go further than they think they can, and most adults have physical limitations that their younger selves didn't, even without factoring in time, money, and other obligations.

I'm only 27, and I can see a difference. When I was 15 and dancing, I could jump and land a split cold, no warm up, no split training. At 27, it doesn't happen. Doesn't mean I can't be flexible, it just takes more effort.

The real problem in my case is that I'm beginning to suspect I don't have any skating talent. 

lovepairs
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 718


Posted: 10-03-2006, 06:15 PM

 " Quote:
"But evolution doesn't work that quick. Physically, you can't necessarily do at 50 what you did at 25. We've worn out the warranty on some body parts. That's why so many boomers are breaking down. It ought to be called Generation Ouch." 
 
Actually, I'm doing way more at 50 then I did at 25, because I'm in way better shape now due to good nutrition and excersize. I really don't by into this at all, and think it is an unfortunate "mind set," and nothing more or less.

I'm not trying to be "Polly Anna" about this either. The mind and body work together. In otherwords, you do what you are able to do at whatever age, and do it to the best of your desire. It's really not as simple as "oh, I'm growing old, therefore my body is breaking down like an old car, too bad, now I can't do what I really want to do anymore." It's all how you choose to look at it...it's either half full, or half empty...seeing the boomers as "breaking down" is a real negative mind set and seeing the glass as half empty. You can just as easily choose to see it as half full, and say "Wow, the boomers look more in shape, and are aging very differently then our grandparents did." Hmm, they don't look as old as our grandparents did at that age (at least the boomers who choose to take care of themselves.) Hmm, I wonder why? Because they are approaching aging with a positive rather than a negative mind set, and they are the first generation that has excersized and some of them have even given some serious thought to what they are eating, too. Why do you think there is even such a phenomenon as "Adult Skating?" Because it is US not willing to give in and taking far better care of our "cars." Every so often, you see some of those antique cars on the roadway...because, their owners take care of them and maintain them...so, they still go places.

Oleg Protopopov said this to me recently "I reached a point in my life where I looked at my friends, who were deteriorating and their bodies were breaking down. At that moment, I decided I can either walk the path to the cemetery, or I could take the path back to the ice." He and his wife, Ludmila are in the early 70's and train on the ice 5 hours per day. They are a beautiful example of what it looks like to age healthy, robustly, and never give up on life. It's just a choice. Nothing is obvious and nothing is blatent. It is what you choose to do, how you choose to think, and the path you choose to take--either the ice, or the cemetery.

And by the way, Skaternum, you are a beautiful skater and definitely will have your axel and have doubles. Just don't get caught in the trap of thinking you are too old to have them, and you will have them. I'm going to have them, too! 

Skittl1321
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2778


Posted: 10-03-2006, 06:18 PM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by lovepairs 
"Limitations" are only in your head. With good nutrition, proper rest, plenty of excersize, and lots of love, we no longer have to embrace limitations anymore.
 
 
I too have to disagree with this. I probably could have gone a lot further as a child then I will ever be able to go as an adult. And I, like many others, realize that my biggest limitation is fear. But my fear is based in an incredibly serious injury I had as a teenager and wish never to repeat. To some extent, it is also a limiting factor physically- due to loss of range of motion, and due to the injuries I could potentially cause myself more easily than others can.

If I had skated as a child I would not have had to deal with the fear caused by breaking my neck. I would not have to limit my activity to make sure that I do not further damage my spinal cord. But now, because I have lived my life, this injury has happened, and I have to adjust my activities accordingly.

I'm still skating. I know I could seriously injure myself, but at the stage I am skating at now, I think the chance of me hurting myself is about the same as that of other skaters. As I progress in skating there may be a point where my physical condition requires that I stop- maybe stop skating, maybe stop doing whatever is causing undue stress on my body. It is a definetly a limitation. There is nothing I can do now to unfuse my bones, heal the hole in my spinal cord and pretend it never happened. A good diet, rest and exercise won't help. 

d b n y
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 8168


Posted: 10-03-2006, 06:33 PM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by skaternum 
It never ceases to amaze me how some people are willing to overlook blatant obvious physical facts. ... There's a difference between positivism and delusion.
 
 
And those who are delusional, will have their eyes opened by a collision with reality sooner or later. 

Rusty Blades
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1587


Posted: 10-03-2006, 06:35 PM

 Quote:
you do what you are able to do at whatever age, and do it to the best of your desire 
 
If you change the last word to "ability" I will agree with you 100%!

I left skating 36 years ago after I wrecked and did serious injury to both my knees (in the days before "sports medicine"). I spent many months on crutches and nearly two decades with knee problems. There was undoubtedly damage done that can never be repaired.

Nine months into my "return to skating" my knees haven't given me any trouble but the LAST thing I attempt will be jumps because, if the knee problems come back, it could take me off the ice and I don't want that. If anything gets to the knees, it would probably be jumps (because of the impact and strain) but I would rather be an "Artistic" skater and do Skills than to push too far into Freeskate and loose it all again. I am listening to my body because I want to skate to a ripe old age.

(Did I just say that? The crazy woman who is skating with a sprained ankle???) 

lovepairs
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 718


Posted: 10-03-2006, 06:41 PM

 Skitt,

Sorry to hear about your injury. It sounds very serious. I never meant to imply that just excersise, rest, and good nutrition would cure a serious injury. However, it seems to be something that you are working with, because you continue to desire to skate. In fact, you are a perfect example of a person who thinks "positively" and does what they can do, the best that they can do it, regardless of what happened. I'm not implying that everything has to be perfect. All I'm saying it that the way we think and approach things (including fear) is a very powerful tool! All things being equal (meaning each and everyone of us, including kid skaters, has something chronic, or problematic that we live with. I certainly do, too) aging doesn't necessarily have to be seen as a "limitation." That's all.

By the way, d b n y, I've had plenty of serious injuries from skating, several that have landed me in the emergancy ward and physical therapy. I choose to continue to skate and not to be afraid of it. Thanks for the well wishes. 

d b n y
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 8168


Posted: 10-03-2006, 06:53 PM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by lovepairs 
Thanks for the well wishes.
 
 


I'm sorry to hear you've been injured skating, and I most certainly am not wishing more injuries on you.

I haven't read anything here that I would describe as negative thinking, so I don't get why you are preaching against it.

In addition to obvious physical differences, there are differences in how much pain can be tolerated and how much stress or fear, so the fact that you are still unafraid is wonderful, but does not mean that anyone else in your place would, could, or even should be. I've never had anasthetic of any kind for dental fillings, and not even for a crown. The pain just doesn't get to me enough to warrant taking a drug for it. I happen to be more talented in enduring dental work than I am in dealing with prospective injuries on the ice. So what! I'm not saying just get over your negative thinking and you too can have dental work without anasthetic. How foolish does that sound? Yet, what you and some others are saying about your approach to ice skating is the equivalent. 

d b n y
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 8168


Posted: 10-03-2006, 07:05 PM

 ....oops... posted instead of adding via edit to previous post. 

doubletoe
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4325


Posted: 10-03-2006, 07:37 PM

 Looking at everyone's input on both sides of the argument, I'm thinking we might all be able to agree on two things:
1. We can continue to improve our skating skills in one way or another as we get older, especially if we train smarter, rather than harder.
2. While it is true that our bodies eventually wear out and our ability to perform certain physical feats diminishes with age, there is no one pre-set limitation that fits every adult skater. While there is a limit for every person, you won't know what it is until you get there. Placing a set limitation on an adult skater could limit his/her ability to reach his/her actual potential, whatever that may be.

If I were in denial about the amount of abuse my 41-year old body could take, I would still be flinging myself in the air with abandon on every jump and sit-spinning all the cartilage out of my knees rather than limiting the number of sitspins I do per week. On the other hand, if I'd bought into "conventional wisdom," I would never have taken up figure skating at 27 and I certainly never would tried to land my first double salchow and double toeloop just shy of 40. I am expecting to land my first double loop at 41 or 42, and there's no physical reason why I shouldn't be able to. Having said that, I don't intend to ever beat up my body to the extent I see the kids beating up theirs trying to master the double axel, so I'll never find out if I'd be able to land my first one in my 40's or not! But that's just me. 

d b n y
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 8168


Posted: 10-03-2006, 07:38 PM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by doubletoe 
Looking at everyone's input on both sides of the argument, I'm thinking we might all be able to agree on two things:
1. We can continue to improve our skating skills in one way or another as we get older, especially if we train smarter, rather than harder.
2. While it is true that our bodies eventually wear out and our ability to perform certain physical feats diminishes with age, there is no one pre-set limitation that fits every adult skater. While there is a limit for every person, you won't know what it is until you get there. Placing a set limitation on an adult skater could limit his/her ability to reach his/her actual potential, whatever that may be.
 
 
Well said! 

Skittl1321
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2778


Posted: 10-03-2006, 08:06 PM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by lovepairs 
I never meant to imply that just excersise, rest, and good nutrition would cure a serious injury.
 
 
I know that's not what you're implying- but I happen to have a very extreme case that can be used as an example. (And as serious as it is, I was very very lucky, and I know that everyday). But the thing is, even the small things "my knees aren't what they used to be" are limitations.

Skaters can, and should- try to do everything they personally can. But I think it's silly to think that with all the work, coaching, and time in the world everyone could be doing triple axels.

I do agree, however, that people need to leave excess fear at the rink door. A little fear keeps you from doing stupid things, too much keeps you from doing anything! 

lovepairs
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 718


Posted: 10-03-2006, 08:47 PM

 I think the title of this thread is "Older Skaters and Limitations." I'd much prefer to see our "limitations" as "challenges," meaning something that we ALL deal with and have to work through (again, including the kids.) About age, well, it's really just a number. I feel in many ways a lot "younger" now then it did when I was "younger." I'm 50 and don't regard myself as old, or limited. So, back to the original poster; if I had a coach that told me "sorry dear, but you're too old and your car is starting to breaking down," well, I'd go find another coach. That's all. 

Offline JimStanmore

  • Administrator
  • Intergalactic Ice Dancer
  • *****
  • Joined: Aug 2010
  • Location: Southern, NJ
  • Posts: 422
  • Total GOE: 383
  • Gender: Male
Re: Older Skaters & Limitations - fsf, 5837 Views, 277 Posts
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2010, 11:27:15 PM »
skaternum
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 2077


Posted: 10-03-2006, 09:01 PM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by lovepairs 
And by the way, Skaternum, you are a beautiful skater and definitely will have your axel and have doubles. Just don't get caught in the trap of thinking you are too old to have them, and you will have them. I'm going to have them, too!
 
 
Thanks for the compliment, lovepairs. But at the risk of sounding persnickity, I'm a little miffed at the admonition. I'm perfectly confident in my abilities on the ice. That's the whole point I was trying to make. I don't need a bunch of sunshine positivism to motivate me, and I'm not afraid to acknowledge my physical limitations. I've spent most of my life either dancing or skating, and I'm more in tune with my body than most people, I think. What I see as realism, you see as defeatism. What I see as delusion, you see as positivism. Guess we just don't see things the same way. 

slusher
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 696


Posted: 10-03-2006, 09:30 PM

 I started skating around age 40. I was very competitive in another sport in my teens and twenties. In that sport I will never be anywhere near that competitive level again and it pains me. Pains me so that I don't even participate in that sport recreationally. If people ask me to go play, I say that I don't know how, sorry. If I can't go full out, I don't want it and have completely walked away. I can understand how Rusty Blades feels, because if I went back to that sport and my brain image didn't match what my body was doing, I'd be hugely angry.

I bring that mental focus and years of training to skating but am well aware of the limitations of my body. There are injuries that prevent me from doing some things. No, let me restate that. I have injuries and damaged joints that do not stop me from doing everything, but if I choose to throw myself around the rink in search of an axel, I could probably do an axel, but it would be at the expense of further injury. So, I don't believe that I will do an axel because I have chosen another path that will permit me to skate until I'm dead instead of being in a wheelchair. If a coach said that I didn't have the body of a 16 year old, I'd totally agree, because I don't. But for a woman nudging up to 50, I'm pretty good.

I also can't go to keg parties and drink all night then go to school the next day like I did at age 18. Somehow that ability has disappeared also. 

Award
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 329


Posted: 10-03-2006, 10:03 PM

 I'd be interested to look at some stats on age and skating skills. Like, the record age for guys and girls for doing triples. That is, oldest guy that does triples, and oldest girl that does triples. Also, oldest guy and oldest girl that does quads. 

doubletoe
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4325


Posted: 10-03-2006, 10:09 PM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by Award 
I'd be interested to look at some stats on age and skating skills. Like, the record age for guys and girls for doing triples. That is, oldest guy that does triples, and oldest girl that does triples. Also, oldest guy and oldest girl that does quads.
 
 
Doing a jump at a certain age is very different from learning that jump for the first time at that age, KWIM? I suspect that the number of injuries a skater tends to accumulate on the way to mastering a jump is what really takes its toll on the body, rather than continuing to do a jump you already mastered at a younger age. 

Award
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 329


Posted: 10-03-2006, 10:45 PM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by doubletoe 
Doing a jump at a certain age is very different from learning that jump for the first time at that age, KWIM? I suspect that the number of injuries a skater tends to accumulate on the way to mastering a jump is what really takes its toll on the body, rather than continuing to do a jump you already mastered at a younger age.
 
 
That's definitely true. With aging, and accumulated wear and tear, there definitely will be a stage where things take a turn. It's important to know when to stop pushing too hard on the body. Yah....injuries and recovery time is a problem here. 

Rob Dean
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 207


Posted: 10-04-2006, 08:10 AM

 I don't know whether I really ought to put my two cents in or not, but here it goes:

After doing some pond skating when I was a kid, I got into this along with my son about 2 1/2 years ago after 20+ years off the ice. I'm now 45. My main motivations were to find something that would be fun and count as exercise, and to spend more time with #2 son. Viewed in that light, the whole thing has been a success beyond my wildest dreams. I'm down nearly 60 pounds, and have been holding that weight for the better part of a year now. That puts me in the normal range after being overweight for many years, and at the lowest sustained weight I've been at since I was in high school. #2 son and I have spent a lot of time together, and he's not embarrassed to be on the ice with me.

I'm probably in better shape now that I have ever been as an adult. Skating has given me legs that also allow me to view 60 miles on a bicycle at 15 mph as no big deal.

I don't progress at the rate that I'd like to in skating (who does?), but I can see that I am progressing. This week I'm a bit frustrated as I'm working on the pre-bronze moves seriously again, but my coach is pushing as she should be. I have revised my goals several times already in the 2+ years I've been at this, and I am now reluctant to attempt to guess where the limits of progress might be found. I know they are there, but I also know that they are somewhere beyond where I am now. (Of course, on one level deciding to aim at dance rather than freestyle is an acceptance of a limitation.)

So, does that put me in the defeatist camp, or the delusional?

Rob Dean 

Skate@Delaware
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3730


Posted: 10-04-2006, 11:16 AM

 Rob Dean, Dance can be just as dangerous as freestyle (if not more)!!! Do you see how close those skates are to each other? And how quick those moves have to be? I cringe when my dance coach asks me to do a move quicker and with neater (i.e. closer) feet. Then she pairs us up

So, is that defeatist? No. Delusional? No. Not in my book.

Congrats on your weight loss and increase in endurance!!!! 

phoenix
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 1714


Posted: 10-04-2006, 11:24 AM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Dean 

(Of course, on one level deciding to aim at dance rather than freestyle is an acceptance of a limitation.)

Rob Dean
 
 
**deeply offended dancer here**

Dance done to a high level is very physically demanding, just in a different way than freestyle. You don't have the pounding on your body from jump landings. But the strength & flexibility required to hold a deep knee bend with nice extension on deep edges at insane speed is surprising. I've also taken much worse falls in dance than in freestyle. 

samba
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 827


Posted: 10-04-2006, 11:57 AM

 I agree with Rob, the constant pounding that your back and the rest of your body takes every time you land a jump not the mention fall, is going to wear your body down a lot more quickly than the odd nasty fall taken in dance, I do both and I know which causes my body the most grief, after being signed off work, I have been advised that it might be a good idea to stick to the dance, as its still wonderful for stamina, ok its still dangerous but in the long term far less wearing on a 57 year old bod. Can't promise I will take the advice though. 

Skate@Delaware
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3730


Posted: 10-04-2006, 12:07 PM

 I don't know about that....the worst fall I had was in ice dance class doing a back progressive!!!!!

I caught the heel of my blade and fell backwards-flat on my sacrum and shoulders; narrowly missed hitting my head. You could hear the "thunk" all over the rink! I saw stars and it knocked my breath out. I lay on the ice trying to move and catch my breath for what seemed like forever.

After several trips to the chiropractor I was ok but it was a long time before I got the courage to do another back progressive; and I had to do it holding on...the fear monster had me in it's grip! I'm ok with them now, but that accident is always in the back of my mind and I think it still holds me back a bit.

I've fallen doing flips and other jumps and they don't frighten me re-doing them as much as that. 

doubletoe
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 4325


Posted: 10-04-2006, 12:58 PM

 Oooohhh Yeeeaahhh. . . My worst falls have been catching my blades while trying to do steps or edges, so I have the utmost respect for ice dancers! They risk not only catching their blades in the ice but catching their blades on someone else's blades! Yikes! 

Emberchyld
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 347


Posted: 10-04-2006, 01:28 PM

 I think what my teacher/coach said to me the other day fits--

He was saying that eventually I'd pull off an axel-- and I just made a face, since I know that I have a LOOOOOOOONG LONG way to go before I get to that point. And then he said (paraphrased, since I can't remember his exact words):

"Nothing is impossible... well, you just need reality. I mean, I want a porche and I want the space shuttle. I won't be getting a space shuttle, but I can get the porche. An axel for you is like that. You will probably never get a triple axel, starting at this age, but you will get the axel."

And you know what? I thought that was a great approach. As adults, we have our limitations, and maybe we'll never be like the elite kids, but the skills that we can aquire are still incredible if you really look at what we face.

Seriously, to people who can't even keep upright on skates and clutch the walls during public sessions, crossovers and 3-turns and 2-footed spins must look totally impossible. Whereas, they've finally started going from being Porches to Hyundais for me and most of us 

jazzpants
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 7053


Posted: 10-04-2006, 02:22 PM

 I sympathize with both samba and the ice dancers. I've limited my jumping practice and don't do off ice jumps practices just so I don't screw up my lower back. Just not enough (if any) cushion left on the lower back.

But my worst falls are all from doing edge and moves work. (Okay, mostly the collisions with other skaters... ) And I'm pretty sure my ice dancer guy has gone thru his share of nasty falls and crashes on the ice. 

cecealias
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 271


Posted: 10-04-2006, 02:58 PM

 I'm on the fence on worst falls... Probably the worst fall i've ever had was from nearly a standstill and tripping over a blade trying to hockey stop. That was when i was in learn to skate classes and i broke my ankle then. That was a freak fall where i injured myself badly because i tried to *stop myself* from falling. It was a big lesson - if you're gonna fall, FALL. don't try to stop it or else you'll injure yourself even more.

Since i've started seriously figure skating ( and by serious i mean taking private lessons and showing up at freestyle practice several times a week ) I have never broken anything, and even working on double jumps I feel are much safer than working on new moves really fast without any control. The stronger my edge control gets, the easier and more secure i feel when i launch myself into jumps at fast speeds. people think i'm nuts for spending hundreds of hours on moves in the field, but when you're fully grown and not a stick thin teen, i know i need all the help i can get controlling the edges so that i can move my body around safely. You know, it's just Newton's law - Force = mass x acceleration. The more mass you have the more force it takes to control (+/-) the accleration.

If we're talking about worst bruise, i'd say the worst bruises and falls are from the unexpected edges getting caught falls, when you're tired or least expecting it and suddently go down. Things like clicking your blades on crossovers at high speed or doing brackets and not being over your hip will throw you to the ice with almost no notice. I've had a few bad falls from learning jumps and spins when i first started working on them but as always that's because i forgot to do what my coach was telling me to do.

These days if i feel like i'm going to fall, i just let go and i don't care what people think. so what. you mentally "let go" on the way down then get up as fast as you can. it just hurts less. 

Rob Dean
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 207


Posted: 10-04-2006, 03:57 PM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix 
But the strength & flexibility required to hold a deep knee bend with nice extension on deep edges at insane speed is surprising.
 
 
No disagreement on that; although I'm not there yet (which was also a topic of last night's lesson). I also recognize that dance is scarcely risk free, but, for me, the fear associated with those risks is more manageable than the fear associated with jumping. So, while I didn't intend to be offensive, at least for me, it is an acceptance of some limits.

Rob 

Offline JimStanmore

  • Administrator
  • Intergalactic Ice Dancer
  • *****
  • Joined: Aug 2010
  • Location: Southern, NJ
  • Posts: 422
  • Total GOE: 383
  • Gender: Male
Re: Older Skaters & Limitations - fsf, 5837 Views, 277 Posts
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2010, 11:27:33 PM »
Award
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 329


Posted: 10-04-2006, 05:28 PM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by cecealias 
These days if i feel like i'm going to fall, i just let go and i don't care what people think. so what. you mentally "let go" on the way down then get up as fast as you can. it just hurts less.
 
 
The other people watching you fall usually have short memories anyway. And most of them have fallen before...probably many times themselves, so that's why they forget, or hardly make anything of it, because it's not uncommon or unusual for people to fall sometimes. 

Sonic
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 361


Posted: 10-04-2006, 06:05 PM

 With regards to falls - it's definitely the ones that take you by surprise like when you lose an edge or toepick yourself that are the worst - I guess it's because the fall is unexpected so you tense up.

I must have fallen about 7 times on Monday (in an hour, which is a big brave thing for me), I was working on flips and loops and view it as a good sign - it was because I was getting some power into the jumps. Yet I didn't really hurt myself at all, it was like I could feel I was off balance, knew I wasn't going to land on my feet and just relaxed.

With regards to limitations - sometimes you can surprise yourself.
When I stepped back on the ice after an 18 year break, I wondered how I ever lifted both feet off the ground, never mind had an Axel!

Yet, somehow, 9 months later I'm doing flips. I doubt whether I'll ever get an Axel again BUT for someone who didn't think she even get singles back, I guess it's not bad.....


S xx 

SkatingOnClouds
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 709


Posted: 10-05-2006, 04:22 AM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by skaternum 
It never ceases to amaze me how some people are willing to overlook blatant obvious physical facts. Not everyone can be a great skater. Not everyone can get an axel. The body changes as it ages -- and most of it for the worse. I don't understand what's so awful about admitting these things. There's a difference between positivism and delusion.
 
 
You are so right. As I said before, I have realised that what pushed my buttons about what Dianne's coach said was really about my own fears.

I am coming to accept it is okay to admit that my body can't do what it used to. That I need to work within physical limitations while working to reduce the limitation. It doesn't mean I won't achieve what I want to achieve, just that I have to be sensible about working toward my goals.

I firmly believe in not placing limitations on myself by setting some ultimate goal. I will achieve being the best skater I can be, whatever that ends up being. 

BatikatII
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 555


Posted: 10-05-2006, 09:29 AM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic 
Yet, somehow, 9 months later I'm doing flips. I doubt whether I'll ever get an Axel again BUT for someone who didn't think she even get singles back, I guess it's not bad.....


S xx
 
 

Sonic - Did you watch the level 3-5 ladies group (age category 2) at Lee Valley last weekend? My friend who only started learning to skate at age 30 (having never skated before ) landed 2 axels in the warm-up (even if she didn't quite manage it in the competition itself). If you've had an axel before you will definitely be able to get one again. In the men's competition at least one of the guys had an axel that he first acquired in his late 50's and he had the most amazing sit spin ever (and he is over 60 now).

I started at 38 having been on the ice only a couple of times in my life, ever and did dance only for a few years. After switching to Free (compulsory dance bores me rigid unless with a partner and we have no men at our rink) I now have all my singles up to Flip and am working on Lutz and have every intention of one day trying for an axel - despite being overweight and unfit and having back and knee problems! I didn't compete (at adult championships) this year because of a back injury in the summer but last year I won bronze at elementary (level 1 & 2) (35- 50 years). There's no reason why you couldn't achieve axel and doubles - barring injury of course.

Having done both and competed in both, I would have to say ice dance is 'easier' to do than Free although it is hard to do well. They are very different animals but with ice dance you can do the low level dances and enjoy them without necessarily doing them very well, whereas with Free to do even a low level competition you need to have the jumps and it is a lot more scary having to leave the ice with both feet!

I am definitely a much better skater than I was when I was a child - since I never skated as a child! As far as whether you can be a better skater than when you were a chld I guess it all depends how good a skater you were then. If just a recreational skater then there is no doubt you can improve on that as an adult but if you were a kid skater with axels and doubles/triples then coming back many years later it is probably unlikley that you can get back to that same level as you will probably have less time to spend skatig and all sorts of body issues to deal with (flexibility, injury, weight etc). You'll still likely be a much better skater than anyone who did not start as a child (given similar time and training). 

sk8_4fun
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 330


Posted: 10-05-2006, 11:17 AM

 for me, I feel Its all academic. By definition, as an adult learner, I'll never know what I could have achieved if i'd started 30 years ago. I have nothing to compare it to, so every achievement is a bonus! My coach treats the adults the same as the kids, she assumes you can achieve anything! 

Casey
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1309


Posted: 10-05-2006, 02:34 PM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by skaternum 
Ya know, I just have to disagree with this. Most people can go farther than they think, but everyone has limitations. I'm all for a positive attitude, but it is not a true statement that anybody can do anything.
 
 
And why not? I'm not saying I can go out and do an axel tomorrow, but if I really want to accomplish that I can, with time and effort. And so can you. If you don't want to or are setting yourself up to fail in advance that's another story entirely. I don't believe there are any limits that there aren't ways to work past with the right methods and time.

Granted, injuries, how we take care of ourselves, and priorities in life affect things, but I would much rather focus on what's possible if unlikely than the average.

I'm a bit of a hippacrite in that I don't always think as positively as I should, and it's most likely that I never will get an axel, but if I don't it will be because I didn't give it my all...not because I didn't start skating at 5. 

Casey
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1309


Posted: 10-05-2006, 02:36 PM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by Skate@Delaware 
I was going through a period when I had "do-it-now-itis" because I was feeling my skating biological clock ticking away....I was afraid if I didn't hurry and test boom-boom-boom and do this, that, or the other thing, time would pass me by and I'd never get the chance again (I have health problems and sometimes I freak out because they can change your whole perspective on life in general). I've calmed down a bit from this. I'm still driven but I've become focused and driven to do certain things in a more timely manner.
 
 
I know exactly what you mean. I have a hard time with too much time passing...and a bad habit of thinking all is lost if I miss one time goal... 

miraclegro
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 576


Posted: 10-05-2006, 02:42 PM

 I had a fantastic coach who moved away, but he never told me anything really negative, and pushed me on certain things, but also had a highly respectible awareness of safety and injury on my behalf. Because of that, i knew he wouldn't push me beyond what was safe for me at the time. That, to me is a bigger concern than any of the other. I still hold him in high regard because of that. 

Sonic
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 361


Posted: 10-05-2006, 02:43 PM

 Quote:
I was going through a period when I had "do-it-now-itis" because I was feeling my skating biological clock ticking away....I was afraid if I didn't hurry and test boom-boom-boom and do this, that, or the other thing, time would pass me by and I'd never get the chance again (I have health problems and sometimes I freak out because they can change your whole perspective on life in general). I've calmed down a bit from this. I'm still driven but I've become focused and driven to do certain things in a more timely manner. 
 
Quote:
I know exactly what you mean. I have a hard time with too much time passing...and a bad habit of thinking all is lost if I miss one time goal... 
 
I know exactly what you mean. And if you've skated before, I think that feeling is even worse.

BatikatII - in answer to your post, no, unfortunately I missed the level 3-5 group. You may be right about the axel, but I'm putting that idea 'on ice' ('scuse the pun, lol! ) for a while. For the time being I'm just aiming to get decent single jumps - hopefully get Flip and Loop decent by end of November and start working on Lutz before the end of the year.

S xxx 

Casey
Registered User
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1309


Posted: 10-05-2006, 03:13 PM

 Quote:
Originally Posted by Award 
That's definitely true. With aging, and accumulated wear and tear, there definitely will be a stage where things take a turn. It's important to know when to stop pushing too hard on the body. Yah....injuries and recovery time is a problem here.
 
 
As a lot of guys I used to work with at the bottom rung of the ladder used to say, "work smart, not hard". We all have our issues and limits, but there's more than one way to skin a cat, and some ways are definitely easier. Sometimes the hardest part is conceiving them.

I can't think of many jumps I've ever landed skating that I'd consider hard (as in on the knees or whatever). But I was at a ballet class recently where the instructor was telling the class that they needed to take off and land in a plie (that is, with knees bending both to propel the jump up and to cushion the landing), so that it looked more graceful and was easier on the joints. I realized as some people had a really hard time with this that I've simply never considered not bending to distribute the impact of a jump landing...it's just something I do "naturally" (more likely, something I learned on my own without thinking too much about it).

We all have things that we pick up easily and other things that we're blind to until we really think about it or somebody points them out to us. If something is hurting or too hard, then I'm not saying continue trying the same way endlessly. But I do believe there's always a path to the goal - the tricky part is finding and following it. 


  Information   


 
ForumPilot automatically downloaded 100 posts in this thread. You may want to use one of the options below:

Download. Download the rest of the posts in this thread.
Download & Subscribe. ForumPilot will download all the available posts in this thread and will automatically download further replies. 


 

Offline jjane45

  • Clean Skate
  • ********
  • Joined: Aug 2010
  • Location: Chicago, IL
  • Posts: 3,880
  • Total GOE: 161
  • Gender: Female
Re: Older Skaters & Limitations - fsf, 5837 Views, 277 Posts
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2011, 12:15:57 AM »
Such a long thread with brilliant ideas. The complete version is here:

http://skating.zachariahs.com/skatingforums-onice/www.skatingforums.com/archive/index.php/t-21697.html